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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by captmojo View Post
    Plumlee wanabes. Old time ball.
    What a classic! Love those Hanson brothers.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by davekay1971 View Post
    While I understand your overall point, you're not making an accurate comparison. There aren't several competing countries in the US with their own languages and flags. In the state of North Carolina, however, the lucky folks can pick from The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, UNC-Wilmington, UNC-Charlotte, North Carolina State University, Davidson University, Wake Forest University, East Carolina University, etc,...or even that other school in Durham (sadly infested with yankees as it is). The annoyance, for us residents of this fine state who are not fans of UNC-CH, is that local media seem to forget that there are indeed teams playing basketball in North Carolina who don't wear pastel blue.
    I would love to see an enterprising investigative reporter analyze stats on the identity of the alma maters of the sports reporters and editors of the newspapers, radio stations, and tv stations in the triangle.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC

    I agree!

    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    i am not sure what Duke beating unc has to do with the reality of the fact that T. Zeller has shown a much more refined offensive game than either Plumlee. Mason may have a higher ceiling, but at this point I would certainly say that TZ is better than either Mason or Miles, and frankly, its not that close. If either Mason or Miles developed Zeller's low post hook shot they would be an absolute force to be reckoned with.
    I was reading through that thinking the same thing. The guy was comparing TZ to the Plumli not Duke vs UNC this year. I don't care which shade of blue you pull for, you have to admit TZ is much better right now.
    “There are five fundamental qualities that make every team great: communication, trust, collective responsibility, caring and pride. I like to think of each as a separate finger on the fist. Any one individually is important. But all of them together are unbeatable.”

    -Coach K

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    Mason may have a higher ceiling, but at this point I would certainly say that TZ is better than either Mason or Miles, and frankly, its not that close.
    Agreed! Tyler Zeller is consistent, which is one area where Miles and Mason need to improve. If either one (preferably both) develops consistency over the summer, the front court will be in great shape next season.

    I'm a huge Plumlee fan and love that they are playing at Duke, but Tyler Zeller is the more talented ball player.
    Bob Green
    United States Navy (Retired)
    @JBobGreen

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    The above post although true is borderline blasphamy.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by diveonthefloor View Post
    I would love to see an enterprising investigative reporter analyze stats on the identity of the alma maters of the sports reporters and editors of the newspapers, radio stations, and tv stations in the triangle.
    You don't need an investigative reporter to unearth some sort of media-driven conspiracy theory. Just look at the market. UNC has 18,500+ undergrads vs. maybe 7,500 or so for Duke. Perhaps 85 percent of those students are from NC. More than half of UNC's almost 300,000 alumni live in the state of NC. Add family members to the alumni figures and you have a large market of UNC fans. And yes, there are lots of fine universities in North Carolina, but only one is the flagship university of North Carolina, which is why so many people who never go to UNC or even college still pull for their home team. So of course there is going to be lots of coverage of UNC, which is why I have never understood this line of grumbling from Duke fans.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoHeel View Post
    You don't need an investigative reporter to unearth some sort of media-driven conspiracy theory. Just look at the market. UNC has 18,500+ undergrads vs. maybe 7,500 or so for Duke. Perhaps 85 percent of those students are from NC. More than half of UNC's almost 300,000 alumni live in the state of NC. Add family members to the alumni figures and you have a large market of UNC fans. And yes, there are lots of fine universities in North Carolina, but only one is the flagship university of North Carolina, which is why so many people who never go to UNC or even college still pull for their home team. So of course there is going to be lots of coverage of UNC, which is why I have never understood this line of grumbling from Duke fans.
    One thing I'm curious about: Do UNC fans care that so few of their team's players are actually from North Carolina?

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsfan View Post
    The above post although true is borderline blasphamy.
    Its either true or its blasphemy. It can't be both. They are not similar in meaning

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lompoc, West Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoHeel View Post
    ... More than half of UNC's almost 300,000 alumni live in the state of NC. Add family members to the alumni figures and you have a large market of UNC fans. And yes, there are lots of fine universities in North Carolina, but only one is the flagship university of North Carolina, which is why so many people who never go to UNC or even college still pull for their home team...
    Oooh...this explains it. I get the picture. It's all clear to me now. I bow to this superior insight.

    Only one question remains, however. When exactly, did NC State University move out beyond our borders? I guess it must have been about the same time as more than half of all the alums took off, as well.

    I answered my own question. So...nevermind.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by captmojo View Post
    Oooh...this explains it. I get the picture. It's all clear to me now. I bow to this superior insight.

    Only one question remains, however. When exactly, did NC State University move out beyond our borders? I guess it must have been about the same time as more than half of all the alums took off, as well.

    I answered my own question. So...nevermind.
    In all fairness to ChicagoHeel, NC State takes a back seat to UNC when it comes to representing the state. The media knows its market and caters to it; it's that simple. It irritates me to hear the media bias, but I understand where it comes from and don't get too bent out of shape about it. The only guy who consistently annoyed me was Bomani Jones, who made his disdain for Duke obvious.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Talent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    I'm a huge Plumlee fan and love that they are playing at Duke, but Tyler Zeller is the more talented ball player.
    I think this is debatable, but it really depends what you mean by talent. I'd say Zeller is the more skilled player, but I'd say Mason has more physical talent, at least in terms of running, jumping, and strength. No doubt, however, that at this point Zeller is the better player.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    I think this is debatable, but it really depends what you mean by talent. I'd say Zeller is the more skilled player, but I'd say Mason has more physical talent, at least in terms of running, jumping, and strength. No doubt, however, that at this point Zeller is the better player.
    Unfortunately, Zeller is much better than Mason right now. Not even debatable. Mason might be better in the pros, but that won't mean much for Duke next year(if he comes back). Mason might be more physically gifted, but not more talented.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Nashville
    Quote Originally Posted by Vincetaylor View Post
    Unfortunately, Zeller is much better than Mason right now. Not even debatable. Mason might be better in the pros, but that won't mean much for Duke next year(if he comes back). Mason might be more physically gifted, but not more talented.
    This is true right now. However, there are two areas where Mason has been a bit better than Zeller. One is rebounding. Based almost entirely on natural ability and owing little to consistent positioning, box-out skills, etc, Mason's defensive rebounding rate was 24%, which was good for 48th in the entire nation and is an excellent number. With improved positioning and feel for the game, which should happen naturally, it is entirely possible that this number will improve next year making him one of the nation's premier rebounders (compare this to only 15.3% for Zeller). The other area is assist rate. In my opinion, Mason has very underrated court vision. His assist rate of 10.4% is very solid for a center/powerforward and I would not at all be surprised to see this rate increase next year, as well, as he will certainly receive a few more touches and play a more integral role in the offense. The flipside of this is that he absolutely must cut his turnover rate. However, if things "click" for him a little more next year, we could see him emerge as an elite rebounder (if he isn't, already) and one of the best play-making forwards in the ACC. Zeller will likely continue to average more points per game, but I expect Mason to be significantly better as a rebounder, shot blocker, and passer.

  14. #54
    Zeller is also a year older than Mason. The numbers aren't directly comparable, but Zeller averaged 9.3 pts 4.6 rebounds as a sophomore last year. Mason had 7.2 pts and 8.4 rebounds this year. Also, Mason averaged more blocks and had a higher FG percentage than Zeller this year. I think Mason will average a double-double this year (or very close).

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lompoc, West Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by stillcrazie View Post
    In all fairness to ChicagoHeel, NC State takes a back seat to UNC when it comes to representing the state. The media knows its market and caters to it; it's that simple. It irritates me to hear the media bias, but I understand where it comes from and don't get too bent out of shape about it. The only guy who consistently annoyed me was Bomani Jones, who made his disdain for Duke obvious.
    In all fairness to me, watch what happens if the worm turns and State starts winning again. The great unwashed will drop that baby blue, and colors at WalMart will turn red so fast...(make up your own metaphor)

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoHeel View Post
    You don't need an investigative reporter to unearth some sort of media-driven conspiracy theory.
    If it is all the same to you, I'll stick to the conspiracy theory.

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Talking Scoring Depends on Both Supply and Demand

    Quote Originally Posted by FireOgilvie View Post
    Zeller is also a year older than Mason. The numbers aren't directly comparable, but Zeller averaged 9.3 pts 4.6 rebounds as a sophomore last year. Mason had 7.2 pts and 8.4 rebounds this year. Also, Mason averaged more blocks and had a higher FG percentage than Zeller this year. I think Mason will average a double-double this year (or very close).
    Supple equals capability to score; demand equals need to score.

    FWIW, Zeller HAD to be a major offensive force for UNC. Who else was there, especially early in the season, before Barnes became a threat? At Duke, the inside guys were not as essential, because Duke had the ACC's leading scorer and team leader Kyle Singler putting up nearly 40 points per game. Plus, there was Kyrie for awhile and some scoring from Seth and Andre. There was little need, unfortunately, to develop the Plumlees and Ryan as a focal point of the offense.

    Next year will be a different story, and we will see how well Duke develops some inside scoring and how Mason, for example, compares with Tyler Z. In fact, this is one of the most interesting questions to ponder going into next season.

    sagegrouse

  18. #58

    Also

    I think it is important to note that Plumlee has never had more than a handful of games with a true point guard who knows naturally how to get the ball at the right time to a big man. Next season wll be different for him if he stays. Cook seems to be a pass first PG. Remember Mason was having a pretty good run in the first 8 games he had with Irving. I truly believe he will turn a lot of heads next season

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Redmond, WA

    turnovers

    Quote Originally Posted by COYS View Post
    This is true right now. However, there are two areas where Mason has been a bit better than Zeller. One is rebounding. Based almost entirely on natural ability and owing little to consistent positioning, box-out skills, etc, Mason's defensive rebounding rate was 24%, which was good for 48th in the entire nation and is an excellent number. With improved positioning and feel for the game, which should happen naturally, it is entirely possible that this number will improve next year making him one of the nation's premier rebounders (compare this to only 15.3% for Zeller). The other area is assist rate. In my opinion, Mason has very underrated court vision. His assist rate of 10.4% is very solid for a center/powerforward and I would not at all be surprised to see this rate increase next year, as well, as he will certainly receive a few more touches and play a more integral role in the offense. The flipside of this is that he absolutely must cut his turnover rate. However, if things "click" for him a little more next year, we could see him emerge as an elite rebounder (if he isn't, already) and one of the best play-making forwards in the ACC. Zeller will likely continue to average more points per game, but I expect Mason to be significantly better as a rebounder, shot blocker, and passer.
    Mason's turnovers mostly came either early in the season or when he tried to take the ball off the dribble late in the season. As the season went along and he had the ball in the paint he was solid.

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Irvine, CA
    Quote Originally Posted by Vincetaylor View Post
    Unfortunately, Zeller is much better than Mason right now. Not even debatable. Mason might be better in the pros, but that won't mean much for Duke next year(if he comes back). Mason might be more physically gifted, but not more talented.
    I totally agree. I don't even know why everyone is debating this other than the fact that Mason is our player and we're blindly devoted. Zeller consistently demonstrates a soft touch around the basket, hits a high percentage of open jumpers from 15 feet in, and knows how to get inside position for his baby hook. Mason doesn't do any of these things well yet. I sure hope he develops all these essential big man skills but I wonder how much he works on these aspects of his game. I've always gotten the impression that Mason thinks he's a wing player and wants to dribble, penetrate, make acrobatic shots, etc. Sadly, I fear he's a product of this generation, enamored with high-flying dunks and highlight reel plays rather than the simple, effective fundamentals of the game. I hope I'm wrong on that one. We'll see.

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