NBA Playoffs

[darjum]

Fellow Knicks fans - where do you stand on D'Antoni's coaching this series? I have been defending him, but am starting to lean toward the "he has stunk" camp. Critics are pointing to the fact that he has no timeouts left at the end of the game, his team was not ready to foul with 4 seconds left being down 1, and that he had a bad offensive line-up on the floor for the last possession. What say you?

Critics also point out that he can only coach to his system (hence passing on certain players, Corey Brewer springs to mind) if they don't fit his needs. I did enjoy his Phoenix teams and it's hard to gauge his NY tenure do to the above mentioned Isiah Thomas wreck. I'm not a Knickss fan, but I enjoy the NBA a lot more when basketball is relevant in NY. I hope he gets one more year with a solid roster. But if the Knicks stink up Game 3, watch out Mike D.

[sagegrouse]

Fellow Knicks fans - where do you stand on D'Antoni's coaching this series? I have been defending him, but am starting to lean toward the "he has stunk" camp. Critics are pointing to the fact that he has no timeouts left at the end of the game, his team was not ready to foul with 4 seconds left being down 1, and that he had a bad offensive line-up on the floor for the last possession. What say you?

I'm not a Knick fan, but... The Knicks were able to play the Celtics almost dead even with only one offensive weapon. Of course, the Celtics took the Knicks out of their preferred play in the last minute. The questions is, why didn't they do it earlier in the game and put it out of reach? And why did the Celtics miss so many makeable shots by Pierce and Allen before the last play by Garnett?

I think the talk about the "Celtics being tough in the clutch" is as far from the truth as one can imagine. They almost got beat by a team with two of its three most important players out of action.

D'Antoni did fine. Yeah, I know, Knicks and New York fans will criticize any coach who doesn't win. But really...

sagegrouse
'OTOH I really enjoyed the Caps comeback win against New York last night'

[theAlaskanBear]

Isiah was truly an amazing player, one of the greatest ever to play point guard, and probably the greatest of his physical stature. It is too bad the rest of the package was so far from ideal, from the odd and cutting comments that come from his mouth, to his horrendous tenure as a front office executive (although he did well in the NBA drafts), to his less than stellar coaching gigs, to his various legal issues. BUT, his bad rep punches heavier than its weight -he has no felonies on record, etc. He never fails to put his foot in his mouth.

I hear you about the Bulls and Thunder - I have just been so unimpressed by the Celtics and Lakers that I feel like the time is ripe for any of these teams to get hot and grab the brass ring. I agree that the Bulls seem to do a lot of Derrick Rose watching, but the guys is so unstoppable right now that it may be an ok offensive strategy.

Fellow Knicks fans - where do you stand on D'Antoni's coaching this series? I have been defending him, but am starting to lean toward the "he has stunk" camp. Critics are pointing to the fact that he has no timeouts left at the end of the game, his team was not ready to foul with 4 seconds left being down 1, and that he had a bad offensive line-up on the floor for the last possession. What say you?

They are only a couple of missed shots away from being up 2-0 on Eastern Conference kings the Celtics. If that happens, we are talking about how a coach with two great players but a completely deficient lineup in all other regards took down the Boston Celtics.

My guess is that there WAS a player supposed to foul, but that he ended up way out of position. Melo wasnt even close to the dude.

So I think it's jumping the gun a bit to be judging him. The Knicks have been out of the playoffs for almost a decade. Clearly the team isn't quite there yet. A bigger test of coaching will be to see if the Knicks can climb to that 3-4 seed range in the next couple of years.

[Billy Dat]

I am with you...I want to defend D'Antoni and agree with what you have all said...the majority of the criticism is coming in how the team has handled the final few possessions of the first two games. He also looks bad when compared to Rivers who has made some great calls...the out of bounds play alley oop in Game 1 and the play call for KG in Game 2 where he hit the hook over Jeffries...Doc designed the play so Rondo would be under the hoop as he was the only potential guy who the defender could leave to double KG (the Knicks were not going to leave Allen, Pierce or West). Rondo's defender was under the hoop, behind Jeffries, and out of position to help lest he leave Rondo with a lay-up. So, he got KG a on-on-one where if anyone leaves their man, there is a solid/great Celtic with a wide open jumper or Rondo with a lay-up. Doc has really grown as a coach, he's right up there with the best right now. Of course, having a veteran team that's won a title and starts 2-3 Hall of Famers tends to make a coach look good.

FYI - This site has been doing awesome scouting reports and X and O breakdowns of the playoffs:
http://nbaplaybook.com/

[bundabergdevil]

Not sure if anyone noticed that former Terps guard Steve Blake returned to the Lakers line-up this last game after an absence of a week or so. Did he have an injury that kept him sidelined? Not exactly, he was stricken with a bout of the chicken pox - http://lakersblog.latimes.com/lakers...-decision.html

Between this and his poetic descriptions of Johnny Rockets, I'm beginning to suspect that Steve Blake is the best 10 year old in the NBA!

[sagegrouse]

Not sure if anyone noticed that former Terps guard Steve Blake returned to the Lakers line-up this last game after an absence of a week or so. Did he have an injury that kept him sidelined? Not exactly, he was stricken with a bout of the chicken pox - [URL="http://lakersblog.latimes.com/lakersblog/2011/04/blake-sidelined-indefinitely-becasue-of-chicken-pox-barnes-game-time-decision.html"]

Between this and his poetic descriptions of Johnny Rockets, I'm beginning to suspect that Steve Blake is the best 10 year old in the NBA!

Hmmmm... The "adult version" of chicken pox, I believe, is "shingles" (Herpes Zoster), which is no laughing matter to those who get it. I wonder what's going on?

sagegrouse

[bundabergdevil]

Yeah, I checked a few sites before posting for that very reason. Like you said, shingles isn't something to be trifled with and I certainly wouldn't wish that sort of thing on anyone. But, by all accounts, he just has the chicken pox, was out with it for a week, and is now back in the line-up.

Just sort of a weird reason to be out for a playoff game (any game, really) at his age. Maybe he didn't get them as a kid or something...

[94duke]

Yeah, I checked a few sites before posting for that very reason. Like you said, shingles isn't something to be trifled with and I certainly wouldn't wish that sort of thing on anyone. But, by all accounts, he just has the chicken pox, was out with it for a week, and is now back in the line-up.

Just sort of a weird reason to be out for a playoff game (any game, really) at his age. Maybe he didn't get them as a kid or something...

He's not the only Laker to not get it as a kid...
Kobe Bryant, Ron Artest, and Andrew Bynum
http://content.usatoday.com/communit...andrew-bynum/1

[moonpie23]

50% of the players in the pacers/bulls game on the floor right now are from duke

[darjum]

50% of the players in the pacers/bulls game on the floor right now are from duke

The East in general is loaded with ex-Duke players. Now if only Battier would make his way East I'd feel a lot better

[Newton_14]

There has been some very good points made in this thread on all sides regarding the state of both the College and NBA game. Props to all for their input.

I do not have a lot to add but just a couple of points from my view. I having been watching Bball religiously since the early 70's. College Basketball is my first love, and nothing will ever change that. Just a personal preference. Just love it. My love for the NBA game peaked in the mid-late 80's with the run of the Sixers-Celtics-Lakers-Pistons, though I did enjoy watching the Bull teams of the 2 Jordan era's.

I feel a few factors negatively impacted both game's. NBA expansion combined with mass early-entry by kids with games nowhere near NBA ready, really hurt the NBA game. It just led to a lot of teams with subpar talent and poor fundamentals. The NBA game has recovered and has improved significantly in the last 10 years, though the bottom feeders still suffer. The top teams are back to being really good though.

The college game has been significantly impacted by early-entry as well. The teams are just too young. I still love it, but there is a reason we saw Butler and VCU in the Final Four this year. The top teams while good, are very vunerable to upset. I mentioned that the NBA game recovered, question is, will the College game? Not sure. Things tend to go in cycles so we wait it out and see. The NBA One-and-Done Rule will have to change first though.

The only other point I have, is regarding the 24 Second shot clock. I hate it, but that is just me. Again, personal preference. I just feel it elimates the ability to run a team oriented offense and promotes more one on one play. Would rather the clock be set to 30 or even 35. Like others, would also like to see a shorter regular season and a different playoff format as well.

[roywhite]

Not directly related to the playoffs, but it's great to see the success players from the 2010 FIBA World Championship team have had this season.

They're dominating individual awards with Kevin Love being named most improved, Lamar Odom selected as 6th Man of the Year, and Derrick Rose a strong favorite for MVP.

Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook have the Thunder in position to make a deep playoff run.

It all reflects well on Coach K and the team basketball we saw last summer when this "B team" of USA players swept through the FIBA field.

[darjum]

I feel a few factors negatively impacted both game's. NBA expansion combined with mass early-entry by kids with games nowhere near NBA ready, really hurt the NBA game. It just led to a lot of teams with subpar talent and poor fundamentals. The NBA game has recovered and has improved significantly in the last 10 years, though the bottom feeders still suffer. The top teams are back to being really good though.

Living in Australia I had no exposure to NBA basketball in the 80's. But in the early 90's I was able to see quite a few games, both college and pro. Coincidentally the third game of college basketball I ever watched was the regional final between Duke and Kentucky in 92, hence I now find myself writing on the DBR board nearly 20 years later! But back to my main point, I began watching pro basketball when Miami, Charlotte, Orlando and Minnesota entered the league, which at the time I assumed was somewhat normal. I know realize 20 years later that this was the beginning of the dilution of talent. Throw in Toronto and and Vancouver and you move from 24 to 30 teams, without an additional talent pool to access other then the college game. The foreign explosion came not too long after, increasing the talent pool somewhat, but not too much.

Hence began the drain, and basically required pilfering of the college game. I still recall the uproar when Garnett skipped high school and the subsequent high school to pro trend, and the new craze of the one and done generation. I can never blame the athletes for their choice, as I don't hold anything against Kyrie, just thank him for his input into my enjoyment of Duke basketball. But I do feel a trifle dissapointed that I wasn't aware or able to view college hoops in the 80's and early 90's, it really seemed like a special time for the sport.

Obviously contraction of the NBA would benefit all leagues from a talent stand point but I think we all know that $ talks and the chance of contraction is small. Changes to age requirements would also assist both leagues, but how do you tell an 18 year old LeBron James he can't go pro when he clearly entered the league as a top 20 talent. Instead, LeBron, Dwayne and Chris subjugated the process and made what would have been possible 20 years ago, a team with 3 high quality players on it. Stinks for the teams that lost their superstars but maybe this is the way to bring back a sense of excitement to what has become some what of a predictable NBA climate.

Regardless, like you I find college basketball more enjoyable to watch, but will always enjoy the NBA as it is the ultimate destination for the players we enjoy from a college perspective. Just as I can't wait to see Kyrie's transition to the pros.

[Steven Allen]

First off, I gotta say this is a wonderful thread. Lot's of real in depth posts here that I appreciate.

My two cents: D'Antoni is a system coach that is very good at what he does. Given the requisite pieces, he can create a contender, which is what the Knicks are on the way to. I wouldnt put too much stock into this NY-BOS series, it was clear that Boston was the better, more experienced team from the beginning.

[darjum]

Not directly related to the playoffs, but it's great to see the success players from the 2010 FIBA World Championship team have had this season.

They're dominating individual awards with Kevin Love being named most improved, Lamar Odom selected as 6th Man of the Year, and Derrick Rose a strong favorite for MVP.

Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook have the Thunder in position to make a deep playoff run.

It all reflects well on Coach K and the team basketball we saw last summer when this "B team" of USA players swept through the FIBA field.

I'm from Australia and I would love to get an American perspective on what sort of team you'd like to see at the next Olympics for the US. Same as the 2008 Olympic team, full of superstars, or like the 2010 FIBA team, full of potential stars ready to blossom?

[Spret42]

The only other point I have, is regarding the 24 Second shot clock. I hate it, but that is just me. Again, personal preference. I just feel it elimates the ability to run a team oriented offense and promotes more one on one play. Would rather the clock be set to 30 or even 35. Like others, would also like to see a shorter regular season and a different playoff format as well.

The flip side to that argument is because the NBA is full of highly skilled players who can score in a variety of ways, there isn't as much need for a "team-oriented" offense in order to score.

The need for 25-30 seconds of teams running screen after screen, pass after pass, in order to get a lay up isn't really necessary at the NBA level. That kind of offense is for players/teams who aren't as skilled and require more structure.

At the NBA level, where you have a variety of players who can score in variety of ways, offense can be a simple as a two man pick and roll, running a shooter of a baseline screen for an open 20 footer he will hit 60% of the time or forcing a switch, recognizing a mismatch and then spacing the floor and letting your scorer do work.

That doesn't mean there isn't a call at times for team oriented, five men involved offense, cause you do see it a lot. It is just in the NBA, you don't need 30 seconds to get a good shot, they get quality shots in 15-18 seconds.

[superdave]

I'm from Australia and I would love to get an American perspective on what sort of team you'd like to see at the next Olympics for the US. Same as the 2008 Olympic team, full of superstars, or like the 2010 FIBA team, full of potential stars ready to blossom?

I dont think it really matters if we have superstars like the Redeem Team of 2008 or if it's younger guys like 2010. I think two things matter - Guys are busting their tails to get on the team; Coach K has them all on the same page.

Kevin Durant, Blake Griffin and Derrick Rose will be the key additions to the core from 2008. I'd also argue that Kevin Love should be there. Dropping off from the 2008 squad would be Boozer, Kidd, Prince and Redd. Deron Williams is likely to have to fight it out for a spot with Westbrook, Curry and Gordon. Or Paul could potentially opt out if his knee is acting up. That's my take, although there's always a surprise or two.

[JasonEvans]

I dont think it really matters if we have superstars like the Redeem Team of 2008 or if it's younger guys like 2010. I think two things matter - Guys are busting their tails to get on the team; Coach K has them all on the same page.

Kevin Durant, Blake Griffin and Derrick Rose will be the key additions to the core from 2008. I'd also argue that Kevin Love should be there. Dropping off from the 2008 squad would be Boozer, Kidd, Prince and Redd. Deron Williams is likely to have to fight it out for a spot with Westbrook, Curry and Gordon. Or Paul could potentially opt out if his knee is acting up. That's my take, although there's always a surprise or two.

I suspect a fair number of the 2008 stars will opt out this time both to allow other guys a shot at a Gold Medal and also because they want a break. I especially think slightly older guys like Kobe and Jason Kidd would not mind a summer off.

I agree that Prince and Redd will not be back. Redd's career seems close to over and he is just not a factor in the NBA any more. Prince is still about the same player as in 2008, but he is not among the elite players in the league and there are some far more deserving guys out there who do not yet have a Gold Medal.

That's 4 spots that are open... at a minimum. I suspect the rest of the guys -- including Boozer -- will have the option to come back and try to make it again, but no one is going to be guaranteed a spot and several may decline it. It will be interesting to see if K and Collangelo require guys to come to camp this summer to play in some exhibition games (we don't have to qualify for the Olympics as defending champs) if they want to be considered for next year's team. We may see a weeding out process begin now if K again wants a 2-year commitment from guys.

My bet is that we end up with a mix of 4-6 of the guys from 2008 combined with new stars like Durant, Westbrook, Love, Griffin, Rose and others. I wonder if Rondo will take another shot at it?

-Jason "as we saw last summer, even with none of the 2008 Redeem Team stars, the US is a major favorite in any international competition" Evans

[JasonEvans]

I thought folks might enjoy reading some of this article from Yahoo's NBA blog. It talks about how physical and intense the Bulls-Pacers series has been, but the part people will enjoy is the effusive praise heaped upon Luol Deng.

The weariest of all the Bulls would have to be do-it-all forward Luol Deng, who was an all-around terror with 21 points, six boards and six assists. Deng couldn't add to any of those numbers in the fourth quarter, however, as he was clearly pained and fatigued from playing each and every minute of the first three quarters of the game. Though Deng's effort never let up, he was constantly grabbing at his shorts and hips throughout the second half and collapsing into the Bulls bench at every timeout.

Luol is averaging 42 minutes per game in the post-season. As much as Rose runs the offense and grabs all the headlines, Deng is the glue that holds the team together in so many different ways. He has turned into the stud that everyone** knew he would be when he left Duke.

--Jason "**- except Billy Knight, the stupidest GM in NBA history... Josh Childress instead of Deng... really?!@?!?!?!" Evans

[superdave]

I suspect a fair number of the 2008 stars will opt out this time both to allow other guys a shot at a Gold Medal and also because they want a break. I especially think slightly older guys like Kobe and Jason Kidd would not mind a summer off.

I think Kobe is obsessed enough with his career accomplishments and legacy that he will play if he is healthy. Another Gold Medal would look nice on his resume. Also, accounts from that 2008 team hinted at just how much Kobe loved being a part of that group, being cool and accepted by his teammates.

He also took over at the end of the Gold Medal game vs. Spain. I will always admire him for stepping up in that moment.

Is Kidd 50 yet? (kidding, sort of)

There's a glut of really talented PGs - Paul, Williams and Rose would be my top 3; Westbrook, Rondo and Wall would be next. We're missing that kind of depth at the 2 though, so Curry and Gordon have got a really good shot.

Super "I hope to see Gordon, Griffin and the Clippers in the NBA playoffs next year" Dave