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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Talking MBB S16: Duke v. Arizona Pre-game and In-Game Thread

    First a big positive: Is it really true that since 1986 (26 years) Duke has gone at least as far as the Sweet Sixteen 20 times -- all but 1993, '95, '96, '97, 2007, '08?

    This year Duke draws 5th seeded Arizona, the PAC-10 regular season champ, who just beat Texas in a miracle finish. Zona, trailing by two at the 0:12 second mark with Texas having the ball, won by (a) a Texas five-second violation, (b) a brilliant inbounds pass, (c) a feed to star Derrick Williams, who was fouled and threw up a prayer -- which was answered. and (d) a made free throw for the one-point margin. Texas failed to get off a good shot in the scrum at the other end.

    Questions for the game (my thoughts, at least):

    1. How does Duke guard Derrick Williams, who is the only double-digit scorer on the Cats (19.2) and the tallest starter at 6-8? I guess we may see if the Plumlees can handle him. Zona is about the size of Michigan but seemed very athletic. Seven -footers Natyazhka and Jacobson play fewer than ten minutes and five minutes, respectively.

    2. Will Kyrie merge better into the offense? I thought there was a lot of hesitation when both Nolan and Kyrie were on the floor.

    3. Will Duke show the speed and energy needed to control the high-speed Cats? These kinds of teams have caused trouble in the past, and it may take better defense than against Michigan.

    4. Will Duke continue to have 5-6 scorers on the court Thursday (four in double figures today)? It is a really positive development of the last two weeks.

    sagegrouse

  2. #2
    The one thign about Williams is allot of times hes unselfish almost to a fault,hes not the type of player who will impose his will on the game for 40 minutes..

  3. #3
    I'm glad we play Arizona. I feel like we match up a lot better with them, rather Texas.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    My biggest concern against AZ is their lack of size/speed. Lack of size because Williams is their tallest starter and the Plums can't guard him, he shoots it from 3 and drives it too well. Therefore, who does that leave the Plums to guard??? AZ will spread us out and drive it.

    I would expect to see a lot of Kelly and Singler on Williams. The Plums might not get many minutes in this game based on matchups.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Charlotte
    I've checked the CBS site and couldn't find the time of the game. I am assuming it is Thursday, and the early game. Does anyone know for sure?

    My wife bought tickets to go see Prince. I hate to put everything on hold this time of year, and feel like if I plan to do something on the weekend it will turn out to be when Duke plays. Not bad, considering the alternative is Duke not playing.

    Any help is appreciated. We got through, look forward to playing another team we have a history with.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    First a big positive: Is it really true that since 1986 (26 years) Duke has gone at least as far as the Sweet Sixteen 20 times -- all but 1993, '95, '96, '97, 2007, '08? ...
    What was achieved each year:

    Nat'l champs: 1991, 1992, 2001, 2010
    Nat'l champ game: 1986, 1990, 1994, 1999
    Final Four: 1988, 1989, 2004
    Elite 8: 1998
    Sweet 16: 1987, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2009, 2011 (thus far)
    Final 32: 1993, 1997, 2008
    Final 64: 1996, 2007
    No tourney: 1995

    Too blessed.

  7. #7
    Why can't the Plums guard Williams? He seems like a much more refined Mason. He shoots it much better from the perimeter and he can actually finish on his dribble drives. But luckily,we don't need Mason to outscore him, we just need him to play solid defense on him. I don't think this game will be like the one today where the Plumlees couldn't guard anyone as Thompson held Williams in check until he got into foul trouble.

    Singler will have his hands full with Hill and Duke could go to Singler at the 4 quite a bit but that puts KI and Nolan on the court at the same time after another week of practice. So that leaves about 15 fouls to put on Williams and it'd be nice to see KI draw a few fouls on Williams.

    But my main concern is their 3 point shooting. They won't spread the floor as much as Michigan and hopefully, K uses his extra days to prepare a nice game plan.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post

    2. Will Kyrie merge better into the offense? I thought there was a lot of hesitation when both Nolan and Kyrie were on the floor.
    You ain't kidding. There was a TON of hesitation. Put it this way. In the 2nd half, Kyrie came in at 16:01 and played for around 3 minutes, scoring 0 and racking up 0 assists.

    He came back into the game from 9:20 till the end. He scored 2 FTs in the first 30 seconds, racked up 1 assist....and then contributed 0 offense (and only like 2 shot attempts) until the basket with 32 seconds left.

    In other words, he was INVISIBLE for 8 minutes on O. In essence we would have been better with Seth and Dre on the floor at once.

    None of this says anything about his D. It certainly looked good. But against Arizona and if we advance UConn or SDSU, he would need to be productive on O to merit the play he got today. And he just looked tentative and unsure of how to not take the game out of Nolan's hands.
    <devildeac> anyone playing drinking games by now?
    7:49:36<Wander> drink every qb run?
    7:49:38<loran16> umm, drink every time asack rushes?
    7:49:38<wolfybeard> @devildeac: drink when Asack runs a keeper
    7:49:39 PM<CB&B> any time zack runs, drink

    Carolina Delenda Est

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Randolph View Post
    Lack of size because Williams is their tallest starter and the Plums can't guard him, he shoots it from 3 and drives it too well.
    Match-ups work both ways. When dealing with a quality player such as Williams it is best to go right at him. We should dump the ball inside to Miles and/or Mason and force Williams to defend the Plumlees. It wouldn't hurt my feelings to see the Arizona All America pick up a couple of early fouls.

    There are multiples strategies available to employ. I expect we will frequently double team Williams when he has the ball. Of course it will all start with ball pressure on Arizona's point guard who has to deal with Nolan Smith's incessant defensive presence.
    Bob Green
    United States Navy (Retired)
    @JBobGreen

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by CLT Devil View Post
    My wife bought tickets to go see Prince. I hate to put everything on hold this time of year, and feel like if I plan to do something on the weekend it will turn out to be when Duke plays.
    One of the very, very few things I would ever even consider choosing over a Duke tournament game is a Prince concert. He was the best live performer I have ever seen, and even though I have seen a number of other exceptional concerts, there isn't even a close second.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    Match-ups work both ways. When dealing with a quality player such as Williams it is best to go right at him. We should dump the ball inside to Miles and/or Mason and force Williams to defend the Plumlees. It wouldn't hurt my feelings to see the Arizona All America pick up a couple of early fouls.

    There are multiples strategies available to employ. I expect we will frequently double team Williams when he has the ball. Of course it will all start with ball pressure on Arizona's point guard who has to deal with Nolan Smith's incessant defensive presence.
    Bob, while I agree that the match-up could work both ways (and I'd love for us to get him in foul trouble), I can't see the Plums doing much against him offensively in the post. I mean we couldn't do anything against an even smaller, not as talented Michigan frontcourt. The Plums are way to inconsistent in the post and have a limited repetoire of moves. Nobody fears Duke when we throw it into the post

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by sporthenry View Post
    Why can't the Plums guard Williams? He seems like a much more refined Mason.

    This is like saying Tim Duncan is a "much more refined" Casey Sanders.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Randolph View Post
    My biggest concern against AZ is their lack of size/speed. Lack of size because Williams is their tallest starter and the Plums can't guard him, he shoots it from 3 and drives it too well. Therefore, who does that leave the Plums to guard??? AZ will spread us out and drive it.

    I would expect to see a lot of Kelly and Singler on Williams. The Plums might not get many minutes in this game based on matchups.
    I'm worried about the same exact thing. I much prefer when Duke goes big, but against Arizona we may see a lot of Dawkins. I think Mason and Singler will be out there on Williams. They are the only ones that have anywhere near his Athleticism.

    Of course Coach K put Kelly on VPI's Allen so who knows?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by wilson View Post
    One of the very, very few things I would ever even consider choosing over a Duke tournament game is a Prince concert. He was the best live performer I have ever seen, and even though I have seen a number of other exceptional concerts, there isn't even a close second.
    And the dude can ball.

    Game, blouses!

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by KandG View Post
    This is like saying Tim Duncan is a "much more refined" Casey Sanders.
    Well I don't think the gap is that far. And again, Mason isn't expected to score, he just has to play defense on him and Williams was really bothered by Thompson's length today. If Mason can stay in front but contest his outside shot, Williams is ripe for some offensive fouls when he barrels to the basket.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    The big guys will have to communicate a lot and help each other out on Williams. Double downs and help side D will be necessary to slow him. I think Kyle could be the designated helper in many situations. We saw him play that role vs. Jordan Williams. I'm most concerned with Williams abilities on the perimeter because it could pull all our defenders out of the paint. We'll need the guards to help crash the boards and cover the backside on D.

    Most importantly, Duke needs to control the pace and maintain their focus, energy and intensity for 40 minutes. All tough games the rest of the way.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by sporthenry View Post
    Well I don't think the gap is that far. And again, Mason isn't expected to score, he just has to play defense on him and Williams was really bothered by Thompson's length today. If Mason can stay in front but contest his outside shot, Williams is ripe for some offensive fouls when he barrels to the basket.
    I expect Mason to score. We cant win playing 4 on 5 or 3 on 5. He and Miles have gotten some nice looks inside the last 4-5 games. They've also really gone after offensive rebounds with relish too.

    We do need to use out mass on the inside though. Punish anyone who comes into the paint. We've got the bodies to do so, and it would be nice to make Arizona a perimeter team.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    I expect Mason to score. We cant win playing 4 on 5 or 3 on 5. He and Miles have gotten some nice looks inside the last 4-5 games. They've also really gone after offensive rebounds with relish too.

    We do need to use out mass on the inside though. Punish anyone who comes into the paint. We've got the bodies to do so, and it would be nice to make Arizona a perimeter team.
    Well he will probably get some easy buckets but I'm saying we won't be dropping it down to the Plumlees in the post 20 times a game. I expect to see some oops and easy back door cuts and baskets but I doubt he is posting up on Williams too much unless we are trying to draw some fouls.

  19. #19
    Vegas opened with Duke as a 10 point favorite.

  20. #20

    Prince Concert??

    I thought Prince. got knocked out in the 2nd round by Kentucky....

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