Duke finishes #2 (KenPom)

[roywhite]

Final 2011 rankings

Notable:
tOSU #1
Kansas #3
Kentucky #6
UConn #10
UNC #12
Belmont #19
Arizona #24
Michigan #25

[Kedsy]

Final 2011 rankings

Notable:
tOSU #1
Kansas #3
Kentucky #6
UConn #10
UNC #12
Belmont #19
Arizona #24
Michigan #25

Compare this to pre-tournament rankings:

#1 Ohio State
#2 Duke
#3 Kansas
#7 Kentucky
#17 UConn
#14 UNC
#18 Belmont
#25 Arizona
#40 Michigan

Butler moved from #53 to #41. VCU moved from #84 to #52.

Interesting how Arizona hardly moved but Michigan moved up 15 spots.

[superdave]

My conclusion to all this is that it was a weak year for college basketball. It was a weak year from a talent plus experience point of view and weak because there was no really good team that became great as the season progressed. If you took the 64 teams, 8 each from the past 8 years, and magically threw them into a tournament, no 2011 teams would make it very far in my estimation.

Duke, Kansas and OSU were all top 4-5 in the KenPom all year and looked to be solid picks for the Final Four. All upset by inconsistent teams. I could not have seen that happening to the last 4-5 champs. The good never became great.

[DukieTiger]

My conclusion to all this is that it was a weak year for college basketball. It was a weak year from a talent plus experience point of view and weak because there was no really good team that became great as the season progressed. If you took the 64 teams, 8 each from the past 8 years, and magically threw them into a tournament, no 2011 teams would make it very far in my estimation.

Duke, Kansas and OSU were all top 4-5 in the KenPom all year and looked to be solid picks for the Final Four. All upset by inconsistent teams. I could not have seen that happening to the last 4-5 champs. The good never became great.

This is emphasized when you look at the last 5 champs, and their immediate competitors. Last year's Duke team was a great team, plus Kansas and Kentucky. 09 Unc obviously. 08 Kansas and Memphis (the top 4 this year was dominant) and then the great 07 Florida team. Nothing like that this year, honestly.

[Kedsy]

My conclusion to all this is that it was a weak year for college basketball. It was a weak year from a talent plus experience point of view and weak because there was no really good team that became great as the season progressed. If you took the 64 teams, 8 each from the past 8 years, and magically threw them into a tournament, no 2011 teams would make it very far in my estimation.

Duke, Kansas and OSU were all top 4-5 in the KenPom all year and looked to be solid picks for the Final Four. All upset by inconsistent teams. I could not have seen that happening to the last 4-5 champs. The good never became great.

I disagree with this interpretation. Duke was almost upset by Baylor last year. If that had happened and West Virginia had played Butler for the national championship, would you have said either of them were "great"? Or what if Hayward's last shot had gone in?

If the ref hadn't been so quick on the 5 second call and Texas had beaten Arizona, and then Duke had gone on to win the championship this year, would you have said that we were only "good"?

Kansas (one of the "last 4-5 champs" that you couldn't see being upset) was a missed-three-pointer-at-the-buzzer away from losing to Davidson in 2008. It seems to me your definitions hinge on minutiae.

[Kedsy]

Last year's Duke team was a great team, plus Kansas and Kentucky.

Well, outside of Duke fans, the public considered Kansas, Kentucky, and Syracuse to be the great teams, and all of them were upset, much like this year.

And, yes, I understand Pomeroy thought we were #1 or #2 last year, but pre-tournament Pomeroy thought Wisconsin and Ohio State were #3 and #4. In fact, last year 6 of Pomeroy's top 7 teams were upset before the Final Four, and this year 6 of Pomeroy's top 7 teams were upset before the Final Four. It's just that Kentucky (Pomeroy's #7 team, pre-tournament) lost to UConn by 1 instead of winning the championship. Frankly I fail to see the difference.

[bjornolf]

I disagree with this interpretation. Duke was almost upset by Baylor last year. If that had happened and West Virginia had played Butler for the national championship, would you have said either of them were "great"? Or what if Hayward's last shot had gone in?

It was a home game for Baylor, and all the experts were saying that Duke couldn't win an away game last season. We won by 7. I don't remember being all that worried during that game. All the experts were saying that Duke couldn't handle Baylor's athleticism. All the experts were saying that Duke wouldn't get past the second round. I'm not sure the experts would have even considered a loss to Baylor an upset. Almost every game in last year's tourney except the first round, the experts picked against Duke. We were weak, soft, and unathletic. We didn't even deserve the 2 seed we got. And then Brian brought the thunder, baby, and it was all over.

[uh_no]

I don't remember being all that worried during that game.

Not even when we were losing with fewer than 4 minutes to play? You have guts of steel man if you weren't worried then.

[sandinmyshoes]

My conclusion from the final KenPom rankings?

That's why the games are played rather than calculated.

[ACCBBallFan]

Over the period 2003 to 2011, ranking the top 25 each year 1st = 25; 2nd = 24 etc,

Duke and Kansas tie for first overall:

183 Kansas
183 Duke
145 North Carolina
124 Pittsburgh
121 Wisconsin

118 Kentucky
107 Louisville
107 Connecticut
106 Texas
093 Florida

84 Illinois
82 Memphis
80 UCLA
76 Syracuse
76 Ohio St.

73 Michigan St.
65 Villanova
65 Georgetown
58 Maryland
57 West Virginia

48 Oklahoma
44 Purdue
42 Washington
42 Arizona
41 Oklahoma St.

[uh_no]

Over the period 2003 to 2011, ranking the top 25 each year 1st = 25; 2nd = 24 etc,

Duke and Kansas tie for first overall:

183 Kansas
183 Duke
145 North Carolina
124 Pittsburgh
121 Wisconsin

118 Kentucky
107 Louisville
107 Connecticut
106 Texas
093 Florida

84 Illinois
82 Memphis
80 UCLA
76 Syracuse
76 Ohio St.

73 Michigan St.
65 Villanova
65 Georgetown
58 Maryland
57 West Virginia

48 Oklahoma
44 Purdue
42 Washington
42 Arizona
41 Oklahoma St.

Its striking how low MSU is, honestly

[Kedsy]

Over the period 2003 to 2011, ranking the top 25 each year 1st = 25; 2nd = 24 etc,

What ranking system did you use?

[ACCBBallFan]

What ranking system did you use?

Kedsy, That was from the final Pomeroy link for those years

[ACCBBallFan]

Its striking how low MSU is, honestly

Perhaps an indication on how except for this year, Izzo's team outplays their seed/ Pomeroy ranking.

Both Mich St and UCLA have had a good run of F4's, but not this year.

[Kedsy]

Kedsy, That was from the final Pomeroy link for those years

Post-tournament rankings (i.e., from his website archives) or pre-tournament rankings?

[hurleyfor3]

We also won the Sagarin "championships" in 1999, 2002 and 2006.