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  1. #1

    Derrick Rose Officially is the NBA MVP - Testament to Coach K and USA basketball

    Here is the link to an espn article that makes it official that Rose is the MVP of the NBA for the 2010-11 season. http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nb...story?id=64711 .

    I can see Coach Cal trying to claim some credit for Rose; but this article talked about how much of a leap Rose made during the summer by being on the US National team; and I remember reading in an article or post game interview from the summer how Rose credited Coach K with giving him a better understanding of how to play basketball. I would think that Rose's achievement would continue to be a positive reflection on Coach K and the USA basketball coaching staff. I don't think it's a coincidence that many of the young stars on the National team like Rose, Durant and Westbrook have made big leaps this year as a result of being coached by Coach K. Our Carolina posters may disagree; but I would think that Rose's achievement would be very positive in recruiting for Coach K when HS school kids can see the kind of impact Coach K has on helping young NBA stars improve their games by playing for K.

    What do you guys think?

  2. #2
    The 2010 team boasts an unprecedented number of dudes who made the leap the following year: Durant is the league's most unstoppable scorer, Gay was the Griz' best player until two weeks ago, Westbrook was an all-star, Love won the rebounding title and almost single handedly made boardwork cool again, Iguodola leads his team a hard fought 6 games against the Heat, Chandler is giving the Mavs true toughness they've never had (yes Haywood, I'm looking at you), Odom wins 6th man, Rose wins MVP... i mean, that's startling.

    I think a single elimination tournament in a foreign country is probably a super healthy thing 3-5 years into a pro career. And Coach K gives them structure on defense and freedom on offense. It's like a graduate school course. It's like Top Gun.

  3. #3
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    There are 4 main awards that recognize excellence in the NBA each year: MVP, Most Improved, Defensive, and 6th Man.

    That is it... only 4 awards (plus the All-NBA teams, but there are multiple winners there).

    So, those 4 awards this year were won by...

    • MVP - Derrick Rose, who took "the leap" after playing for K over the summer
    • 6th Man - Lamar Odom, who set career highs in FG percentage, 3pt FG percentage, and improved his scoring by almost 40% from last year after playing for K over the summer
    • Most Improved - Kevin Love, who took "the leap" after playing for K over the summer
    • Defensive POY - Dwight Howard


    3 of those guys have something in common... can anyone place it?

    --Jason "is there is any doubt as to whether K would be a massive success in the NBA, I think the past 9 months have put that to rest" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  4. #4
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    I doubt Coach K had much to do with Rose being the MVP. I understand the train of thought, this is a Duke board, but you could also say that Lebron wasn't the MVP this year because he was coached by K. Neither statement is true.

    I am sure he had a great experience last summer winning a gold medal and I believe he learned a lot throughout the process. Coach K and Duke cannot take credit for all of it, nor enough of it to make it matter on the recruiting trail.

  5. #5
    Is Duke or K taking credit for all of it? Doesn't look like it to me.

    K would be the first to compliment Rose for his hard work.

  6. #6
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    Here's one opinion that notes the crucial role of Coach K in Derrick Rose's improvement

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/6...vp-without-him

    The second reason is Coach K. He is a phenomenal coach and Derrick certainly benefited from just being with him and his coaching. By spending a summer learning from his and staff Derrick has been able to better his game. And it has to be the time he spend with Coach K as the differentiating factor because that is the biggest difference in his summer from his prior years in his career.

    Don't get me wrong, Derrick would not be the player he is without his own grueling workouts. And Tom Thibodeau has done wonders for his game and will continue to do so. But the time spend with Coach K must have been a differentiating factor from his season last year to his performance this year.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by kong123 View Post
    I doubt Coach K had much to do with Rose being the MVP. I understand the train of thought, this is a Duke board, but you could also say that Lebron wasn't the MVP this year because he was coached by K. Neither statement is true.

    I am sure he had a great experience last summer winning a gold medal and I believe he learned a lot throughout the process. Coach K and Duke cannot take credit for all of it, nor enough of it to make it matter on the recruiting trail.
    Not so fast Kong. I knew you would dispute it, but Rose is on record as saying K helped his game. Like it or not, appreciate it or not, the man can coach and teach the game of basketball on any level. He is quite simply the best of his time.

    Many of the NBA guys who have now played for K will tell you he helped them improve.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    Not so fast Kong. I knew you would dispute it, but Rose is on record as saying K helped his game. Like it or not, appreciate it or not, the man can coach and teach the game of basketball on any level. He is quite simply the best of his time.

    Many of the NBA guys who have now played for K will tell you he helped them improve.
    I am not going to deny that Coach K is a great coach and that Rose learned a lot the helped him this year, but drawing the conclusion that everyone playing on Team USA had career years because they played for Coach K is reaching a bit, don't you think? Rose played with Kobe, LeBron, Wade, and a few other perennial all-stars last summer too didn't he? Think he learned anything being around those guys? A few years ago, you guys were running him into the ground because of the NCAA investigation into his SAT test and now that he has played for Coach K for a few months and won the MVP, you claim him? I think its a bit silly. If roles were flipped and a UNC fan claimed the same thing, would you agree?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by kong123 View Post
    I am not going to deny that Coach K is a great coach and that Rose learned a lot the helped him this year, but drawing the conclusion that everyone playing on Team USA had career years because they played for Coach K is reaching a bit, don't you think? Rose played with Kobe, LeBron, Wade, and a few other perennial all-stars last summer too didn't he? Think he learned anything being around those guys? A few years ago, you guys were running him into the ground because of the NCAA investigation into his SAT test and now that he has played for Coach K for a few months and won the MVP, you claim him? I think its a bit silly. If roles were flipped and a UNC fan claimed the same thing, would you agree?
    Hmmm...a check of the record makes it difficult to see just how we could "flip" the roles here.

    2002 FIBA
    USA 6th Place
    Coach: George Karl

    2004 Olympics
    USA Bronze Medal (4 losses)
    Coach: Larry Brown

    2008 Olympics
    USA Gold Medal
    Coach: Mike Krzyzewski

    2010 FIBA
    USA Gold Medal
    Coach: Mike Krzyzewski

    Help me out here...was there a lot of discussion following the 2002 and 2004 international competitions about how Karl and Brown had been a terrific influence on the development of the players?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    Hmmm...a check of the record makes it difficult to see just how we could "flip" the roles here.

    2002 FIBA
    USA 6th Place
    Coach: George Karl

    2004 Olympics
    USA Bronze Medal (4 losses)
    Coach: Larry Brown

    2008 Olympics
    USA Gold Medal
    Coach: Mike Krzyzewski

    2010 Olympics
    USA Gold Medal
    Coach: Mike Krzyzewski

    Help me out here...was there a lot of discussion following the 2002 and 2004 international competitions about how Karl and Brown had been a terrific influence on the development of the players?

    Please do not deflect. If the exact roles were reversed, where a UNC coach won the gold medal and a player from that team won the MVP of the NBA the following year, would you accept that the UNC coachs presence played a significant role in the players improvement?

    And please, do not shoot back, well... a UNC coach hasn't won a gold medal. Stay on topic and try to answer the question honestly.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kong123 View Post
    Please do not deflect. If the exact roles were reversed, where a UNC coach won the gold medal and a player from that team won the MVP in the NBA the following year, would you accept that the UNC coach played a significant role in the players improvement?

    And please, do not shoot back, well... a UNC coach hasn't won a gold medal. Stay on topic and try to answer the question honestly.
    So I should choose the hypothetical example over the actual results?

    Coach K did a great job and the Carolina coaches did not. Here's some analysis of Larry Brown's job in the 2004 Olympics.

    Olympics: Larry Brown didn't work wonders

    There is no question in anyone's mind, including the opponents of the US team, that we had the most talent. The squad had more game than EA Sports. Here's what happened: no defense, especially behind the 3-point arc, and no pure shooters to combat the zone D. And this despite the fact that the three-point line was much closer and we had strong defensive players like Richard Jefferson and Tim Duncan?
    What the US needed was an athletic team to respond to the high screen and roll - the play that every team ran against the United States easier than Sunday morning. It seemed the American players kept falling back into NBA-style defense of giving up the long 3 as opposed to a lay-up. The problem is that the international teams run the high screen and roll to get the open three. The logical conclusion is that Brown did not emphasize getting out on those shooters instead of stopping the screeners break to the hoop.
    Surely you can find better topics on which to try your light blue spin. We see examples of 2008 and 2010 players themselves raving about the experience of playing under Coach K. That's powerful, and unsolicited testimony.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kong123 View Post
    I am not going to deny that Coach K is a great coach and that Rose learned a lot the helped him this year, but drawing the conclusion that everyone playing on Team USA had career years because they played for Coach K is reaching a bit, don't you think? Rose played with Kobe, LeBron, Wade, and a few other perennial all-stars last summer too didn't he? Think he learned anything being around those guys? A few years ago, you guys were running him into the ground because of the NCAA investigation into his SAT test and now that he has played for Coach K for a few months and won the MVP, you claim him? I think its a bit silly. If roles were flipped and a UNC fan claimed the same thing, would you agree?
    We are not claiming Rose, just claiming that he grew as a player after spending the summer learning under K. As for running him in the ground, I never did that, and most of the negative comments I read were directed at Cal, not Rose.

    And if "roles were flipped" and a UNC fan wanted to claim K helped all of these guys I would certainly agree!

    Seriously, if the teacher were Dean Smith, then yes, I would likely agree. Roy is a good coach but I can't put him on the same level as K nor Dean.

  13. #13
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    Below is a recap of those US Teams that had coaches from UNC. Those teams didn't have Kobe or many of the other big names of the day. I guess you can blame all of that on the UNC coaches?


    2004 Olympics (Athens) – The Nightmare Team
    Main article: Basketball at the 2004 Summer Olympics
    The close outcome of 2000 and the humiliating results of 2002 prompted a number of NBA superstars to agree to join the team for the FIBA Americas Championship 2003, which the squad was required to participate in to qualify for the 2004 Summer Olympics. The team easily cruised to a first-place finish, earning it a spot in Athens, Greece the following summer.
    However, the dominant team that competed in 2003 could not be kept together. Nine of its 12 players elected not to participate in Athens. The revamped 2004 team consisted of some young NBA stars early in their careers, such as Carmelo Anthony and LeBron James, but also included recent Most Valuable Players Tim Duncan and Allen Iverson. The team was coached by Larry Brown.
    After struggles in several exhibition matches, the vulnerability of the 2004 team was confirmed when Puerto Rico defeated them 92–73 in the first game of the Olympic tournament in Athens. The 19 point defeat was the most lopsided loss for the USA in the history of international competition.
    After winning close games against Greece and Australia, The USA fell to Lithuania, dropping to 2–2 in the Olympic tournament. Even after an 89–53 win over Angola, the Americans entered the knockout rounds in fourth place due to goal average, the lowest seed of their group. The Americans faced undefeated Spain in their quarterfinal game, winning 102–94.
    However, the semi-final match saw the team defeated by Argentina, 89–81, ending the United States' hold on the gold medal. The USA did rebound to capture the bronze medal by defeating Lithuania.[22] Still, it marked only the third time that an American team failed to win gold (excluding 1980 Moscow Olympics boycott), and the first time for an American team composed of professionals. Before 2004, American teams had only lost two games in all previous Olympic tournaments, whereas in this one the American team lost three.
    [edit]2006–2008
    Following the disappointments in 2002 and 2004, USA Basketball appointed Jerry Colangelo to be solely responsible for selecting the team. Colangelo made it clear that he would ask players for a three-year commitment—the 2006 FIBA World Championship and the 2008 Summer Olympics. In the 2006 Worlds, the team was eliminated by Greece at the semifinals, after a dramatic match. The head coach was Duke University's Mike Krzyzewski, with assistants Jim Boeheim, Mike D'Antoni, and Nate McMillan. While some prominent players, such as Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett, stated that they did not plan to play for the team, superstars Dwyane Wade, Kobe Bryant and LeBron James publicly announced their commitment for the 2006 Worlds and the ensuing 2008 Olympics. Wade, James and Carmelo Anthony were named captains of the 2006 USA World Championship Team.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    We are not claiming Rose, just claiming that he grew as a player after spending the summer learning under K. As for running him in the ground, I never did that, and most of the negative comments I read were directed at Cal, not Rose.

    And if "roles were flipped" and a UNC fan wanted to claim K helped all of these guys I would certainly agree!

    Seriously, if the teacher were Dean Smith, then yes, I would likely agree. Roy is a good coach but I can't put him on the same level as K nor Dean.
    This isn't a UNC/Duke thing for me. I just think its funny when a fanbase claims an NBA player because he played for K for a couple of months. Kobe would have played at Duke. Rose won the MVP because of K. I think those are silly statements. I just felt I needed to keep a few of you honest on this matter. Last I will say on the matter.

  15. #15

    Not trying to get you riled up, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by kong123 View Post
    This isn't a UNC/Duke thing for me. I just think its funny when a fanbase claims an NBA player because he played for K for a couple of months. Kobe would have played at Duke. Rose won the MVP because of K. I think those are silly statements. I just felt I needed to keep a few of you honest on this matter. Last I will say on the matter.
    Again, no one is claiming Rose for Duke. The fact is Rose stated that playihg for K helped him; and I believe he even said that he would've loved to play for K in college. A duke fan didn't say it....Rose did. Why is it so hard for you to believe that the time spent with K over the summer had an impact on these players? Those players gained confidence from being champions over the summer; and carried it over to this season. Lebron, D-wade and Carmelo became better players after their firet experience under Coach K, You could see that in the way Lebron played defense the following season. Moreover, why do you think it is silly to think that Kobe would've went to Duke when even his HS coach said that where's Kobe would've gone had he chosen to go to college because of his relationship with Coach K. Keep in mind that when Phil left the Lakers, K was the coach Kobe really wanted.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by kong123 View Post
    I think those are silly statements.
    Pot, meet kettle.

  17. #17
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    Talking Textual Reference

    Here's the germane quote from the ESPN article:

    The Chicago-born point guard had a breakout third season, averaging 25 points, 7.7 assists and 4.1 rebounds. After a summer with the U.S. National team, Rose made a significant leap.
    Clearly the US National team experience was a watershed Rose. Maybe it was K and the coaching staff. Maybe it was Rose's seeing that he was as good as anyone on the US team.

    The same thing happened a fortiori (Does anyone know what this means?) for Kevin Love.

    sagegrouse

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Clearly the US National team experience was a watershed Rose. Maybe it was K and the coaching staff. Maybe it was Rose's seeing that he was as good as anyone on the US team.
    I think it is fair to say this. I think saying it was more K than the overall experience of playing in the Olympics and playing with the best in the world is self serving.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by kong123 View Post
    I doubt Coach K had much to do with Rose being the MVP. I understand the train of thought, this is a Duke board, but you could also say that Lebron wasn't the MVP this year because he was coached by K. Neither statement is true.

    I am sure he had a great experience last summer winning a gold medal and I believe he learned a lot throughout the process. Coach K and Duke cannot take credit for all of it, nor enough of it to make it matter on the recruiting trail.
    Hi Kong123, I can understand why you got your feathers a bit ruffled over this thread. From my perspective it is the word "Testament" in the thread title. Testament, as in a proof, attestation, or tribute (Dictionary.com) to Coach K and his involvement with the United States basketball team. Which obviously there is no measurable correlation between Rose's MVP and his international basketball experience.

    Could Rose's participation and starting role in the World Championships have a correlation to his performance this year, of course. Could it be that Rose, as with many of his peers that did well this year from a statistical upgrading perspective, simply be making the jump from young inexperienced player to veteran status, again possibly. But the experience that Rose and his colleagues gained this summer certainly appears to have helped, even for a 11 year vet such as Lamar Odom, who is having one of his better statistical seasons, the experience appears to have had a "positive reflection".

    The primary reason Rose won the MVP is the leagues best record, coupled with the expansion of his game (ast, stl, blk, pts, 3pt %, FT% all career highs - making 128 3's compared to 32 his first two years) that allowed him to be crowned the leagues youngest MVP.

    Did K have a hand in that, maybe, maybe not. But Kyle Singler and Nolan Smith are testaments to Coach K, Derrick Rose is but a positive reflection of Coach K and USA basketball.

  20. #20
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    I don't think there is any disagreement that Derrick Rose's experience with Team USA and Coach K was immensely helpful for him. Last summer without a doubt made him a better teammate and a better player.

    Everyone agrees with that statement. However, it is much different to go from saying that to saying "Derrick Rose won the MVP BECAUSE of that summer with Team USA and Coach K."

    That is a fallacy claiming causation, and I think that's what Kong is arguing against, and I agree with that. Coach K made DRose a better player, but did Coach K win DRose the MVP? Maybe maybe not. His MVP was the culmination of a lot of factors, and K's coaching was one of them.

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