Are We Overlooking Quinn Cook?

[FireOgilvie]

Let's be fair, though. When Cook and Thornton played in the same league, the people that did see them play thought Cook was the better player.

True, but that was pre-knee injury. Quinn definitely looked like he lost a step this last season. It's impossible to know how much of his quickness he will get back, but I'd imagine he can get somewhat close to where he was.

As far as PT, I'm guessing they'll get about even minutes; but if I had to choose, I'd say Thornton would get more based on his experience and defense. Quinn's defense could be much better if he made it more of a focus.

[magjayran]

I wonder how much the youngsters will play in those games with the trip to China/Dubai occurring just after. I'm sure they'll play some, but maybe not as much as they did last year. Somewhat like how the UNC players only played in a coupe games as they were headed to the Bahamas(?)

Good point, I had not thought about it. Last year I decided to claim that the UNC guys quit showing up just when they were about to face a bunch of Duke players. Scared to get embarrassed.

[Duke: A Dynasty]

Is Cook being underrated by us? In short I would say no not at all. I think some here are the kids in preschool who have a new toy to play with and forget about what they already got until the new wears off.

Curry will start next year because he is most deserving and pairs up better with Rivers. That should be the end of that disscussion plain and simple there is no way we start two freshmen guards and possibly a freshmen in Daniels if we get him.

So this leaves who comes off the bench... Tyler or Cook?

I believe Tyler will deff be the first to get that chance while Cook sits in learns. I am in the camp that thinks Cook will be the better pg over Tyler at some point but this year the man is Tyler. I think after Cook gets a year of experience becomes the bonafied starter over Tyler.

[sporthenry]

Every year it seems to be the same thing and I will admit I was guilty of it for the longest time but everyone always gets caught up in new potential that they fail to realize the gap between reality. Perusing some old posts

'I think Zoubek will probably play the same 10-15 minutes per game this year that he did last year. With the arrival of the more talented Mason Plumlee and assuming some development from the more athletic Miles Plumlee, there's going to be a minutes crunch in the post. So while I think he'll improve, I just don't see Zoubek having a big increase in minutes, as the talent competing with him for post minutes will improve too.'

Or on Josh
'I see him as playing primarily the 4 this year as a sub and getting 15 minutes a game. This kid will be a very solid player and should develop well this year.'

Every year we seem to get high on these guys mainly b/c we don't see their faults through their all star games or mix tapes and we see them playing against average high school players. Add in K obviously likes experience and defense and these guys have a lot of ground to make up. KI and AR are special talents but after you get past the top 10 or so recruits, you often have very sporadic success of these freshman. Kelly and Josh never saw the floor, Mason saw very limited action, Dre played b/c Duke had 3 guards for 3 spots. TT had limited success and only saw the floor b/c of KI but showed he was outclassed in the NC game. The last freshman to enjoy success at Duke not named KI seems to be EWill who was ranked 15th according to RSCI which is right about where Kelly and Mason were. Ewill was right behind Singleton and above Kemba and even he had some struggles after taking over the PG spot.

[NSDukeFan]

IMO ... Kyrie is a game-changer. Compare the first 8 games to the rest. Kyrie's foot speed and ball speed enable him to penetrate better than anyone we've had since J Will. Forcing the defense to collapse on him - drawing defenders away from others (like Mason) - is why Frank Martin said we were unguardable. That type player doesn't come along very often.

QC should be pretty much everything you describe from what I've read. He should be a terrific pass-first point guard. But, he won't be a game changer. If Kyrie decides to stay one more year so he can wear a Duke uniform rather than work with a personal trainer for a year while he waits for the NBA to work out a new CBA, we will have one of the strongest backcourts ever. We will, again, be like the team K described: we will be able to go into any restaurant and order whatever we want without regard to price. Having only one senior won't matter as much. Our athleticism will overwhelm most opponents.

Without Kyrie, we'll have to be a little more price conscious. That takes nothing away from QC or any of the other players. In the 1990s, we had Hurley with his uncanny ability to see the court. In the 2000s, we had J Will with his Superman-like speed and upper body strength. The 2010s gave us Kyrie. Players like him don't come around that often.

But, K's taken his recruiting to a new level lately. We may not be the "jet" team, but we'll be very, very good for a long time to come.

Duke is going to be fine next year whether Kyrie stays or goes (same for Mason for that matter.) Duke will be very solid at point guard either way as the original poster has indicated with the various options as well as Rivers being able to handle the ball. But, there is a big difference between any of the team's point guard options and Kyrie. I agree Kyrie is a game changer and it may not be that people are underrating Cook as just realizing that nobody is going to live up to Kyrie. That does not mean that he and our other players won't do a very good job playing point guard next year for Duke.

I think most of the time we won't be playing with a traditional point guard. From what we've seen and read about him, Austin Rivers seems to require the ball in his hands an awful lot. With someone like that, we don't need a "pure" PG and Seth Curry will be a fine running mate. Assuming Kyrie leaves I expect Seth to start and play 30+ minutes.

The biggest jump is often freshman to sophomore, so I expect the Tyler Thornton we see next year will be a much better version of what we saw this year, and what we saw this year was surprisingly good. Still, I expect his most important attribute will be defense off the bench.

Quinn Cook is currently ranked 20th by RSCI. Obviously the ranking is not the be-all, end-all, but in general players with such a ranking don't start at Duke, and don't play starters minutes unless our upper classes are short of quality alternatives (like 2000. 2006, and 2007). I'm not overlooking him, but I don't expect a difference maker.

Well said. I agree.

I was actually thinking about this too . . what happens if Kyrie DOES stay? Does Austin learn how to play off the ball after playing his entire high school career basically being the lead guard? They are good friends, but does that always translate to on-court chemistry?

I don't expect Austin would have difficulty playing off the ball with Kyrie as they did it on the U-18 team last year and I think Austin probably came to Duke to play with better players and don't expect he believes he will have the ball as much as he did in high school, though I believe he will likely have the ball a lot and will be one of the team's highest usage players, if not the highest.

Let's be fair, though. When Cook and Thornton played in the same league, the people that did see them play thought Cook was the better player.

I don't disagree with your post, but as others have said Cook's injury may be a factor as well as Thornton having played college basketball for a year and played in Duke's system (especially defensively) for a year.

Every year it seems to be the same thing and I will admit I was guilty of it for the longest time but everyone always gets caught up in new potential that they fail to realize the gap between reality. Perusing some old posts

'I think Zoubek will probably play the same 10-15 minutes per game this year that he did last year. With the arrival of the more talented Mason Plumlee and assuming some development from the more athletic Miles Plumlee, there's going to be a minutes crunch in the post. So while I think he'll improve, I just don't see Zoubek having a big increase in minutes, as the talent competing with him for post minutes will improve too.'

Or on Josh
'I see him as playing primarily the 4 this year as a sub and getting 15 minutes a game. This kid will be a very solid player and should develop well this year.'

Every year we seem to get high on these guys mainly b/c we don't see their faults through their all star games or mix tapes and we see them playing against average high school players. Add in K obviously likes experience and defense and these guys have a lot of ground to make up. KI and AR are special talents but after you get past the top 10 or so recruits, you often have very sporadic success of these freshman. Kelly and Josh never saw the floor, Mason saw very limited action, Dre played b/c Duke had 3 guards for 3 spots. TT had limited success and only saw the floor b/c of KI but showed he was outclassed in the NC game. The last freshman to enjoy success at Duke not named KI seems to be EWill who was ranked 15th according to RSCI which is right about where Kelly and Mason were. Ewill was right behind Singleton and above Kemba and even he had some struggles after taking over the PG spot.

It certainly is exciting to look at the players with high potential that are coming into the program, but you make a great point that experienced players tend to play more. Players who were ranked around the 20s in recruiting circles who are now juniors (e.g. Mason, Ryan, Andre) are more likely to play big minutes than freshmen who are ranked in the 20s (e.g. Cook, Gbinijie, Daniels.) Experience in Duke's system matters. Obviously talents like Kyrie, Kyle, Rivers will play as soon as they get on campus.

Duke looks to have some great players to play the point guard position for the next several years.

[MCFinARL]

There is a nice article on Cook in today's Washington Post. He'll be playing Thursday through Saturday in the National High School Invitational in DC (along with Austin Rivers). http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...lzB_story.html

The article notes that he is still working on rehabbing the knee; hopefully that continues to progress.

If the folks who believe we will go without a traditional point guard and start Seth and Austin (certainly a plausible scenario--Duke has lots of recent experience with non-tradional point guards) are right, then maybe we won't see Quinn on the court much next year. But he does seem like the kind of player who might get increasing time as Coach K works with midseason lineup changes.

[adukeforduke]

Quinn Cook will be an excellent player for duke. TT is a nice role player but honestly I dont think he is good enough to play starters minutes for Duke. Ive seen Cook play a couple of times and I can tell you he is really really good. Plus I saw him when he was still not a 100% due to his knee injury. He has an excellent shot and surprisingly nice drive to the basket. Most importantly, he is one of the most self-confident players on the court I have ever seen. Assuming Kyrie leaves, the starting PG spot his most likely his. If this doesnt occur during his freshmen year, it will most certainly happen during his Sophomore year.

[jv001]

Quinn Cook will be an excellent player for duke. TT is a nice role player but honestly I dont think he is good enough to play starters minutes for Duke. Ive seen Cook play a couple of times and I can tell you he is really really good. Plus I saw him when he was still not a 100% due to his knee injury. He has an excellent shot and surprisingly nice drive to the basket. Most importantly, he is one of the most self-confident players on the court I have ever seen. Assuming Kyrie leaves, the starting PG spot his most likely his. If this doesnt occur during his freshmen year, it will most certainly happen during his Sophomore year.

Since you've seen him play, how is his on the ball defense? Does he take plays off on defense? How well does he move his feet? My biggest worry next year is not offense, but how will our defense be? If we lose Mason, we lose a good shot blocker. Therefore we need to guard better on the perimeter. GoDuke!

[gwlaw99]

I was actually thinking about this too . . what happens if Kyrie DOES stay? Does Austin learn how to play off the ball after playing his entire high school career basically being the lead guard? They are good friends, but does that always translate to on-court chemistry?

They played very well together on the FIBA under 18 team .

[stillcrazie]

Quinn Cook will be an excellent player for duke. TT is a nice role player but honestly I dont think he is good enough to play starters minutes for Duke. Ive seen Cook play a couple of times and I can tell you he is really really good. Plus I saw him when he was still not a 100% due to his knee injury. He has an excellent shot and surprisingly nice drive to the basket. Most importantly, he is one of the most self-confident players on the court I have ever seen. Assuming Kyrie leaves, the starting PG spot his most likely his. If this doesnt occur during his freshmen year, it will most certainly happen during his Sophomore year.

My impression of Quinn is that he has a swagger that we could use, somewhat like the confidence of Smith, but with more of an attitude. He also seems well-liked by other players and this could bode well for team chemistry. I hope he surprises us and is able to make a substantial contribution next year.

[adukeforduke]

i feel Cook's defense will help the team next year. His foot speed on d is fine. Also, his quickness is only going to improve as his knee rehab continues to progress. I dont feel like his ball pressure is as good as Kyrie's or nolan's but it is good enough to allow K to use his pressure defense. I also think he has quick hands that will allow him to steal the ball for a easy basketball occasionally.

[adukeforduke]

My impression of Quinn is that he has a swagger that we could use, somewhat like the confidence of Smith, but with more of an attitude. He also seems well-liked by other players and this could bode well for team chemistry. I hope he surprises us and is able to make a substantial contribution next year.

I certainly agree with your statement. He is definitely going to the emotional leader on the team 3-4 years down the road.

[COYS]

Also, his quickness is only going to improve as his knee rehab continues to progress.

As someone who had a meniscus tear in both knees during my basketball playing days (not that I was ever really that good), I wouldn't worry about Quinn's knee. He's going to be fine after an offseason of getting his leg strength back. I would imagine that any lingering effects from the injury are mostly due to his busy game schedule preventing him from doing concentrated strength work. Barring any strange setbacks, he will probably be at least as quick and explosive pre-injury by the time basketball starts up in the fall.

[DevilYouthCoach]

Let's be fair, though. When Cook and Thornton played in the same league, the people that did see them play thought Cook was the better player.

I know I am biased because my son goes to DeMatha High School in DC where Quinn Cook played, but I watched Cook and Thornton play against one another several times, and Quinn always seemed the better player to me. He plays excellent defense, penetrates well off the dribble, and is a good scorer too. He was the go-to guy several times at the end of games. I have no idea how that will translate into college ball.

[johnb]

I didn't know week to week who was going to start this past year, so my prognostication skills for 9 months from now are limited, but I think we do better when we have a floor general. NS became an absolute star as a de-facto PG, but I would still have preferred that we have a rock solid--if limited--PG who knew his role and allowed people like NS and SC (and everyone else on the team) to do what they do best. And, while it may be disrespectful to our best player, I was never convinced that NS made the other guys on the team better. Without him, we would obviously have lost some games, but several of our starters seemed to wake up when KI was on the floor, presumably because the passes were crisper, more timely, more accurate, something, than they were with NS.

And so for next year, I'd think the guys with point guard mentalities--TT and QC--would be much more likely to start alongside AR than SC (though SC still seems a likely starter at the 3 spot). And if KI is still around, everyone wins--including the guards with more bench time who get to practice against 2 future NBA All Stars.

[mcdukie]

I think Quinn Cook will get substantial minutes next season. I have seen him and TT head up. I like both, but Cook does some things you just can't teach. He has a certain swagger on the court that will benefit us. I am not saying he will start initially but if KI leaves he has a good chance to start at some point for us. The article in the Washington Post today pointed out that he is still getting his knee issues straight. If he is healthy, he plays. Either way it sure is good to be a Duke fan. The stuff we "argue" over, other people wish they had these problems. I am looking forward to how the whole point guard thing plays out.

[Kedsy]

And so for next year, I'd think the guys with point guard mentalities--TT and QC--would be much more likely to start alongside AR than SC (though SC still seems a likely starter at the 3 spot).

No offense intended, but the situations in which you think we "do better" and what is "much more likely" may be two very different things. Unless Kyrie returns, Austin is almost certainly going to play the Nolan role of having the ball in his hands most of the time. I doubt that having a PG in the lineup who won't get the ball all that much would be a priority over having another potent scorer (Seth starting) or putting our defense at a disadvantage (having Tyler or Quinn starting and putting Seth at the 3). I assume Quinn and Tyler will both get minutes (assuming Quinn is ready to play college defense, which nobody knows at this point), but I'd be very surprised if either of them start or play starters minutes.

Regarding your parenthetical, Seth is much too small to see significant time at the 3, although it is possible that he could play the 2 and Austin could slide to the 3. I think we'll have to see how capable Austin is of defending bigger SFs before we can make that call.

[NSDukeFan]

No offense intended, but the situations in which you think we "do better" and what is "much more likely" may be two very different things. Unless Kyrie returns, Austin is almost certainly going to play the Nolan role of having the ball in his hands most of the time. I doubt that having a PG in the lineup who won't get the ball all that much would be a priority over having another potent scorer (Seth starting) or putting our defense at a disadvantage (having Tyler or Quinn starting and putting Seth at the 3). I assume Quinn and Tyler will both get minutes (assuming Quinn is ready to play college defense, which nobody knows at this point), but I'd be very surprised if either of them start or play starters minutes.

Regarding your parenthetical, Seth is much too small to see significant time at the 3, although it is possible that he could play the 2 and Austin could slide to the 3. I think we'll have to see how capable Austin is of defending bigger SFs before we can make that call.

I am hoping that Austin (and hopefully Gbinijie, and even more hopefully Daniels? and/or Hairston?) will be able to defend the 3 effectively, along with Andre. There is certainly the possibility (though far from proven at this point) that Duke could have a lot of versatile defenders the next few years.

[jv001]

No offense intended, but the situations in which you think we "do better" and what is "much more likely" may be two very different things. Unless Kyrie returns, Austin is almost certainly going to play the Nolan role of having the ball in his hands most of the time. I doubt that having a PG in the lineup who won't get the ball all that much would be a priority over having another potent scorer (Seth starting) or putting our defense at a disadvantage (having Tyler or Quinn starting and putting Seth at the 3). I assume Quinn and Tyler will both get minutes (assuming Quinn is ready to play college defense, which nobody knows at this point), but I'd be very surprised if either of them start or play starters minutes.

Regarding your parenthetical, Seth is much too small to see significant time at the 3, although it is possible that he could play the 2 and Austin could slide to the 3. I think we'll have to see how capable Austin is of defending bigger SFs before we can make that call.

I firmly agree with this comment. Seth is not big enough or strong enough to play the 3. But he can play one of the guard positions. And it looks like Austin will have the ball in his hands a lot. We will need a 3rd scorer after Seth and Austin or we will need the scoring spread out more than we've seen in the past couple of years. I think we will see the latter and not the former. We have the guys to do that. The defense will be what separates us from the very good teams and the average teams. I put my trust in Coach K and the staff to get us to be a very good team. GoDuke!

[DukieinSoCal]

Nice article up on espn comparing the current McD's recruits to NBA players, and Quinn is compared to Darren Collison. It's a nice comparison and hopefully, it turns out to be accurate. If it is, we're going to be in great shape at PG for the next 2-3 years.