Bob Knight tells it like it might be

[rthomas]

http://www.mrsec.com/2011/04/knight-...s-last-spring/

Coach Knight is catching it a bit for saying this:“Kentucky, year before last, started five players in the NCAA Tournament that had not been to class that semester,” Knight said. “And that’s that one-and-done philosophy that we have now.”

I would probably believe this statement, but I can't imagine it being true.

[superdave]

http://www.mrsec.com/2011/04/knight-...s-last-spring/

Coach Knight is catching it a bit for saying this:“Kentucky, year before last, started five players in the NCAA Tournament that had not been to class that semester,” Knight said. “And that’s that one-and-done philosophy that we have now.”

I would probably believe this statement, but I can't imagine it being true.

Perhaps Knight should stop short of apologizing and simply say his facts are wrong but that Calipari does not stress academics. Evidence of that would be three one-and-done classes in a row.

Wont UK start losing scholarships when graduation rates inevitably dip too low?

[shoutingncu]

I would probably believe this statement, but I can't imagine it being true.

That's because it's not. Patrick Patterson was a junior. Did he really stop going to class? And reports said John Wall did, as well. Don't know about the others.

[Bluedog]

That's because it's not. Patrick Patterson was a junior. Did he really stop going to class? And reports said John Wall did, as well. Don't know about the others.

Patterson and John Wall were both reportedly good students and went to class. Wall had the best GPA on the team first semester (I think near a 4.0), and Patterson was always a good student. Cousins, despite his on court demeanor, was reportedly still academically eligible for his sophomore year at UK. Bledsoe and Orton on the other hand...So, really only 2/5 stopped going to class/couldn't handle the coursework. Orton left UK's campus completely before the semester was over and was working out in California.

I'd say that it's more up to the individual in Cal's system. It's not the Calipari says you should ignore academics, but probably didn't stress it enough to push those borderline students to put in the extra effort to do coursework when their plan was to go to the NBA at the end of the year anyways. Not saying that's the way it should be, but to say all 5 of them stopped going to class seems inaccurate.

[Kfanarmy]

Patterson and John Wall were both reportedly good students and went to class. Wall had the best GPA on the team first semester (I think near a 4.0), and Patterson was always a good student. Cousins, despite his on court demeanor, was reportedly still academically eligible for his sophomore year at UK. Bledsoe and Orton on the other hand...So, really only 2/5 stopped going to class/couldn't handle the coursework. Orton left UK's campus completely before the semester was over and was working out in California.

Odd...there is not one thing here that would tend to prove/disprove whether these guys attended class during the spring semester. Your statement doesn't address spring semester attendance at all. I can't find anything online, aside from assertions from those with interest on the school/students side, to prove attendance. It would seem easy for the university to release records (a dated/signed test, or writing requirement, photo, etc. that these folks were in class) and prove attendance. I tend to side with the players here, but am mystified by the failure to simply prove the point.

BTW what does it take to be Academically eligible? As I read it, unless you're a junior or senior, you need only to have carried 6 credit hours in the fall semester with a GPA of 1.8 (frosh) and 1.9 (soph). Juniors would need to have completed 40% of degree requirements to "maintain satisfactory progress" toward a degree. None of these rules, in and of themselves, would prevent a student in the UK starters' positions from not going to class in the spring semester. What a mess.

Yes BKs statement is a bit slanderous and the players should not have to refute unfounded allegations, but the greater point is that the current system supports, one could even argue encourages, players not to attend the spring semester especially if they don't plan to be in school/graduate the following year.

[Bluedog]

Patterson and John Wall were both reportedly good students and went to class. Wall had the best GPA on the team first semester (I think near a 4.0), and Patterson was always a good student. Cousins, despite his on court demeanor, was reportedly still academically eligible for his sophomore year at UK. Bledsoe and Orton on the other hand...So, really only 2/5 stopped going to class/couldn't handle the coursework. Orton left UK's campus completely before the semester was over and was working out in California.

I'd say that it's more up to the individual in Cal's system. It's not the Calipari says you should ignore academics, but probably didn't stress it enough to push those borderline students to put in the extra effort to do coursework when their plan was to go to the NBA at the end of the year anyways. Not saying that's the way it should be, but to say all 5 of them stopped going to class seems inaccurate.

Odd...there is not one thing here that would tend to prove/disprove whether these guys attended class during the spring semester. Your statement doesn't address spring semester attendance at all. I can't find anything online, aside from assertions from those with interest on the school/students side, to prove attendance. It would seem easy for the university to release records (a dated/signed test, or writing requirement, photo, etc. that these folks were in class) and prove attendance. I tend to side with the players here, but am mystified by the failure to simply prove the point.

BTW what does it take to be Academically eligible? As I read it, unless you're a junior or senior, you need only to have carried 6 credit hours in the fall semester with a GPA of 1.8 (frosh) and 1.9 (soph). Juniors would need to have completed 40% of degree requirements to "maintain satisfactory progress" toward a degree. None of these rules, in and of themselves, would prevent a student in the UK starters' positions from not going to class in the spring semester. What a mess.

Yes BKs statement is a bit slanderous and the players should not have to refute unfounded allegations, but the greater point is that the current system supports, one could even argue encourages, players not to attend the spring semester especially if they don't plan to be in school/graduate the following year.

Sorry, I should have read the articles before posting. Including this one:

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketb...n=ncaab-wp2259

He claims Bledsoe finished his spring semester. And Cousins too (which I had heard). Orton is the only one according to this author to not finish.

I was in a rush and thought I'd send a quick reply. I would delete my previous post if I could...I don't think there's any way to definitively say one way or the other. While it might be "easy" for UK to prove it one way or the other, it would be a violation of FERPA. Schools can't just release students' academic records to the public and for good reason. I simply reported above what Kentucky fans were saying at the time (although I admit they might not be so reliable!). Cal himself said multiple times that Wall had the highest team GPA...My apologies for any misinformation.

Edit: licc85 below supports what I had also heard.

[licc85]

As a current UK graduate student, I know for sure that Bledsoe and Orton never went to class. It's kind of why both of them opted to go pro even though they probably could have benefited from 1 more year at UK.

[Kfanarmy]

While it might be "easy" for UK to prove it one way or the other, it would be a violation of FERPA.

Don't you think these students would say "no problem" if UK asked them for permission to release something, as long as it isn't damning for some other reason?

[Bluedog]

Don't you think these students would say "no problem" if UK asked them for permission to release something, as long as it damning for some other reason?

Personally, I don't think schools should ask their student-athletes such requests unless it is part of an NCAA or legal probe. And I don't see why these players would request such a release as they feel like they don't need to prove anything to anybody. I'm not saying I condone the practice of having student-athletes not going to class, but I do support the secrecy of a particular student's academic record. Releasing team-wide data seems reasonable, though, to hold a program accountable.

[Kfanarmy]

Personally, I don't think schools should ask their student-athletes such requests unless it is part of an NCAA or legal probe. And I don't see why these players would request such a release as they feel like they don't need to prove anything to anybody. I'm not saying I condone the practice of having student-athletes not going to class, but I do support the secrecy of a particular student's academic record. Releasing team-wide data seems reasonable, though, to hold a program accountable.

I would agree with you IF the school hadn't gone so far out of its way to assert that Knight was wrong. All I'm saying is if UK can prove their point, they should do so...the appearance is that they can't...surely most people can prove they went to work without releasing performance evaluations. Of course releasing academic material might be risky. One of my college roomies was a high school valedictorian who struggled mightily to pass core freshman classes. You wouldn't want to read some of his freshman writings.

[TheItinerantSon]

At least Calipari doesn't assault his players.

[uh_no]

At least Calipari doesn't assault his players.

"I have discussed this with Michael Prince, his parents and Coach Knight. Coach Knight did not slap Michael. Here is what happened: Michael came off the court with his head down and Coach Knight quickly lifted Michael's chin up and said, 'Hold your head up and don't worry about your mistakes. Just play the game.' In my opinion, Coach Knight did not do anything wrong."

Is this the incident you're referring to? because that certainly sounds like the kind of coach I want on the sidelines...I mean...unless there is a coach out there who calls his players "selfish mother"

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/19/jo...elfish-mother/

[TheItinerantSon]

Is this the incident you're referring to? because that certainly sounds like the kind of coach I want on the sidelines...I mean...unless there is a coach out there who calls his players "selfish mother"

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/19/jo...elfish-mother/

lots of coaches swear -- not that many coaches do this: Video of Knight assaulting a player

[uh_no]

lots of coaches swear -- not that many coaches do this: Video of Knight assaulting a player

no. very few coaches rip a player so publicly and senselessly as calipari did. I concede your point on knight. I hear knight was pretty good at producing coaches too....Our coach is on record as loving him. Perhaps you think K has a falliable sense of affection?

[TheItinerantSon]

Perhaps you think K has a falliable sense of affection?

yes.

i've never met an infallible person.

[rthomas]

So here is a question, and I'm guessing that many of you will answer it one way and will answer it defensively, but I think not many of you don't really know, so here goes:

How many classes has Nolan and Kyle been too since the ACC tournament? Traveling to NCAA game. Remember they just got finished with this barnstorming tour; they are meeting with agents. With all the demands on players from January on playing twice a week, then the tournaments, then the whole zoo to get drafted, really how much gets done in that final semester?

Honest question.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

no. very few coaches rip a player so publicly and senselessly as calipari did. I concede your point on knight. I hear knight was pretty good at producing coaches too....Our coach is on record as loving him. Perhaps you think K has a falliable sense of affection?

Knight was a wonderful coach and is a great game commentator, but he has a "short fuse" that gets him into trouble.

Remember the 1992 Final Four game when Duke beat Indiana? There was somewhat of a controversy when Knight refused to shake hands or otherwise acknowledge Coach K after the game. He's like that ... sometimes acts before considering consequences.

[Tappan Zee Devil]

So here is a question, and I'm guessing that many of you will answer it one way and will answer it defensively, but I think not many of you don't really know, so here goes:

How many classes has Nolan and Kyle been too since the ACC tournament? Traveling to NCAA game. Remember they just got finished with this barnstorming tour; they are meeting with agents. With all the demands on players from January on playing twice a week, then the tournaments, then the whole zoo to get drafted, really how much gets done in that final semester?

Honest question.

They are going to graduate, which presumably means that they are passing their courses this year.

I think your post is both negative (without supporting data) and somewhat patronizing

Jim

[Jderf]

So here is a question, and I'm guessing that many of you will answer it one way and will answer it defensively, but I think not many of you don't really know, so here goes:

How many classes has Nolan and Kyle been too since the ACC tournament? Traveling to NCAA game. Remember they just got finished with this barnstorming tour; they are meeting with agents. With all the demands on players from January on playing twice a week, then the tournaments, then the whole zoo to get drafted, really how much gets done in that final semester?

Honest question.

The same question can be posed to all seniors, not just Nolan and Kyle. Everybody is busy with things beyond their schoolwork in their final semester, and classes often take a back seat to more pressing matters.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

The same question can be posed to all seniors, not just Nolan and Kyle. Everybody is busy with things beyond their schoolwork in their final semester, and classes often take a back seat to more pressing matters.

Other than those looking to gain that final .oo1 in his or her GPA for whatever reason (reach an honor level, finish first in their class, pass instead of fail etc.), most seniors are more interested in getting a job or getting into grad school and just finishing up and partying than REALLY doing serious class work is they don't have to.