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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Irvine, CA

    Can Rivers be the best scorer ever to play for Duke?

    I just started wondering if we've ever had a player with the combination of shooting range, killer instinct, driving ability, and all-around offensive repertoire that Austin Rivers will be bringing to Duke next year?

    Who would be considered the best offensive player to ever have played for Duke? I've only been watching Duke play since 1990, but Christian, Jay Williams, and JJ come to mind right off the bat. But did those guys have the complete game of Rivers? I know it's hard to compare guys that play different positions, but I just thought it would be an interesting topic for discussion.

    By the way, who are the top scorers for an individual season in Duke history? I wonder if Austin might be able to top that as a freshman. We'll certainly be relying on him heavily for scoring next year. I'm getting excited for next year already!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieinSoCal View Post
    I just started wondering if we've ever had a player with the combination of shooting range, killer instinct, driving ability, and all-around offensive repertoire that Austin Rivers will be bringing to Duke next year?

    Who would be considered the best offensive player to ever have played for Duke? I've only been watching Duke play since 1990, but Christian, Jay Williams, and JJ come to mind right off the bat. But did those guys have the complete game of Rivers? I know it's hard to compare guys that play different positions, but I just thought it would be an interesting topic for discussion.

    By the way, who are the top scorers for an individual season in Duke history? I wonder if Austin might be able to top that as a freshman. We'll certainly be relying on him heavily for scoring next year. I'm getting excited for next year already!
    After the incidence with kyrie this year, I refuse to anoint players before the season anymore
    1200. DDMF.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Raleigh
    Dunno...
    If he were to avg. 45pts a game and we were consistently losing would it matter how much he scores?

    A better metric to me would be: Can he deliver those "must have" baskets in crunch time consistently to win the game?"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    After the incidence with kyrie this year, I refuse to anoint players before the season anymore
    Perhaps, but it's worth noting that in the time he was able to play for Duke, Irving did not just live up to the hype, he exceeded it.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    Perhaps, but it's worth noting that in the time he was able to play for Duke, Irving did not just live up to the hype, he exceeded it.
    No argument here. I don't expect Rivers to average 20 for Duke next year. I expect the team will be fairly balanced offensively. I expect Mason to take a big step forward next year (please come back) and feel that he will be a leader on the team. I also think Ryan, Andre and Seth will take advantage of more scoring responsibility. I could certainly see Austin leading the team in scoring (hopefully with lots of help from Kyrie), but think there are enough other good options on the team that he will not need to have the greatest freshman scoring season and one of the best overall scoring seasons for Duke next year.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC

    correction

    I should correct one item from an earlier post.

    Based on some checking, I think Austin's birth date is 8/1/1992, which would make him 18 years old currently, and 19 when Fall semester starts. There was some talk that he could have reclassified to the high school class of 2010, but nowadays he's not unusually "old" for a graduating high schooler.

    20+ points per game for Austin this next season...anybody with me?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    Perhaps, but it's worth noting that in the time he was able to play for Duke, Irving did not just live up to the hype, he exceeded it.
    still bad karma IMO :P
    1200. DDMF.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    still bad karma IMO :P
    I totally agree. A thread was started last summer asking "where the 2010-11 Duke team would rank in history". I am of the mind that questions like this should be asked after the career/season is completed, rather than before they ever start.

    Austin is a great talent and likely a "can't miss" prospect, but that doesn't change the fact that he is just that, "a prospect". He may very well be a great scorer in college, but that needs to playout before judgement can be rendered on where he ranks among great scorers in Duke history. Just my two cents..

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    Perhaps, but it's worth noting that in the time he was able to play for Duke, Irving did not just live up to the hype, he exceeded it.
    I totally agree with you. I have to ask, do you think it helped our team for him to come back and play in the tournament?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    I have not read the whole thread so if this was already mentioned I apologize.

    I hope that Austin is an exceptional player but I hope he is NOT the best scorer ever at Duke. Next year Duke needs everyone to contribute and not stand around and watch Austin score.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Irvine, CA
    When I originally posed the question, I was not thinking at all about Austin's future NBA career or even his place in Duke history. I was just thinking about one season at Duke, since that's all we're guaranteed with any of these top recruits.

    I know there will be an adjustment/learning process, but as fans, it's fun to imagine what could be. And I thought that it could be possible for Austin to be the best scorer that I've seen from a Duke player since I've been following the program(1991).

    We can debate the definition of a "scorer" but it seems that Austin is very well-rounded in his offensive repertoire. We've had plenty of great shooters in the past 2 decades, but I don't know if there's been a player that combines crazy range with the ability to drive, finish, and score from anywhere on the floor like Austin does.

    Anyways, it's been fun reading everyone's posts. Can't wait for the '11-'12 season to start.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieinSoCal View Post
    I just started wondering if we've ever had a player with the combination of shooting range, killer instinct, driving ability, and all-around offensive repertoire that Austin Rivers will be bringing to Duke next year?

    Who would be considered the best offensive player to ever have played for Duke? I've only been watching Duke play since 1990, but Christian, Jay Williams, and JJ come to mind right off the bat. But did those guys have the complete game of Rivers? I know it's hard to compare guys that play different positions, but I just thought it would be an interesting topic for discussion.

    By the way, who are the top scorers for an individual season in Duke history? I wonder if Austin might be able to top that as a freshman. We'll certainly be relying on him heavily for scoring next year. I'm getting excited for next year already!
    Just my opinion...

    I could see Austin Rivers average 20 pts per game, or better, next season.

    I think it is possible that Austin Rivers could eventually become the highest scoring NBA player that Duke has produced (no small feat, and certainly no sure thing).

    But, Austin next year as best ever Duke scorer?

    Art Heyman, Jeff Mullins, Johnny Dawkins, Danny Ferry, Jason Williams, JJ Redick as upperclassmen were all terrific college scorers. I don't see freshman Austin Rivers as surpassing those guys.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    I think a better question is can anyone guard Austin Rivers next year? He appears able to create his own shot over and over, making scoring his major strong suit. By contrast, JJ had to have help getting open shots via picks and shooting was his major strong suit.

    Guys at Duke that were un-guardable: Dawkins, Hill, Williams, Irving.

    Guys who were great scorers, but guardable: Ferry, Laettner, Langdon, Brand, Redick.

    I certainly hope Austin fits into the team concept well. It's not all about scoring on the individual level, it's about making the team the best it can be.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    Just my opinion...

    I could see Austin Rivers average 20 pts per game, or better, next season.

    I think it is possible that Austin Rivers could eventually become the highest scoring NBA player that Duke has produced (no small feat, and certainly no sure thing).

    But, Austin next year as best ever Duke scorer?

    Art Heyman, Jeff Mullins, Johnny Dawkins, Danny Ferry, Jason Williams, JJ Redick as upperclassmen were all terrific college scorers. I don't see freshman Austin Rivers as surpassing those guys.
    The best freshman scoring average - ever - was 18.1 ppg by Johnny Dawkins in '82-'83. Gene Banks is next with 17.1 ppg.

    20 ppg is not particularly likely - especially with all of the firepower around him.

  15. #15
    I think Rivers will be great, and while I hate to ever compare any situation at Duke to UNC, please remember what happened to ol' black falcon early this season. Preseason AA award ridiculousness aside, people had absolutely unrealistic expectations for him to flat out lead the team in scoring from the start and be an evil doppelganger of MJ. While he came on late in the season, I would hate to see a similar type of fanbase over-expectation/pressure situation with Austin.

    Its fine to have higher than average expectations for him given his talent and BBall IQ level, but lets not get carried away until we see his in uniform for a few games.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Bojangles4Eva View Post
    ...please remember what happened to ol' black falcon early this season. Preseason AA award ridiculousness aside, people had absolutely unrealistic expectations for him to flat out lead the team in scoring from the start and be an evil doppelganger of MJ.
    Except Barnes did lead his team in scoring, so maybe those expectations weren't so unrealistic.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Except Barnes did lead his team in scoring, so maybe those expectations weren't so unrealistic.
    http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...lina-tar-heels

    Almost. Zeller beat him by a point, according to ESPN.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Except Barnes did lead his team in scoring, so maybe those expectations weren't so unrealistic.
    Sorry, maybe I did not put enough emphasis in the post, but I was referring to the expectations of him to lead the team right from the start, at the beginning of the season. I also indicated that he turned it on later, implying that at the end of the season he was meeting expectations, but the main point being things were very rocky over in hell in Nov - Dec.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Except Barnes did lead his team in scoring, so maybe those expectations weren't so unrealistic.
    Barnes is an exceptional talent. It's too bad he chose to go elsewhere. He also didn't anoint himself pre-season AA. That was put on his shoulders. There should be an unwritten rule not to do that to incoming freshman. But, looking back, Barnes' second half of the season warranted him in the discussion. Also, during NCAA tourney interviews he addressed this issue and gave a mature, well-thought out response that he was trying his best as a freshman to live up to the accolade. I think he did in the Tourney.

    Per the question about Austin. He does appear to merge the best characteristics of previous Duke play-makers and shooters. He will be an effective scorer next year, but obviously, he will be even more effective if Kyrie stays as he will be the focal point of opposing defenses.

  20. #20
    Some numbers from the goduke stats database ...

    Johnny scored 18 pts/35 minutes as a frosh
    Johnny scored 20 pts/33 minutes as a senior (his minutes went down over career)

    JJ scored 15 pts/30 minutes as a frosh
    JJ scored 27 pts/37 minutes as a senior

    Ferry scored 22.6 pts/33 minutes as a senior

    Laettner scored 20 pts/30 minutes one year; 21.5 pts/32 minutes another

    Two guys who seemed to me to be pretty good scorers:

    Maggette scored 10.6 pts/17.7 minutes. That's a pace better than Dawkins' and JJ's 1:2 frosh pace.

    Also, Will Avery scored 15 pts/31 minutes as a sophomore; on pace with Johnny and JJ's frosh paces.

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