Sweet 16/Elite 8 discussion thread

[moonpie23]

wow, if you guys had to choose one of these three teams to win it all, which would you choose?

UNC, UCONN, or Kentucky?

ABC ...abc...

[Atlanta Duke]

wow, if you guys had to choose one of these three teams to win it all, which would you choose?

UNC, UCONN, or Kentucky?

UConn - since Calhoun already has won it all twice UConn winning a third one will not be as distasteful to me as Calipari temporarily winning his first title until it is vacated or losing bragging rights back to the Carolina grads I know

[g-money]

Someone on this board observed that a team usually has only one game in the tournament where they play lights out great (e.g. - Duke against WVU last year)

Unfortunately for Duke that game for Arizona was on Thursday night

I dread having to root for UConn next Saturday if Kentucky does not take out Carolina tomorrow - rooting for Calipari and Calhoun back to back just ain't right

Let's see: Arizona regresses to the mean just one game after playing the game of their lives against us, a Butler team we beat on a neutral court is back in the final four, a Carolina team we beat handily on a neutral court is knocking on the door...man, this tournament pisses me off sometimes!

[El_Diablo]

The Duke Curse strikes AZ early.

The Wildcats shot 60% from 3-point land against us, but only manage 4-21 (19%) to lose by two to the UConnvicts.

[loldevilz]

As much as people hate Calipari, he has done a masterful coaching job this season. And you can't take that away from him (unless the NCAA does in fact take it away from him).

Josh Harrellson is a great big man. Brandon Knight is fantastic. I think they are going to beat Kansas for a championship in a rematch of the 2008 championship game.

[devildeac]

wow, if you guys had to choose one of these three teams to win it all, which would you choose?

UNC, UCONN, or Kentucky?

d) none of the above
e) meteor
f) Butler

[devildeac]

Let's see: Arizona regresses to the mean just one game after playing the game of their lives against us, a Butler team we beat on a neutral court is back in the final four, a Carolina team we beat handily on a neutral court is knocking on the door...man, this tournament pisses me off sometimes!

I think K had it right in his post-game presser on Thursday. The tourney can be cruel. This is almost a nightmare come true scenario for Duke fans and anyone believing in truth, justice and the American way (well, maybe I exaggerate a bit).

[Kedsy]

I think they are going to beat Kansas for a championship in a rematch of the 2008 championship game.

Except the 2008 championship game involved Memphis.

[gofurman]

I think K had it right in his post-game presser on Thursday. The tourney can be cruel. This is almost a nightmare come true scenario for Duke fans and anyone believing in truth, justice and the American way (well, maybe I exaggerate a bit).

actually I like Butler returning to the final four - makes people quit with the Duke had it so easy last year junk. Here is Butler iun the FF WITHOUT Hayward ! Think about what that says about the team we beat to win the title - this year's team (ok, less a yer of maturation) but without Hayward and a few key subs. That was a legit team we beat. I would love to see Butler win it all this year

[loldevilz]

actually I like Butler returning to the final four - makes people quit with the Duke had it so easy last year junk. Here is Butler iun the FF WITHOUT Hayward ! Think about what that says about the team we beat to win the title - this year's team (ok, less a yer of maturation) but without Hayward and a few key subs. That was a legit team we beat. I would love to see Butler win it all this year

On the other hand we crushed Butler earlier in the season and we crushed UNC. Both are alive and we are at home.

I could care less if other people thought we had a hard road. Winning the tournament is hard enough. Do you think Butler cares that they were in the easiest bracket?

[uh_no]

On the other hand we crushed Butler earlier in the season and we crushed UNC. Both are alive and we are at home.

I could care less if other people thought we had a hard road. Winning the tournament is hard enough. Do you think Butler cares that they were in the easiest bracket?

FIrst, UNC and butler are both HUGELY improved since the beginning of the season, its ridiculous how much better they are now than they were back then. Second, 'easiest bracket' is sort of a misnomer, since it really only means 'easiest road for the #1 seed should all the other top seeds in the backet win' Butler knocked off PITT for god sakes...pitt...they've had a much harder road than kansas has had...and kansas' bracket was supposed to have been 'tougher'.

Uh_no's road rankings

#1 UK (should they win) knocking off both west virginia and OSU and UNC..3 tough games, one against the 'best' team in the country
#2 Butler (taking out pitt, wisconsin, and florida) 3 tough games, none against the 'best' team in the country
#3 Uconn (taking out SDSU and Arizona) 2 tough games
#4 by a looooong shot Kansas taking out the city of richmond...twice...the road to the NIT final 4 would have been tougher

should UNC win, they move down into the 3 slot...uconn's game against SDSU > UNC's against marquette...meaning butler would have had the hardest road

[Saratoga2]

I have a question which arose from both the Butler/Florida game (2 times) and the UCONN/Arizona game.

In all these cases, the team got the ball back with about 1 minute to play either leading, tied or down by one. They proceeded to take the time down to less than 10 seconds on the clock before seriously initiating the offense and then were unsuccessful, leaving their opponents with 25 seconds or so to go for the last and winning shot.

In Butler's case, they were lucky in both regulation time and in the overtime that Florida was inept in scoring and instead of driving to the basket and taking an easy shot or foul shots, they wound up with a weak 3 point shot. I thought Butler should have gone for their shot early in the clock, saving themselves 10 seconds for the final shot. Butler did win, but it was only due to Florida's ineptness at the end.

The same was true for Arizona, however, they did get the ball back with about 10 seconds left and did put up two 3 point tries, either one of which would have been the game winner. They couldn't miss against us but were shooting poorly from 3 against UCONN.

I would be interested in who would advocate a two for one scenario in end of gaame situations like these.

[gumbomoop]

I have a question which arose from both the Butler/Florida game (2 times) and the UCONN/Arizona game.

In all these cases, the team got the ball back with about 1 minute to play either leading, tied or down by one. They proceeded to take the time down to less than 10 seconds on the clock before seriously initiating the offense and then were unsuccessful, leaving their opponents with 25 seconds or so to go for the last and winning shot.

In Butler's case, they were lucky in both regulation time and in the overtime that Florida was inept in scoring and instead of driving to the basket and taking an easy shot or foul shots, they wound up with a weak 3 point shot. I thought Butler should have gone for their shot early in the clock, saving themselves 10 seconds for the final shot. Butler did win, but it was only due to Florida's ineptness at the end.

I would be interested in who would advocate a two for one scenario in end of game situations like these.

Coach K, Dean Smith, Roy Williams, me, and many DBR posters.

Like you, I am appalled that all coaches do not have a standard game plan, with a couple of play options, in just this situation. I am anal enough to think it makes a difference - playing the percentages wise - exactly when you shoot the ball, to best-guess when you'd get the ball back after the opponent gets the ball for its possession. I tend to want my team - Duke - to shoot it with 48-50 seconds left. This makes it difficult for the opponent then to get a 2-for-1, but, should the other team take most of the 35-second clock for its shot, Duke still gets roughly 10-12 seconds for a final shot.

[Kedsy]

Coach K, Dean Smith, Roy Williams, me, and many DBR posters.

Like you, I am appalled that all coaches do not have a standard game plan, with a couple of play options, in just this situation. I am anal enough to think it makes a difference - playing the percentages wise - exactly when you shoot the ball, to best-guess when you'd get the ball back after the opponent gets the ball for its possession. I tend to want my team - Duke - to shoot it with 48-50 seconds left. This makes it difficult for the opponent then to get a 2-for-1, but, should the other team take most of the 35-second clock for its shot, Duke still gets roughly 10-12 seconds for a final shot.

I agree, in theory. In practice, in these situations there seems to always be a scrum for a rebound, which takes a fair amount of time and throws all the numbers off. Which makes the percentages a lot more complicated to figure out.

[gumbomoop]

I agree, in theory. In practice, in these situations there seems to always be a scrum for a rebound, which takes a fair amount of time and throws all the numbers off. Which makes the percentages a lot more complicated to figure out.

And I agree with you [often enough that it should trouble both of us] about the unexpected that throws the plan off. But I contend that there should be a plan, planned and practiced in practice. The key to my view is the phrase, "playing the percentages," which - here perhaps, and happily, we differ - I do not think are complicated to figure out. That is, if "figure out" means, "What should we do to try to get 2-for-1," as opposed to, "How can we be certain that our 2-for-1 strategy will work almost every time."

It would be interesting, but close to impossible, to study this 2-for-1 over an entire season, to see how often - what percentage of the time - the strategy works to get... 2-for-1 [which is different from winning the game]. And, though I haven't thought about it, what percentage would "justify" the strategy? 75%? Surely too high. 25%? Good enough? I don't know.

[moonpie23]

Kansas getting Arizona'd by VCU right now...

hey Jay bilas....tell me again why they don't deserve to be in...

[sporthenry]

Live by the 3? It is funny how many teams that lived by the 3 are still playing. Sure you have some flame out like Louisville but Butler, Wisconsin, Michigan, Arizona, VCU, OSU, and even Kentucky all relied on the 3 as much as Duke and had solid tournaments.

But this performance by VCU certainly shows Duke's loss to Zona wasn't that bad.

[Atlanta Duke]

The trick will be for VCU to avoid just sitting on the lead in the second half and losing it in the process, but for now I cannot believe how this tournament has opened up for whichever team comes out of what was Duke's side of the bracket.

KU fans must be in shock to see VCU pulling a Northern Iowa on the Jayhawks

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

Still a lot of time left in the game, but I just want to point out I think VCU has been the most impressive team in the tournament:

Mar 16
vs
USC*
W59-46

Mar 18
vs
GTWN*
W74-56

Mar 20
vs
PUR*
W94-76

Mar 25
vs
FSU*
W72-71 OT

Mar 27
vs
KU*
41-27 1st Half

They do an incredible job switching while staying right up in the handlers face, and no team so far can seem to handle the variation of defenses thrown at them.

If they win, I think the test against Butler will be difficult as Butler will have more time than most teams have had to watch tape and get ready for VCU. Either way if VCU wins here, they have a very fair chance to make it to the finals (which would make them the first 11 seed ever in the finals, correct?).

Barkley seems to be arguing that Kansas just isn't playing well, but I think that's mostly due to VCU, not to Kansas. Kansas hasn't seen a team like VCU at all this season. Yes Kansas has missed free throws, but I think it's due to them being rattled beyond what they had imagined and they aren't handling the pressure well.

Anyways, they've been the most entertaining team for me to watch so far and I hope they stick around!

[Duvall]

Kansas getting Arizona'd by VCU right now...

hey Jay bilas....tell me again why they don't deserve to be in...

VCU had a mediocre season. Two really good subsequent weeks haven't changed that.

Now, you could argue that with an absurd 68-team field there are plenty of teams in the tournament that didn't deserve to be in, and that's quite true. But that doesn't make VCU's body of work any less mediocre.