Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 81
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Irvine, CA

    Can Rivers be the best scorer ever to play for Duke?

    I just started wondering if we've ever had a player with the combination of shooting range, killer instinct, driving ability, and all-around offensive repertoire that Austin Rivers will be bringing to Duke next year?

    Who would be considered the best offensive player to ever have played for Duke? I've only been watching Duke play since 1990, but Christian, Jay Williams, and JJ come to mind right off the bat. But did those guys have the complete game of Rivers? I know it's hard to compare guys that play different positions, but I just thought it would be an interesting topic for discussion.

    By the way, who are the top scorers for an individual season in Duke history? I wonder if Austin might be able to top that as a freshman. We'll certainly be relying on him heavily for scoring next year. I'm getting excited for next year already!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieinSoCal View Post
    I just started wondering if we've ever had a player with the combination of shooting range, killer instinct, driving ability, and all-around offensive repertoire that Austin Rivers will be bringing to Duke next year?

    Who would be considered the best offensive player to ever have played for Duke? I've only been watching Duke play since 1990, but Christian, Jay Williams, and JJ come to mind right off the bat. But did those guys have the complete game of Rivers? I know it's hard to compare guys that play different positions, but I just thought it would be an interesting topic for discussion.

    By the way, who are the top scorers for an individual season in Duke history? I wonder if Austin might be able to top that as a freshman. We'll certainly be relying on him heavily for scoring next year. I'm getting excited for next year already!
    After the incidence with kyrie this year, I refuse to anoint players before the season anymore
    9f

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieinSoCal View Post
    I just started wondering if we've ever had a player with the combination of shooting range, killer instinct, driving ability, and all-around offensive repertoire that Austin Rivers will be bringing to Duke next year?

    Who would be considered the best offensive player to ever have played for Duke? I've only been watching Duke play since 1990, but Christian, Jay Williams, and JJ come to mind right off the bat. But did those guys have the complete game of Rivers? I know it's hard to compare guys that play different positions, but I just thought it would be an interesting topic for discussion.

    By the way, who are the top scorers for an individual season in Duke history? I wonder if Austin might be able to top that as a freshman. We'll certainly be relying on him heavily for scoring next year. I'm getting excited for next year already!
    Just my opinion....

    I could see Austin Rivers average 20 pts per game, or better, next season.

    I think it is possible that Austin Rivers could eventually become the highest scoring NBA player that Duke has produced (no small feat, and certainly no sure thing).

    But, Austin next year as best ever Duke scorer?

    Art Heyman, Jeff Mullins, Johnny Dawkins, Danny Ferry, Jason Williams, JJ Redick as upperclassmen were all terrific college scorers. I don't see freshman Austin Rivers as surpassing those guys.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Raleigh
    Dunno...
    If he were to avg. 45pts a game and we were consistently losing would it matter how much he scores?

    A better metric to me would be: Can he deliver those "must have" baskets in crunch time consistently to win the game?"

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    I think a better question is can anyone guard Austin Rivers next year? He appears able to create his own shot over and over, making scoring his major strong suit. By contrast, JJ had to have help getting open shots via picks and shooting was his major strong suit.

    Guys at Duke that were un-guardable: Dawkins, Hill, Williams, Irving.

    Guys who were great scorers, but guardable: Ferry, Laettner, Langdon, Brand, Redick.

    I certainly hope Austin fits into the team concept well. It's not all about scoring on the individual level, it's about making the team the best it can be.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    Just my opinion....

    I could see Austin Rivers average 20 pts per game, or better, next season.

    I think it is possible that Austin Rivers could eventually become the highest scoring NBA player that Duke has produced (no small feat, and certainly no sure thing).

    But, Austin next year as best ever Duke scorer?

    Art Heyman, Jeff Mullins, Johnny Dawkins, Danny Ferry, Jason Williams, JJ Redick as upperclassmen were all terrific college scorers. I don't see freshman Austin Rivers as surpassing those guys.
    The best freshman scoring average - ever - was 18.1 ppg by Johnny Dawkins in '82-'83. Gene Banks is next with 17.1 ppg.

    20 ppg is not particularly likely - especially with all of the firepower around him.

  7. #7
    I think Rivers will be great, and while I hate to ever compare any situation at Duke to UNC, please remember what happened to ol' black falcon early this season. Preseason AA award ridiculousness aside, people had absolutely unrealistic expectations for him to flat out lead the team in scoring from the start and be an evil doppelganger of MJ. While he came on late in the season, I would hate to see a similar type of fanbase over-expectation/pressure situation with Austin.

    Its fine to have higher than average expectations for him given his talent and BBall IQ level, but lets not get carried away until we see his in uniform for a few games.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    The best freshman scoring average - ever - was 18.1 ppg by Johnny Dawkins in '82-'83. Gene Banks is next with 17.1 ppg.

    20 ppg is not particularly likely - especially with all of the firepower around him.
    On a friendly basis, I bet Austin does average 20 pts or better.

    One variable is whether Kyrie returns next year, although Kyrie can both score and create opportunities for others.

    But Austin Rivers is no ordinary freshman, even for a program like Duke. Keep in mind:

    Austin has already turned 19 and has an advanced offensive game
    He was the leading scorer on the U-18 national team
    His exposure to the NBA game and players through his dad is an extra plus
    Other firepower? yes, but I have trouble guessing which returning player (if not Kyrie) will be our highest scorer next year. No returnee averaged double figures in 2010-11

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Irvine, CA
    I never intended to take anything away from the great players that have come through our program or the team concept that all our players much embrace. I just think that Austin has the potential to be an all-time talent, even if it is for just one year. He seems mature beyond his years, mentally tough, polished. It's amazing to think that we could even have this discussion about an incoming freshman. But who's to say that he can't have a dominant freshman season like Durant or Melo did?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    Just my opinion....

    I could see Austin Rivers average 20 pts per game, or better, next season.

    I think it is possible that Austin Rivers could eventually become the highest scoring NBA player that Duke has produced (no small feat, and certainly no sure thing).

    But, Austin next year as best ever Duke scorer?

    Art Heyman, Jeff Mullins, Johnny Dawkins, Danny Ferry, Jason Williams, JJ Redick as upperclassmen were all terrific college scorers. I don't see freshman Austin Rivers as surpassing those guys.
    I believe that J.J. Redick and Bob Verga are the only Devils to average over average over 26 ppg. They both did this in their senior years. I don't go back to Groat's time so I don't know about his scoring averages.

    I don't recall seeing Rivers play so he may be capable of wondrous things on the court but Duke will have a number of offensive weapons next year so I will be surprised if he averages more than 20 ppg.

    gw67

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by Bojangles4Eva View Post
    ...please remember what happened to ol' black falcon early this season. Preseason AA award ridiculousness aside, people had absolutely unrealistic expectations for him to flat out lead the team in scoring from the start and be an evil doppelganger of MJ.
    Except Barnes did lead his team in scoring, so maybe those expectations weren't so unrealistic.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Except Barnes did lead his team in scoring, so maybe those expectations weren't so unrealistic.
    http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...lina-tar-heels

    Almost. Zeller beat him by a point, according to ESPN.
    “Those two kids, they’re champions,” Krzyzewski said of his senior leaders. “They’re trying to teach the other kids how to become that, and it’s a long road to become that.”

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    After the incidence with kyrie this year, I refuse to anoint players before the season anymore
    Perhaps, but it's worth noting that in the time he was able to play for Duke, Irving did not just live up to the hype, he exceeded it.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Except Barnes did lead his team in scoring, so maybe those expectations weren't so unrealistic.
    Sorry, maybe I did not put enough emphasis in the post, but I was referring to the expectations of him to lead the team right from the start, at the beginning of the season. I also indicated that he turned it on later, implying that at the end of the season he was meeting expectations, but the main point being things were very rocky over in hell in Nov - Dec.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    I agree with Roy on this one. I'm not sure about there being a lot of firepower on next year's team. Sure Seth is capable of putting up 20+ on any given night as is Dre, but can they do it night after night when there isn't a Nolan or Kyle to bear the brunt on the opposition's defensive focus? Now I might be singing a different tune if Kyrie should decide to return, but until then I'm not seeing it. The frontcourt doesn't scare anyone. Miles has the body, but what has he shown in 3 years to make anyone believe he'll suddenly become an offensive force down low. Mason is in a similar situation and that's if he even returns. Ryan has the most potential to become a scorer as he can pop from outside and midrange. If he can't develop his handle so he can pump fake and take it hard to the rack, he'll become a true all around player instead of a nice complimentary player.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    Perhaps, but it's worth noting that in the time he was able to play for Duke, Irving did not just live up to the hype, he exceeded it.
    No argument here. I don't expect Rivers to average 20 for Duke next year. I expect the team will be fairly balanced offensively. I expect Mason to take a big step forward next year (please come back) and feel that he will be a leader on the team. I also think Ryan, Andre and Seth will take advantage of more scoring responsibility. I could certainly see Austin leading the team in scoring (hopefully with lots of help from Kyrie), but think there are enough other good options on the team that he will not need to have the greatest freshman scoring season and one of the best overall scoring seasons for Duke next year.
    “Those two kids, they’re champions,” Krzyzewski said of his senior leaders. “They’re trying to teach the other kids how to become that, and it’s a long road to become that.”

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC

    correction

    I should correct one item from an earlier post.

    Based on some checking, I think Austin's birth date is 8/1/1992, which would make him 18 years old currently, and 19 when Fall semester starts. There was some talk that he could have reclassified to the high school class of 2010, but nowadays he's not unusually "old" for a graduating high schooler.

    20+ points per game for Austin this next season....anybody with me?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Roxboro, NC
    Scoring Average
    Code:
    Rk    Name,              Year    G    Pts    Avg
    1. J.J. Redick (Sr.),    2006   36   964   26.8
    2. Bob Verga (Sr.),      1967   27   705   26.1
    3. Dick Groat (Sr.),     1952   30   780   26.0
    4. Art Heyman (Jr.),     1962   24   608   25.3
    5. Dick Groat (Jr.),     1951   33   831   25.18
    6. Art Heyman (So.),     1961   25   629   25.16
    7. Art Heyman (Sr.),     1963   30   747   24.9
    8. Tate Armstrong (Jr.), 1976   27   654   24.22
    9. Jeff Mullins (Sr.),   1964   31   750   24.19
    10. Danny Ferry (Sr.),   1989   35   791   22.6
    Minimum 20 games played 
    Freshman Scoring Average
    Code:
    Rk Name,             Year    G    Pts    Avg
    1. Johnny Dawkins, 1982-83   28   506   18.1
    2. Gene Banks,     1977-78   34   581   17.1
    3. Mike Gminski,   1976-77   27   414   15.3
    4. Luol Deng,      2003-04   37   558   15.1
    5. J.J. Redick,    2002-03   33   495   15.0
    6. Jason Williams, 1999-00   34   492   14.5
    7. Elton Brand,    1997-98   21   281   13.4
    8. Jim Spanarkel,  1975-76   23   307   13.3
    9. Kyle Singler,   2007-08   34   451   13.3
    10. Carlos Boozer, 1999-00   34   443   13.0
    10. Mark Alarie,   1982-83   28   364   13.0
    Minimum 20 games played 

  19. #19
    Let's not set the bar too high for Rivers. God forbid something happens, I won't be able to take another year like we just went through with the Toe.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Except Barnes did lead his team in scoring, so maybe those expectations weren't so unrealistic.
    Barnes is an exceptional talent. It's too bad he chose to go elsewhere. He also didn't anoint himself pre-season AA. That was put on his shoulders. There should be an unwritten rule not to do that to incoming freshman. But, looking back, Barnes' second half of the season warranted him in the discussion. Also, during NCAA tourney interviews he addressed this issue and gave a mature, well-thought out response that he was trying his best as a freshman to live up to the accolade. I think he did in the Tourney.

    Per the question about Austin. He does appear to merge the best characteristics of previous Duke play-makers and shooters. He will be an effective scorer next year, but obviously, he will be even more effective if Kyrie stays as he will be the focal point of opposing defenses.

Similar Threads

  1. #1 recruit Austin Rivers commits to Duke!!!!!
    By JasonEvans in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 494
    Last Post: 03-16-2011, 09:40 PM
  2. The Perplexing Third Scorer Enigma
    By bluepenguin in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 02-20-2011, 02:14 PM
  3. Duke to play MSU in ACC-Big Ten Challenge
    By scottdude8 in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: 05-13-2010, 10:30 AM
  4. Worst play-by-play announcer in baseball
    By Jim3k in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 06-19-2007, 09:18 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •