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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    Bowie, Maryland
    Quote Originally Posted by Slackerb View Post
    Part of it is that Mason is a smaller piece of a good team, while Leslie is the star of a worse team.

    Also, Leslie has more potential and is a bit better than Mason at similar stages of their career.
    Plus no one on this board or as a Duke fan really believed Mason should go Pro after this past season. He truly was not ready. He was inconsistent at best. He needs to learn to be more of a post player and also needs to work on free throw shooting. He has the athletic ability to do well at the next level but the low post moves need to improve over the next year. That will be the only way he gets any playing time at the next level.

    The only thing that would have benefited Mason leaving this year is the weak class that is going into the draft. There is also no doubt that his brother, Marshall, coming this year definitely increased the chances of his returning.

    If he can improve over the next year leaps and bounds then that will only help improve our recruiting of big men in the future.
    The Terrapin Assassin

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Slackerb View Post
    Part of it is that Mason is a smaller piece of a good team, while Leslie is the star of a worse team.

    Also, Leslie has more potential and is a bit better than Mason at similar stages of their career.
    Not fighting words, but maybe debatable at the margins. Mason is, surely, a big piece of a very good team expecting to become an excellent one. And Leslie might well become a star, but NCSt has some good players, including Harrow, Brown, Wood, Howell, possibly Painter. I guess it's true Leslie, just possibly Harrow, are the potential stars over there.

    Potential? Maybe NBA guys have soured on Mason, though I doubt it; and if not, one would think Mason's potential is more potent than Leslie's. They both gotta get better, more consistent, play smarter, and undoubtedly will next season. Appears they both know that.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Not ready for a fight but to paraphrase "the General" Mason is also a student.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Since we have Miles, Mason and Marshall, shouldn't they be willing to change their name to Plummmlee?

    Seems only fair.
    Actually, I believe the plural is Plumli.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by Jderf View Post
    Actually, I believe the plural is Plumli.
    2008-2009: Plumlee
    2009-2001: Plummlee
    2011-2012: Plummmlee
    2012-2013: Plumlee (projected)



    Although if several pods of Plumli got together, would that be a Plumlus?

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    There's one MP to rebound, one to score and one to set picks. What more could anyone ask for? I know but Dwight Howard doesn't have any elligibility left.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by airowe View Post
    I think the bolded answered your own question. Mason never stated he was considering going pro, Leslie did. Mason's decision was never in question.
    I saw more than one article, on more than one site about Mason leaning towards going pro. He also never publicly said he was returning for sure either. With all the news about Barnes coming back, I sure would like for someone to write something about Mason.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by Slackerb View Post
    Part of it is that Mason is a smaller piece of a good team, while Leslie is the star of a worse team.

    Also, Leslie has more potential and is a bit better than Mason at similar stages of their career.
    Whoah there partner. The only thing Leslie was a "star" of as a freshman was poor attitude and poor work ethic. Leslie was not even close to being a star. And I fully admit to viewing Leslie as possibly the 2nd most talented freshman coming into the ACC last year. The guy has a lot of skills, but he disappointed in a huge way as a freshman. He may turn into a star as a college player but a lot has to change for that to happen.

    Mason is a better player right now, and it's not really close. No way I would trade Mason straight up to NC State for Leslie. Mason will be a big part of what Duke does this year.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    Whoah there partner. The only thing Leslie was a "star" of as a freshman was poor attitude and poor work ethic. Leslie was not even close to being a star. And I fully admit to viewing Leslie as possibly the 2nd most talented freshman coming into the ACC last year. The guy has a lot of skills, but he disappointed in a huge way as a freshman. He may turn into a star as a college player but a lot has to change for that to happen.

    Mason is a better player right now, and it's not really close. No way I would trade Mason straight up to NC State for Leslie. Mason will be a big part of what Duke does this year.
    If you look at the stats, CJ produced more last year, but numbers hardly tell the whole story. The guy seems to have issues being a good teammate. IMHO, if he can improve in this area, his upside is higher than Mason's. Mason is a big and athletic kid, but until his offensive skill's improve, his upside will not be realized.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by kong123 View Post
    If you look at the stats, CJ produced more last year, but numbers hardly tell the whole story. The guy seems to have issues being a good teammate. IMHO, if he can improve in this area, his upside is higher than Mason's. Mason is a big and athletic kid, but until his offensive skill's improve, his upside will not be realized.
    I'm not trying to be disputatious [so help me], but I'm not quite following your logic here. Maybe there are 2 related but quite distinct issues: (1) Which player has the higher "upside," if both achieve their near-very-highest potential [= upside]? (2) Which player, over time, is the more likely to actually achieve his upside?

    The way I read your post, it seems that you think Leslie is the answer to question (2), but that you don't quite address question (1).

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by kong123 View Post
    If you look at the stats, CJ produced more last year, but numbers hardly tell the whole story. The guy seems to have issues being a good teammate. IMHO, if he can improve in this area, his upside is higher than Mason's. Mason is a big and athletic kid, but until his offensive skill's improve, his upside will not be realized.
    Stats do not always tell the story. They certainly don't in the case of these two players. Again, I like Leslie's skillset, but his attitude has to improve. It is all up to him. He can be a really good college player if he wants to be. As for the NBA, he is slender with a suspect outside shot. There are a ton of guys in the NBDL today with similar size. Leslie will have to greatly improve his outside shot or gain a lot of strength to have success in the NBA.

    Mason has an NBA type body already, and is a great rebounder. His shortcomings are mainly with ability to score the basketball. Which hurts him, obviously, but he can rebound and defend.

  12. #32
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    Jun 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    I'm not trying to be disputatious [so help me], but I'm not quite following your logic here. Maybe there are 2 related but quite distinct issues: (1) Which player has the higher "upside," if both achieve their near-very-highest potential [= upside]? (2) Which player, over time, is the more likely to actually achieve his upside?

    The way I read your post, it seems that you think Leslie is the answer to question (2), but that you don't quite address question (1).
    I think CJ has the offensive skills to be more successful in the NBA. I believe the only thing CJ can improve on in college is his attitude. He would improve his game more by sitting on an NBA bench.

    Mason has a big body that can insure a long career in the NBA. There are a lot of guys in the NBA that get PT because they can play defense. Maybe Mason will be one of those guys?

    in the end, Mason may have a longer NBA career than CJ, but ultimately that may have less to do with their ability to play basketball and more with their ability to get along with other people.

  13. #33
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    Feb 2008
    Location
    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by kong123 View Post
    I think CJ has the offensive skills to be more successful in the NBA. I believe the only thing CJ can improve on in college is his attitude. He would improve his game more by sitting on an NBA bench.

    Mason has a big body that can insure a long career in the NBA. There are a lot of guys in the NBA that get PT because they can play defense. Maybe Mason will be one of those guys?

    in the end, Mason may have a longer NBA career than CJ, but ultimately that may have less to do with their ability to play basketball and more with their ability to get along with other people.
    I agree Leslie has scoring ability in the college game. I disagree on what he could improve on in college though. I think he could improve a lot on defense, court awareness, passing, communication, and just playing harder.

    At the NBA level, do you think he could an effective scorer? He has great quickness and length which are positives, but can he improve his outside shot, and add enough strength to be able to score effectively as a slasher?

    I was actually shocked that Leslie did not runaway with ACC Rook of The Year after Kyrie's injury and HB's slow start. I felt he was going to be a stud. But, he just never really impressed on a consistent basis, which is why I question how good he ends up being in both college and the NBA.

  14. #34
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    Jun 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    I agree Leslie has scoring ability in the college game. I disagree on what he could improve on in college though. I think he could improve a lot on defense, court awareness, passing, communication, and just playing harder.

    At the NBA level, do you think he could an effective scorer? He has great quickness and length which are positives, but can he improve his outside shot, and add enough strength to be able to score effectively as a slasher?

    I was actually shocked that Leslie did not runaway with ACC Rook of The Year after Kyrie's injury and HB's slow start. I felt he was going to be a stud. But, he just never really impressed on a consistent basis, which is why I question how good he ends up being in both college and the NBA.
    There are a lot of players that seem not to meet expectations. I believe CJ needs to be in a more positive and a more structured situation than he currently is in Raleigh. While it can be normally expected that a kid can improve defense and certain offensive skills in college, a new coach and an unstable fanbase make this tougher for a kid with a selfish mindset.

  15. #35
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    Feb 2008
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    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by kong123 View Post
    There are a lot of players that seem not to meet expectations. I believe CJ needs to be in a more positive and a more structured situation than he currently is in Raleigh. While it can be normally expected that a kid can improve defense and certain offensive skills in college, a new coach and an unstable fanbase make this tougher for a kid with a selfish mindset.
    Ok. I see where you are coming from a little better now. I normally am the first to defend a college freshman who underperformed, and stress we need to give them time to develop, so maybe I am being unfair to Leslie.

    Based on his history, State's new coach seems to have what it takes to coach a team up and have success, but I do see where you are coming from with Leslie appearing to be somewhat of a selfish player, and how that can be a detriment to his development. Add in the volatile fanbase, and a new staff that maybe some do not have faith in, and it could mean Leslie never puts it together there.

  16. #36
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    Feb 2008
    Location
    Charlotte, North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by kong123 View Post
    There are a lot of players that seem not to meet expectations. I believe CJ needs to be in a more positive and a more structured situation than he currently is in Raleigh. While it can be normally expected that a kid can improve defense and certain offensive skills in college, a new coach and an unstable fanbase make this tougher for a kid with a selfish mindset.
    I'll never understand the stereotype of the NC State fanbase as "unstable." It's an extremely loyal fanbase. Are they frustrated and impatient with the basketball program's inability to compete with UNC and Duke? Sure...just as the Duke or UNC fanbase would be if our program found itself 3rd wheel in the Triangle. I agree completely with Kong's assessment that the instability in the coaching situation at State makes it tougher for the young players at State (particularly a kid with maturity issues)...but the NC State fanbase is actually quite supportive of the players. For comparison, might I point out the IC board meltdowns about some of the players on the 2009-2010 UNC team...

  17. #37
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    Feb 2008
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    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by davekay1971 View Post
    I'll never understand the stereotype of the NC State fanbase as "unstable." It's an extremely loyal fanbase. Are they frustrated and impatient with the basketball program's inability to compete with UNC and Duke? Sure...just as the Duke or UNC fanbase would be if our program found itself 3rd wheel in the Triangle. I agree completely with Kong's assessment that the instability in the coaching situation at State makes it tougher for the young players at State (particularly a kid with maturity issues)...but the NC State fanbase is actually quite supportive of the players. For comparison, might I point out the IC board meltdowns about some of the players on the 2009-2010 UNC team...
    I think it is more about "perception" than anything else. There is a lunatic fringe element in any fanbase. Your point about IC is very valid. For whatever reason, State's lunatic fringe seems to get far more publicity than any other. Why national writers like Goodman and Parrish chose to make a big deal out of it, is beyond me, and only gave the reputation more legs.

    I agree it is unfair, but have no idea how State overcomes it. I mentioned this in the Harrow thread, but it does not help that Harrow spoke out against a part of the fanbase last season in his Facebook postings either.

    State is nowhere near the "worst job" in College Basketball, yet those writers wrote that, so some believe it. Just a bizarre situation.

  18. #38
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    Jun 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by davekay1971 View Post
    but the NC State fanbase is actually quite supportive of the players. For comparison, might I point out the IC board meltdowns about some of the players on the 2009-2010 UNC team...

    look, every fan base can be a bit unstable. Whether the instability is quick meltdown or a longer one like UNC had in 2009-2010, no one is immune to it. having said that, when a fan base has unrealistic expectations, a program that continues to lose against their biggest rivals, and has major issues finding a coach that they want that actually wants them back- I say NCSU is a special case. Raleigh is a toxic place right now to play college basketball.

  19. #39
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    Mar 2008
    Location
    Atlanta, GA/Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by kong123 View Post
    look, every fan base can be a bit unstable. Whether the instability is quick meltdown or a longer one like UNC had in 2009-2010, no one is immune to it. having said that, when a fan base has unrealistic expectations, a program that continues to lose against their biggest rivals, and has major issues finding a coach that they want that actually wants them back- I say NCSU is a special case. Raleigh is a toxic place right now to play college basketball.
    I don't believe Raleigh to be a toxic place. They just need to win. It hurts to see a program at the bottom of a weak ACC and I totally understand the angst of State fans.

  20. #40
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    Apr 2011
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    The internet currently.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratrat View Post
    I haven't seen anyone talking about Mason and his obvious decision to stay at Duke. I wonder why he never announced his decision to the Blue Devil Nation. The N&O made a big deal about Leslie and I surely believe Mason's decision is news worthy.
    Anybody?
    Quote Originally Posted by Slackerb View Post
    Part of it is that Mason is a smaller piece of a good team, while Leslie is the star of a worse team.

    Also, Leslie has more potential and is a bit better than Mason at similar stages of their career.
    Slackerb I can see why you answered how you did to the original starting post. Basically you were saying that there is a larger talent disparity between Leslie & the majority of his teammates than Mason, who has equally as talented teammates.

    MP2 and Leslie have different games, whilst MP2 next year will be the anchor on defense of a potential top 10 preseason team (I personally think ranked # 5), Leslie will have a lot to prove on what is shaping as a dysfunctional NC State squad. I agree that Leslie is a little more polished offensively during their respective Freshman years. I watched quite a few State games last year and whilst Leslie had many 'wow' moments offensively, his defense, particularly the ability to rotate effectively, was poor. So many times the ring was left unprotected by either Smith or Leslie's inability to get back and block a shot or take a charge.

    I really hope MP2's offense picks up and this year we see a more rounded player; having said that I'll take ten plus rebounds and two and half blocks also

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