Alex Murphy Enrolls Early!

[CDu]

We are bringing a bucket of freshmen (6?), we have 2 rising sophs who have little game experience, we lose our 2 senior AA leaders, we have 4 rising juniors who are still searching for their roles on the team and to become impact players and leaders, our sole rising senior has been wildly inconsistent.

Boy, I wish there was some way the staff could get the team a little bit of extra time together, for on the court and off-court work and bonding.

Seems like Coach K is always a step ahead. Maybe its that West Point logistics and leadership training. Preseason trips generally give teams an advantage, but Duke seems to get the absolute maximum out of the trips. China will be so useful for this group, as well as a boon for the Duke brand (and the business school). Kudos again to Coach K and his staff.

Welcome Alex! Great choice in coming early to be a part of this next wave. Enjoy the ride!

Agreed on all counts. The team is fairly green, and the players with experience have been very inconsistent. The preseason trips will be very helpful in getting this team to figure itself out on the court. As will the non-conference season and the early part of the ACC season.

[duke79]

Interesting side note in the "Projo.com" article (linked on the main page) on Alex Murphy leaving high school early to enroll at Duke (and I don't know if their information is correct). The article states that Alex has left St. Mark's School in Massachusetts (my alma mater) and enrolled at the public high school in the Rhode Island town where his parents live, so that he could "graduate" on time to enroll at Duke. Not that it really matters, I guess, but it raises the question of whether or not St. Mark's School had agreed to let him graduate a year early and whether Duke required him to officially graduate from a high school before allowing him to enroll a year early - even though he will have finished four years of high school this Spring, having stayed back in the 9th grade when he transferred to St. Mark's. I don't know if Duke has a policy of allowing prospective students to enroll as Duke students if they have not officially graduated from high school. I'm thinking that Duke does not and I'm also guessing that St. Mark's School did not agree to allow Alex to graduate early, which is why he has apparently transferred to the public high school in his home town. Frankly, having attended St. Mark's myself and then Duke, it is extremely rare (if ever) for St. Mark's to allow any students to graduate early - I can think of only one case that I knew of - one of my classmates who was the smartest human being I've ever encountered was admitted to Harvard after his Junior year in high school and he left early to attend Harvard (and skipped his Freshman year at Harvard because of his AP scores), although, if my memory serves me right, I believe that St. Mark's did not give him his high school diploma until the following year when his original class graduated. I vaguely remember him coming back to pick up his diploma, after his first year at Harvard. Again, I realize this is totally irrelevant to the fact that Alex Murphy is coming to Duke next year but an interesting side note, nonetheless.

[gwlaw99]

I'm not sure how you feel about the group, but as they are so young it's quite possible that like UNC in the 2010-11 season

Call me crazy, but I see Cook as our Kendell Marshall and starting point guard by January.

[CDu]

Call me crazy, but I see Cook as our Kendell Marshall and starting point guard by January.

He certainly could be. He could also be our freshman version of Sean Dockery (or anywhere in between). As with many of the players, there's quite a lot of uncertainty.

[COYS]

Certainly there are any number of teams that have made a title run without a true star/ magnificent player. Of course, defining a "magnificent" player can be difficult a priori because it is often the fact that a player was in the Final Four that makes us remember him as an elite college player- plus it usually bumps up his draft status which factors into our definition of elite. But just thinking back to the National Champions over the last decade or so, they usually have either a truly elite player (Melo/ Syracuse) or a couple of top first round draft picks. Duke last year (and maybe Maryland) were the exceptions that overcame the absence of an elite star by having lots of very solid, experienced talent and a true sense of team. And, really, Singler last year wasn't that far outside the elite category. In any case, none of this rules out Duke next year- Rivers may really shine and there is clearly enough talent around him to make a run.

Time for me to sing the praises of Scheyer once more. Scheyer was definitely an elite player, last year. Without the odd traveling call on Singler in the Final when he started to slip and quickly passed to Scheyer who knocked down a three that didn't count, it would almost certainly have been Scheyer and not Singler who won FF MOP. Scheyer's offensive rating was top 10 in the country (for the second time in his career and third year in a row in the top 20) even with the additional ball handling duties he undertook in 2010. The fact that his rating stayed so high even after suffering through a shooting slump in the mid-season is a testament to all the other things he did (assists, hit free throws, value the ball, and basically make plays for others). He was an elite defender even if his strength wasn't in flashy on-the-ball pressure in the open court. His court sense is in the Battier-realm. No, he didn't become a high lottery pick, obviously, and his path to the NBA has been incredibly bumpy thus far. But Scheyer was definitely an elite player last year.

Ok, so back to Murphy =).

[CDu]

Time for me to sing the praises of Scheyer once more. Scheyer was definitely an elite player, last year. Without the odd traveling call on Singler in the Final when he started to slip and quickly passed to Scheyer who knocked down a three that didn't count, it would almost certainly have been Scheyer and not Singler who won FF MOP. Scheyer's offensive rating was top 10 in the country (for the second time in his career and third year in a row in the top 20) even with the additional ball handling duties he undertook in 2010. The fact that his rating stayed so high even after suffering through a shooting slump in the mid-season is a testament to all the other things he did (assists, hit free throws, value the ball, and basically make plays for others). He was an elite defender even if his strength wasn't in flashy on-the-ball pressure in the open court. His court sense is in the Battier-realm. No, he didn't become a high lottery pick, obviously, and his path to the NBA has been incredibly bumpy thus far. But Scheyer was definitely an elite player last year.

Ok, so back to Murphy =).

At the risk of speaking for ChicagoHeel, I think the poster meant "big-time NBA prospect" and not elite college player. You don't win a title without elite college players. The two exceptions in Heel's example (Maryland and Duke) both still had elite college players (Dixon was All-American caliber).

[johnb]

Interesting side note in the "Projo.com" article (linked on the main page) on Alex Murphy leaving high school early to enroll at Duke (and I don't know if their information is correct). The article states that Alex has left St. Mark's School in Massachusetts (my alma mater) and enrolled at the public high school in the Rhode Island town where his parents live, so that he could "graduate" on time to enroll at Duke. Not that it really matters, I guess, but it raises the question of whether or not St. Mark's School had agreed to let him graduate a year early and whether Duke required him to officially graduate from a high school before allowing him to enroll a year early - even though he will have finished four years of high school this Spring,

That factoid struck me as well. It seems unlikely that Duke has an inelastic policy of not taking students who don't get hs diplomas. My read is that Murphy wanted the diploma, the private school refused to make an exception about requirements, and so he went back to his home high school that accepted his 4 years of hs credits at the 2 other schools. I also went to a St. Mark's (though one in Texas), and a guy from my class also left school a year early. The school didn't give him a diploma, despite his being first in the class at the time (narrowly ahead of a guy who went on to get a PhD in math from Princeton). I think their decision embittered my classmate, who has gone on to do good things.

Not knowing any of the details, I feel free to make them up, and so it would seem to me that the school made a mistake in not granting an exception. While it might appear to indicate academic rigor, it's not as if they would have to make frequent exceptions. Like the smart guy in your hs class (and mine), guys with his talent level don't come along very often, and it would have been very easy for them to say, "ok, you can walk with your class at graduation and get an official diploma once you've taken, say, the 2 semesters of English that are currently keeping you from graduating." That does set a precedent (which was already in place with guy who went to Harvard), but they can certainly evaluate on a case-by-case basis the next time one of the top 15 high players in the country decides to attend their school and opt to graduate a year earlier than planned but still after 4 years of high school, a tiny likelihood that just went down by virtue of their apparent intransigence.

[oldnavy]

I look forward to seeing this team grow as well. Usually when we have depth we tend to pressure on defense more which leads to fast breaks. I hope to see a lot of that next year. Also, the competition during practice should help everyone get better.

I think Seth Curry may be the next player that steps up. He could have a Nolan like Junior year...

[JimBD]

I'm excited about Alex coming to Duke next year and very optimistic about DeAndre. I hope Alex and DeAndre will both be significant contributors to Duke next year.

As for redshirting, I have not heard any legitimate reason why Alex might redshirt his first year. I have heard arguments that a year of redshirting would give him a chance to adjust to college, develop his body and basketball skills, and play against top competition in practice. Well, he can do all of that whether or not he redshirts. Unless I'm missing something, the only reason for redshirting would be if Alex thinks he might be at Duke five years, and redshirting would give him an extra year of eligibility. But in my opinion, if he is as good as I've heard and a potential NBA draftee, he is not likely to be at Duke for five years.

[Matches]

I submit to you the understatement of the year.

All in all, I agree with your sentiments. I'm not saying we won't be deep, but I've been around the block a bit too many times to automatically assume 10 or 11 guys are all going to play in each and every game. Historical precedent is not on the side of that assumption when it comes to Duke.

I don't disagree - I don't expect 10-11 guys to be playing by March, either, but K will have more options than he has since at least that '98 season. It should be fun to watch things shake out.

I do expect we'll be back to a pressing, running style since foul problems won't be quite as big a deal...

[gwlaw99]

I'm excited about Alex coming to Duke next year and very optimistic about DeAndre. I hope Alex and DeAndre will both be significant contributors to Duke next year.

As for redshirting, I have not heard any legitimate reason why Alex might redshirt his first year. I have heard arguments that a year of redshirting would give him a chance to adjust to college, develop his body and basketball skills, and play against top competition in practice. Well, he can do all of that whether or not he redshirts. Unless I'm missing something, the only reason for redshirting would be if Alex thinks he might be at Duke five years, and redshirting would give him an extra year of eligibility. But in my opinion, if he is as good as I've heard and a potential NBA draftee, he is not likely to be at Duke for five years.

Good points! Do you think those arguments apply to Marshall though?

[Spam Filter]

How many times have we had the discussion of how deep we're going to be this year

Seems like an annual off season proclamation "We're REALLY going to be deep, this time we mean it."

I remain skeptical until I see it.

[Rudy]

As for redshirting, I have not heard any legitimate reason why Alex might redshirt his first year. I have heard arguments that a year of redshirting would give him a chance to adjust to college, develop his body and basketball skills, and play against top competition in practice. Well, he can do all of that whether or not he redshirts. Unless I'm missing something, the only reason for redshirting would be if Alex thinks he might be at Duke five years, and redshirting would give him an extra year of eligibility. But in my opinion, if he is as good as I've heard and a potential NBA draftee, he is not likely to be at Duke for five years.

When was the last time a Duke player red-shirted for a non-medical reason?

[Herbie]

With Murhphy's move up a year, doesn't that mean that a Daniels' commit would take the last scholly for next year, effectively ending any and all speculation that Kyrie would change his mind and come back for next year?

[geraldsneighbor]

With Murhphy's move up a year, doesn't that mean that a Daniels' commit would take the last scholly for next year, effectively ending any and all speculation that Kyrie would change his mind and come back for next year?

Yes, that would officially definitely finally mean Kyrie can absolutely not return.

[tommy]

How many times have we had the discussion of how deep we're going to be this year

Seems like an annual off season proclamation "We're REALLY going to be deep, this time we mean it."

I remain skeptical until I see it.

You didn't see it this past year? We had nine guys that played significant minutes in key games. Confidently going to your ninth man? That is a deep team.

[_Gary]

I'm not sure we had a magnificent player in o9-10, yet we won it all. We had very good players in Scheyer, Smith and Singler and Zoubek did magnifcent things at the end and Lance was very good. We also had the Plumlees in roles and Kelly. Not sure it fits the idea of a team with magnificent players. Sometimes being lucky to nnot having other magnificent teams is enough. This year was one of those, but we slipped up.

You know, I was going to work into that short post a quick comment about "exceptions" to the rule - and clearly I should have. In a one and done tournament there's always a measure of "luck" involved (both good and bad depending on one's perspective and rooting interest) and there's no doubt that last year when we won we didn't necessarily have a magnificent player. Having said all that, I do think the combo of all our guys were playing at about the highest level they could and as a group they performed magnificently. But yes, there are always qualifiers and exceptions.

[InSpades]

Yes, that would officially definitely finally mean Kyrie can absolutely not return.

That's not entirely true. He (or another teammate) could always pay his own way ala Lee Melchionni. If only there was a teammate whose dad maybe had a high profile job that paid him millions of dollars a year... It's an unlikely situation but not entirely unheard of (though Melchionni did it because of a stupid NCAA rule, not because we had too many scholarship players).

[airowe]

That's not entirely true. He (or another teammate) could always pay his own way ala Lee Melchionni. If only there was a teammate who's dad maybe had a high profile job that paid him millions of dollars a year... It's an unlikely situation but not entirely unheard of (though Melchionni did it because of a stupid NCAA rule, not because we had too many scholarship players).

That's not the case anymore. As the 5/8 rule changed, so did the rule allowing recruited players to pay their own way. Because all of our players were recruited, they count against the scholarship totals, regardless of whether they're given free education.

That said, if Kyrie wants to play at Duke next year, he'll play at Duke next year. I think he plays professionally.

[yancem]

That's not the case anymore. As the 5/8 rule changed, so did the rule allowing recruited players to pay their own way. Because all of our players were recruited, they count against the scholarship totals, regardless of whether they're given free education.

That said, if Kyrie wants to play at Duke next year, he'll play at Duke next year. I think he plays professionally.

If a school can't have more than 13 "recruited" players (regardless if the school pays or the player pays) then how could Irving return if we sign Daniels? Would Duke ask Murphy to wait a year or would a current player possibly lose their scholarship? Or could one of the freshman pay their own way and red shirt or only practice with the team while being a team manager? I don't see how that would work. Not that I see Irving coming back but stranger things have happened and I would hate for him to decide he wanted to come back but not be able to. Of course, I would also hate to say no to Daniels on the small possibility that Irving changes his mind.