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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Nanjing, China
    I dunno how much stats actually play in here. JJ scored a ton because the team's offense was built to get him open shots. I'm not saying he's not a GREAT offensive player, he's actually one of favorite dukies ever, but he's still more of a pure shooter than a complete offensive player. If you want to go off pure offensive ability, I gotta go with Christian Laettner. Laettner was a nightmare of a matchup because he was 6'11 and had an unbelievable shooting touch for a big man. He could post you up with his back to the basket game, he could face you up and drive past you or shoot over you, he was just unstoppable. He also had a nasty competitive attitude too.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    I think he has a better chance of having his jersey retired than Shavlik Randolph does.

    He's no Brian Bersticker, though

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  3. #23
    Some numbers from the goduke stats database ...

    Johnny scored 18 pts/35 minutes as a frosh
    Johnny scored 20 pts/33 minutes as a senior (his minutes went down over career)

    JJ scored 15 pts/30 minutes as a frosh
    JJ scored 27 pts/37 minutes as a senior

    Ferry scored 22.6 pts/33 minutes as a senior

    Laettner scored 20 pts/30 minutes one year; 21.5 pts/32 minutes another

    Two guys who seemed to me to be pretty good scorers:

    Maggette scored 10.6 pts/17.7 minutes. That's a pace better than Dawkins' and JJ's 1:2 frosh pace.

    Also, Will Avery scored 15 pts/31 minutes as a sophomore; on pace with Johnny and JJ's frosh paces.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    Perhaps, but it's worth noting that in the time he was able to play for Duke, Irving did not just live up to the hype, he exceeded it.
    still bad karma IMO :P
    usa

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    He's no Brian Bersticker, though
    Who is?

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Irvine, CA
    It's amazing to me that JJ averaged 27 pts/gm as a senior without being able to drive on people consistently. I suppose he got a few extra points at the end of games shooting free throws but still, what an amazing feat.

    With regards to the Harrison Barnes comparisons, I wonder if Austin is stronger than Barnes mentally. He's always described as a "killer" by scouts. It seems that he has that drive/confidence/ego that Christian had. When you combine that kind of mental game with his physical skills, the sky's the limit.

    I know Barnes has hit some big-time shots but he seems a bit introverted/deferring to me. He kind of reminds me of Chris Webber in the sense that they are super-talented and sometimes act the part of a gangsta but they never seem totally comfortable in the spotlight, leading a team.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Jacksonville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Who is?
    Only the greatest Tar heel ever.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieinSoCal View Post
    It's amazing to me that JJ averaged 27 pts/gm as a senior without being able to drive on people consistently. I suppose he got a few extra points at the end of games shooting free throws but still, what an amazing feat.
    Hmm. My memory of his senior year is different than yours. The leap in his game from junior to senior year as I recall was his new ability to attack the rim. This is what led to so many foul shots. It also is what led to our pain in the last tournament game when he was hammered so much on drives and no longer got the calls.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Art Heyman averaged 25 ppg for three seasons, without a shot clock or a three-point shot.

    Just saying.

  10. #30

    Austin

    Quote Originally Posted by AZLA View Post
    Barnes is an exceptional talent. It's too bad he chose to go elsewhere. He also didn't anoint himself pre-season AA. That was put on his shoulders. There should be an unwritten rule not to do that to incoming freshman. But, looking back, Barnes' second half of the season warranted him in the discussion. Also, during NCAA tourney interviews he addressed this issue and gave a mature, well-thought out response that he was trying his best as a freshman to live up to the accolade. I think he did in the Tourney.

    Per the question about Austin. He does appear to merge the best characteristics of previous Duke play-makers and shooters. He will be an effective scorer next year, but obviously, he will be even more effective if Kyrie stays as he will be the focal point of opposing defenses.
    No one mentioned Austin's defense. We all know that he won't be on the floor as much if his defense isn't solid. Kyrie came in with the whole package and might have been our leading freshman scorer of all time had he been healthy all season.

    The best possible scenario for Duke is that Kyrie come back and play a year with Austin. That would be a backcourt the likes of which would become legendary.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA

    Can Rivers be the best scorer ever to play for Duke? NO

    I would have to give that question an unequivocal NO. To be the best scorer, you would need to play 4 seasons. I seriously doubt, given what we have seen of Rivers already, that he will be at Duke for 4 years.
    Now if you asked "Could he be the best scorer?" Then I would say, possibly -- if he stayed 4 years.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by bluepenguin View Post
    I would have to give that question an unequivocal NO. To be the best scorer, you would need to play 4 seasons. I seriously doubt, given what we have seen of Rivers already, that he will be at Duke for 4 years.
    Now if you asked "Could he be the best scorer?" Then I would say, possibly -- if he stayed 4 years.
    I don't think a freshman Austin Rivers will be the best scorer in Duke history, but I disagree that you have to play for four years to earn that title. Kyle had more career points than Nolan, but Nolan was a better "scorer" in their junior and senior years. Likewise, Jason Williams was a better scorer than both of them, but stayed only three years. Would you exclude him from the greatest scorer in Duke history because of that?

    On a different note, I'm hesitant to use the term scorer when talking about Austin Rivers (or Kyrie for that matter) because it makes them seem too one dimensional. When I hear scorer, I think of guys like Allen Iverson or Tracy McGrady, who score a lot of points, but need a lot of shots to do it and don't always make their teammates better because of it. On a college level, I'd put Jimmer Fredette, Adam Morrison, and Steph Curry in this group as well. (I'm not saying those guys didn't help their teams or win games with that style, only that sometimes scoring a lot of points comes at the expense of the team as a whole.) If the team is better off with Austin scoring 20, while taking a ton of shots, then I'm all for it, but if Duke is better with him scoring an efficient 15 PPG with 4-5 assists and solid defense, I'd take that every day of the week.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    He's no Brian Bersticker, though
    The STICK!

    On a related note, I hear Nick Horvath is tearing it up in summer practices.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Nanjing, China
    Quote Originally Posted by bluepenguin View Post
    I would have to give that question an unequivocal NO. To be the best scorer, you would need to play 4 seasons. I seriously doubt, given what we have seen of Rivers already, that he will be at Duke for 4 years.
    Now if you asked "Could he be the best scorer?" Then I would say, possibly -- if he stayed 4 years.
    pretty sure the OP meant "best scorer, post college career included." For instance, MJ was easily the best scorer to ever play for UNC, but he didn't play 4 years. How will Austin do in the NBA? Nobody knows for sure. He could go on to become the best offensive player to ever play at Duke, or he might not. We haven't seen him play in college. I personally think Grant Hill was THE greatest talent to ever play in a Duke uniform, but he's not necessarily a record holder for a ton of stats at Duke.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Who is?
    Who wants to be?

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Irvine, CA

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by licc85 View Post
    pretty sure the OP meant "best scorer, post college career included." For instance, MJ was easily the best scorer to ever play for UNC, but he didn't play 4 years. How will Austin do in the NBA? Nobody knows for sure. He could go on to become the best offensive player to ever play at Duke, or he might not. We haven't seen him play in college. I personally think Grant Hill was THE greatest talent to ever play in a Duke uniform, but he's not necessarily a record holder for a ton of stats at Duke.
    I was actually only thinking about Austin next year at Duke, but it is another interesting question that you pose. And of course, how you define "scorer" can be pretty varied and subjective, which makes the discussion all the more interesting. I certainly wouldn't limit the criteria to statistics. We have to also consider efficiency, how many different ways a player can score, context of era and team, etc.

    And I don't want people to get too worked up about ignoring the team concept and the priority of winning over individual accolades. This is just for fun, since we are fans after all. The coaches will take care of all the important stuff.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by licc85 View Post
    pretty sure the OP meant "best scorer, post college career included." For instance, MJ was easily the best scorer to ever play for UNC, but he didn't play 4 years. How will Austin do in the NBA? Nobody knows for sure. He could go on to become the best offensive player to ever play at Duke, or he might not. We haven't seen him play in college. I personally think Grant Hill was THE greatest talent to ever play in a Duke uniform, but he's not necessarily a record holder for a ton of stats at Duke.
    Why, in a discussion of Duke Basketball scorers and season averages would we consider what a player accomplishes after he leaves Duke? That data is, IMO, irrelevant to his accomplishments while here or his ranking or standing as a scorer.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudy View Post
    Hmm. My memory of his senior year is different than yours. The leap in his game from junior to senior year as I recall was his new ability to attack the rim. This is what led to so many foul shots. It also is what led to our pain in the last tournament game when he was hammered so much on drives and no longer got the calls.
    I would have to agree that JJ's senior year really was pretty amazing. Not only did he get to the rim more but his mid range game became unstoppable. I always think of the game vs Texas when he put up 41 and could not be stopped. The shots he was taking were fade aways, off screens, etc. So I would definitely add JJ senior year to the list of unstoppable players but I guess the LSU game seems to dispel that notion.

  19. #39
    I hope Rivers becomes one of the best scorers in Duke history and leads teams to multiple National Championships.

    But speculation about him becoming "the best scorer ever" reminds me of Hank Aaron's prediction that Brad Komminsk would be a super star.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Irvine, CA
    There's a nice article up on espn's recruiting page comparing the current crop of McDonald's kids to their NBA counterparts. Austin was compared to Kobe and once again, that word "killer" comes up. Maybe this is some good karma coming our way since Kobe's always saying how he wish he could have played a season for coach K at Duke.

    And Quinn is compared to Darren Collison and Marshall to Aldrich. Not bad.

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