Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 36
  1. #1

    Bad News, Good News

    The Bad News:
    Our underutilized benched was beaten into the ground by Ol' Roy's 80-man rotation. What was K thinking playing (basically) a 6-man rotation against them?

    The Good News:
    We'll get to see some minutes from Zoubek, Pocius, and Thomas due to the inevitable suspension coming to Henderson.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Redding, CT

    Minutes

    Before you start yakking about minutes played, take a look at the box score and see what Brian, Lance, and Marty did in the minutes they got today.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Carolina Beach NC

    He can yak Fish- and so can you, and I, and.....

    And a LOT of us agree on the bench thing. You may be right, but so may we. If you can't see we got tired in both games, well, I don't know what else to say. To talk about what the bench produced, as oyu say, Marty and Lance didn't have enough minutes to even get into a flow. And I personally thought Zou was decent.

    Let me talk about Marty a second too. He made a strong drive to the hole, and did not score. he was taken out, and basically did not play anymore. At least he takes the ball strong to the hole and plays with intensity and energy. Maybe he tried too hard since he gets so little playing time. I really think that is part of it. At least he tries to make things happen.

    Just because you have complete faith in what Coach decides to do doesn't mean he is always right. I think if our bench had been developed more, we would be better than we are now. Maybe I'm wrong and you are right. But I think we'd be better than 8-8. That being said, I still think we have the best staff in America. But I don't think even they are perfect. I ask you, do you think they are? I wonder because everytime someone talks about lack of bench play you get very defensive.

  4. #4
    Zoubek- 6min,0 pts,2 rebs, 2 fls
    Pocius- 3min, 0 pts,0 reb
    Thomas-2 pts, 1 reb, 3 fls
    Your Point???

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Redding, CT

    Depth

    How long do you leave guys in when they aren't producing? Lance was in for 6 minutes and got 1 rebound. You talk about Marty's offense, but he's about the lowest on the team in points-per-minutes production.

    I never said the staff was infallible. They just know more than I do about who to play when.

  6. #6
    McRoberts - 36min - 9pts - 2ast - 6to
    Sheyer -35min - 10pts - 2ast - 1to
    McClure -16min -0pts - 0ast - 0to

    Josh and Jon took 7 and 8 shots respectively. You can't have guys play that many minutes and have such limited impact on the game. Those are reserve player numbers and they are supposedly two of our best. If your main guys aren't going to make more of an effort than that, it would only seem logical to give someone else a chance, right?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Fish80 View Post
    How long do you leave guys in when they aren't producing? Lance was in for 6 minutes and got 1 rebound. You talk about Marty's offense, but he's about the lowest on the team in points-per-minutes production.

    I never said the staff was infallible. They just know more than I do about who to play when.
    more than the 20 seconds marty got before he was yanked. here are minutes played for everyone but the guys on the end of the bench.

    McClure 16
    McRoberts 36
    Scheyer 35
    Nelson 35
    Paulus 31
    Henderson 30
    Thomas 6
    Pocius 3
    Zoubek 6

    Terry 29
    Hansbrough 30
    Wright 30
    Miller 10
    Lawson 29
    Thompson 13
    Green 10
    Ellington 15
    Ginyard 20
    Frasor 9

    so we had 5 guys play AT LEAST 30 minutes plus mcclure with 16 and then basically nothing (that's called a 6-man rotation). unc played NOBODY more than 30 minutes and had 9 guys with 10+ minutes and a 10th with 9 minutes (that's called a deep bench). what was k thinking trying to beat unc with a 6-man rotation? it wasn't all that shocking to see our guys out of gas at the end. our minutes played is even more glaring when you take into account the fact that paulus and mcbob both were in foul trouble in the 2nd half.

  8. #8

    Lance

    Im not trying to start rumors here, i have no info, its just speculation
    Last edited by Julio; 03-05-2007 at 09:43 AM. Reason: speculation

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Redding, CT

    Play Them When?

    We were down and making a comeback. We got within two, and then it blew back to 8 and 10. Do you bring them in when we're down 10 points?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Fish80 View Post
    We were down and making a comeback. We got within two, and then it blew back to 8 and 10. Do you bring them in when we're down 10 points?
    what kind of a question is that? it's not a binary situation where you either keep them on the bench or bring them all in at one point in time. you work the bench in throughout the game just like royo did. btw, did anyone get a stopwatch on marty in the first half? that was one quick look he got.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Carolina Beach NC
    Fish- We're not stupid. We're not saying bring them in then, and I think you know that. C'mon now, please. We, or at least I, mean playing them fo ra few minutes at times earlier, so we are not so fatigued at the end. It's happened to us several times this seaon as you know.

    Let me give you a perfect example. Coaches, and players know very well when there will be a TV timeout. Say there is a dead ball about a minute before the scheduled timeout- rush a player in and replace say, Josh. He gets a minute or so of gametime rest, plus a couple of minutes for the tv timeout, for a total of 4-5 minutes. MORE than enough. If you think coaches don't do that, you really are mistaken. And maybe we should utilize that strategy more. A player averaging 35 mpg is not necessary. We have had players avg taht, and MORE for years. IE JJ, Shelden and on and on. Guys need to rest. The season is long and legs take a beating.

    C'mon Fish, you know what we're saying. Don't patronize us by saying things like you did in your last post. You know we don't want those guys to come in when 10 down. BUT, if guys are so tried they can't play defense, then even that would not be a bad strategy.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Carolina Beach NC

    GOOD observation DUKIE8

    that had to be the quickest substitution in history!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Carolina Beach NC

    ONE MORE THING Dukie8

    We are wasting our time trying to convince him. Really. You made very good points and validated your post. You used logic and common sense. But it's like trying to make a make a fish live on dry land-- Ain't gonna happen.

    Amazing, but Coach K has followers that think he can never make a mistake, so they blame players. NOT swaying you Fish, saying some..I for one think the coaches are more responsible than the kids. They are paid ( very well I might add) professionals who know criticism comes with the job description, and can or should be able to handle it.

    Kids on the other hand are just that, KIDS. I'm sure when they signed their letter of intent, they never even considered they would be talked about and criticized as they are on DBR. I won't do it----------

    OH, you know when ole Roy lost at NC State, HE took all the blame. WELL documented. I'm not being sarcastic here, but asking a real question. Has Coach K ever taken blame for a loss, or said we were not prepared? I personally do not remember that happening. After the Maryland game he blamed the kids for missing their defensive assignments, repeatedly. Was it possible the defensive game plan itself was flawed? Or was it truly all the kids fault? Just a question....

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Redding, CT
    Quote Originally Posted by imagepro View Post
    ... But it's like trying to make a make a fish live on dry land ...
    Clever.

    If Marty, Brian, and Lance didn't even get off the bench, you might have a point. But they did get minutes, and did not produce enough to merit more minutes. Why you can't see that, I don't know. And we were mounting a comeback most of the game. So if you admit you wouldn't put them in when we are down big and trying to come back, I'll reiterate my question: when would you bring them in?

    And don't just give me some cook book platitude about bridging the time out.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Fish80 View Post
    If Marty, Brian, and Lance didn't even get off the bench, you might have a point. But they did get minutes, and did not produce enough to merit more minutes. Why you can't see that, I don't know.
    Result? 8-8 conference record. I am not necessarily a "the game has passed K by" kinda guy, but I can see no response to any argument regarding K's inability to maximize the potential of his roster and how that impacts the outcome of games against competition that does.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NW Durham, NC

    Taking the blame.

    Actually, I've heard Coach K take the blame for a loss many times, though he usually refers to the whole staff. Conversely, at times he has gotten on the team. I think he treats his teams, players, and the situations differently, depending on what he thinks will work best to get the team better. He doesn't get it right all the time, but he does almost all of the time.
    -BuschDevil

    "...Man, who even now finds scarce breathing room on this vast globe, cannot retire from the Old World to some yet undiscovered continent, and wait for the slow action of such causes to replace, by a new creation, the Eden he has wasted".
    -George Perkins Marsh (1864)

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Why was imagepro banned?

    I read his, and others posts and nothing I saw warrants banning? Not at all.
    He did call me and tell me of this, but whats this all about? Fish makes his points, as does imagepro and others. Many supported imagpro also. Moreso than Fish80 on this particular subject. Whats up DBR???? I wonder if your sponsors would approve of this?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Fish80 View Post
    Clever.

    If Marty, Brian, and Lance didn't even get off the bench, you might have a point. But they did get minutes, and did not produce enough to merit more minutes. Why you can't see that, I don't know. And we were mounting a comeback most of the game. So if you admit you wouldn't put them in when we are down big and trying to come back, I'll reiterate my question: when would you bring them in?

    And don't just give me some cook book platitude about bridging the time out.
    What about having the patience to stick with those guys so they actually get the chance to contribute? Giving those three the chance to play through struggles like K does with other players?

    Roy obviously doesn't need to see immediate contribution from a player to give him minutes and to continue to give him minutes. Neither do other very successful coaches. Just seems like at Duke and only, it's all or nothing when it comes to PT.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Fish, have some more Koolaid.

  20. #20

    Shorter vs. Longer bench

    Quote Originally Posted by Chicago 1995 View Post

    Roy obviously doesn't need to see immediate contribution from a player to give him minutes and to continue to give him minutes. Neither do other very successful coaches. Just seems like at Duke and only, it's all or nothing when it comes to PT.
    And Roy is routinely criticized by UNC fans for going TOO DEEP on his bench and playing TOO MANY people. The line goes that Roy needs to shorten his bench so his best players can develop a better feel for each other rather than being so disjointed on offense.

    I just think it's ironic that people criticize K for not being more like Roy, and Roy for not being more like K.
    "There can BE only one."

Similar Threads

  1. Good news for Josh
    By jimsumner in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-10-2007, 12:05 PM
  2. Huge LAX news... we may be very, very, very good next year!!
    By JasonEvans in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 71
    Last Post: 06-06-2007, 12:15 PM
  3. Good news for my son
    By Bostondevil in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-22-2007, 11:43 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •