Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 164
  1. #41
    The documentary was engaging. I really appreciate Rose's honesty and personality in it and his perspective. To Hurley's point, Rose wouldn't have beat him out out of his position, period. Duke was stacked and Hurley is arguably one of the best PGs in NCAA history. The trashing talking in the documentary was a real account of how they felt about life in general, in addition to Duke, but it's based more on their own inability to see beyond their own stereotypes. Fair enough. It was entertaining to watch the footage of Duke taking Michigan to school. It was a stark awakening that Duke was a far better team and you can see that realization the Fab 5 had when they came back a second year. Still though, I don't understand the megalomaniacal cockiness that they felt entitled to win two championships despite all the great NBA talent that was playing in the NCAA at the time. Though they didn't say it, it's obvious they begrudgingly know they lost to the better team. Calling Duke players what they did is unfortunate, but really, the only person who looks ugly for saying it is the Fab 5. I know they were expressing how they felt then, but c'mon, would they ever say what they said in that documentary to Grant's face?

    He had more basketball talent ON THE COURT than all of them combined. He was also tough. He lifted Duke on his shoulders and got them through a brutal run o the '94 Finals. And if anyone would be stupid enough to say what was said in the documentary to his face -- I get a feeling they would have got this response:

    What did you say?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anl4PajsqeE

    Webber came across as incredibly insecure and it's no surprise he didn't appear in the documentary. I'm betting he wished he was called for the travel, and he should have been, the refs choked on the whistle. Throwing Ed Martin under the bus the way he did was probably even more astonishing and Rose's response to Webber's press conference was telling. It doesn't appear Webber will ever be contrite.

    When it comes to Fisher, I can't help but think that Coach K would have provided better leadership, but it would be the tougher path. It may have helped Webber live up to the astounding potential that he possessed. I don't think Fisher had any ability to relate to the kids and lead off the court.

    What is unfortunate about the misrepresentation of the Duke program is that Coach K does have so-called street credibility amongst players. I mean, c'mon, he came from humble inner-city beginnings in Chicago. His parents weren't born with a silver spoon in their mouths and neither was he. Their family experienced a prejudiced society in which they would modify their name so they didn't lose out on opportunities because of their polish heritage. I'm not equating this to what the Fab 5 may or may not have gone through in their youth, but I am saying that Coach K can relate on some level. Even Coach K would say he was a little street cocky in his day, and that he really grew up at West Point under Knight.

    Point is, I hope this documentary helps people realize that no matter someone's background, after they lace 'em up and the second they step across the baseline and call "next," everyone is equal on the basketball court.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Atlanta Duke View Post
    Ummm - like Corey Maggette?
    False equivilency alert!

    Magette took money from an AAU coach while he was still in high school - long before he joined the Duke program. Members of the Fab Five took money from a Michigan booster while they were playing basketball for the University of Michigan.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by allenmurray View Post
    False equivilency alert!

    Magette took money from an AAU coach while he was still in high school - long before he joined the Duke program. Members of the Fab Five took money from a Michigan booster while they were playing basketball for the University of Michigan.
    The post to which I was responding said nothing about players taking payments while enrolled in college and I certainly was not implying Maggettte was being paid while at Duke

    The statement to which I replied was this

    there is no doubt we should never recruit guys like that. By that I just mean guys who don't realize that it is a school, not just a launching pad to the NBA. We get guys there, but we expect them to grow as individuals on top of playing well.

    Corey Maggette and William Avery are two Duke recruits who it is hard to argue used Duke for much more than a launching pad for the NBA

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by allenmurray View Post
    Are folks aware that Rose produced the documentary? Imagine how differently it might have portrayed the whole thing if it hadn't been produced by one of the players on the team.
    Exactly. I found it interesting, but this simply can't be considered a true, unbiased look at the Fab Five.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    I thought the documentary was quite interesting, but extremely self-serving. Here are three highly relevant facts that apply to these so-called student-athletes, which I am sure most DBR participants know:
    a) None ever graduated from the University of Michigan
    b) From the NCAA's perspective, none ever played in the Final Four (appearances vacated)
    c) Several were implicated in serious Federal crimes

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by 4decadedukie View Post
    I thought the documentary was quite interesting, but extremely self-serving. Here are three highly relevant facts that apply to these so-called student-athletes, which I am sure most DBR participants know:
    a) None ever graduated from the University of Michigan
    b) From the NCAA's perspective, none ever played in the Final Four (appearances vacated)
    c) Several were implicated in serious Federal crimes
    Juwan Howard graduated, I remember hearing about it at the time. Not sure about the others.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Chicago, IL

    A slick work of fiction

    The documentary was nothing of the kind. It was propaganda produced by Rose and ESPN with an assist from David Brandon, the current AD at UM.

    They completely glossed over the Ed Martin situation. Ed Martin ran numbers games in the auto plant he worked at and had ties to organized crime. He got in with all the players in the major Detroit high schools and also had close ties to Perry Watson, the former U of D head coach and Rose's high school coach at Detroit Southwestern who was hired by Fisher at Michigan.

    As for the players themselves, they had an impact on the culture of basketball, but much of that was previously started by Georgetown and later UNLV. UNLV were the original anti-heroes of college basketball. The true on-court legacy of the Fab Five, and it is a considerable one, was the five freshmen starters. No one will do that again and reach the Final Four.

    It tossed Webber under the bus, rolled backward, and rolled over him again. They asked him to admit his mistakes knowing full well he can't and won't. Webber still has legal considerations from his plea deal in the case. I doubt we'll ever hear Webber's side of the story in full.

    From my username, it's obvious that I have a clear bias against UM, but I lived in Michigan and was around high school and college basketball at the time it all happened. None of this stuff was particularly well hidden, and I am shocked they blatantly ignored so many of the warts. Mitch Albom is a mouthpiece of the University of Michigan and played his role again, very well, in this documentary.

    I gave up on ESPN as a journalistic entity long ago. Even 30 for 30 only went after easy targets (SMU) while glorifying others (Miami). The fact that they put this out with so little investigation into the real story of Ed Martin is further proof that they have no interest in being journalists any longer.

    dukemsu
    Last edited by dukemsu; 03-14-2011 at 09:05 PM.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    San Francisco
    I found the show totally enthralling. And also enlightening.

    I flip-flopped emotions on several occasions. I truly felt badly for Jalen and Juwan in that they came from really tough situations, family wise. No kid deserves to miss out on the security a good parent offers.

    On the other hand, the constant complaints about everyone else making money got pretty old. From the pictures we saw, it certainly looked like they were always dressed well, living large, drinking beer and what not. I don't understand the bitterness about money, when they only spent a couple years in college before making a ton of cash.

    Ultimately, it's tough to hear someone else call your team/love/passion a bunch of "Uncle Tom's"...", but I do have respect that Jalen was able to produce this, and show clips of Laettner, Hurley, and Hill abusing them. That took courage. And he didn't cop out by only showing a few seconds of it. He showed quite a bit. The move Laettner made at Michigan was SWEET...defender buckled at the ankles and ends up on the floor.

    Anyway, I felt this show had much more substance than the HBO Documentary on UNLV. That one barely glanced at the 1991 semi-final rematch.

    The long walk of Webber when the UNC game ended was brutal. Like they said, I'm not sure Webber has ever gotten over it. Poor guy.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by Faison1 View Post
    I found the show totally enthralling. And also enlightening.

    I flip-flopped emotions on several occasions. I truly felt badly for Jalen and Juwan in that they came from really tough situations, family wise. No kid deserves to miss out on the security a good parent offers.

    On the other hand, the constant complaints about everyone else making money got pretty old. From the pictures we saw, it certainly looked like they were always dressed well, living large, drinking beer and what not. I don't understand the bitterness about money, when they only spent a couple years in college before making a ton of cash.

    Ultimately, it's tough to hear someone else call your team/love/passion a bunch of "Uncle Tom's"..., but I do have respect that Jalen was able to produce this, and show clips of Laettner, Hurley, and Hill abusing them. That took courage. And he didn't cop out by only showing a few seconds of it. He showed quite a bit. The move Laettner made at Michigan was SWEET...defender buckled at the ankles and ends up on the floor.

    Anyway, I felt this show had much more substance than the HBO Documentary on UNLV. That one barely glanced at the 1991 semi-final rematch.

    The long walk of Webber when the UNC game ended was brutal. Like they said, I'm not sure Webber has ever gotten over it. Poor guy.
    Rose also fully admitted that his perception of Laettner, Hurley, and the Duke team was wrong. He stated that "they had game man, they could play. Walking off the court after the Championship game, I was ok because I knew we lost to a better team".

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    I saw it..enjoyed it...and absolutely believe those kids were exploited by Michigan, the media, and the NCAA.

    That said...they played like punks, disrespected every team they played against, and never won squat for a title.

    I love emotion in games, intense play, and actually enjoy a little trash talk. But they often played just plain dirty as I recall.

    Nothing they did as a team or individuals advanced the college game in a positive way...IMO.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by 4decadedukie View Post
    I thought the documentary was quite interesting, but extremely self-serving. Here are three highly relevant facts that apply to these so-called student-athletes, which I am sure most DBR participants know:
    a) None ever graduated from the University of Michigan ...
    King, Jackson and Howard all graduated from UM on time, even though Howard completed courses while he was a rookie in the NBA. Rose ended up getting his degree from Maryland a few years ago (online?).

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    I doubt there is anything in the documentary that recruits don't hear regularly.
    Correct.

  13. #53
    I thought it was basically a good documentary, Rose's producer credit notwithstanding. All documentaries are biased in some way, going back to the Robert Flaherty era.

    The oddest part for me was how it jumped from Webber going pro to several years later, ignoring the 1993-94 team that lost to Arkansas in the regional final. It would've been interesting to know what was going through their minds that year. I'm sure there were moments during that season when the team had tough losses and thought "what if Webber stayed another year?".

  14. #54
    Some here have expressed appreciation for Rose's honesty... how does one really know that? They produced it, put it together and provided the personal accounts. What I know about this story is basically what they have told me.

    I, like others here, flip-flopped with my opinion as well as my emotions. I was both amazed and appalled. I shuttered at the thoughts of a Duke player ranting at the cameras as did Howard and Webber in the two scenes they showed ("we're gonna shock the world" and "mf" bleeped a few times after losing to Duke).

    Someone needs to remind Rose, that his mother was not the only mother who "busted her hump for her family." My mother worked ten hours a day in a cotton mill. She is deaf today because of the machines around which she worked. Her proudest day was when I walked out of Duke Chapel with my degree (we were evacuated from CIS because of a bomb threat). There were and are a lot of students and student athletes at Duke who were not silver-spoon born. Rose might also be reminded that Coack K's mom also "busted her hump" working jobs cleaning floors.

    Finally, with our "softies," "uncle Toms" and "overrated" "pretty boys," we won two national championships... and those young men made Duke proud. On the other hand, the "Five" left Michigan with a program in shambles, a coach fired, sordid legacies and a technical-foul time out. I'll take our "softies" any day.

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Upstate NY
    I decided to watch the Fab Five documentary because I didn't really remember much about them. I knew the nickname, they played for Michigan, and that Chris Webber called a TO that Michigan didn't have in the title game. I remember being annoyed that UNC won.

    I noticed that it was executive produced by Jalen Rose, so I figured that there would be some bias in how the story was told. As the doc pertained to Duke, I understood a bit better exactly why they felt an animosity and bitterness towards Duke. To me, it felt like it had more to do with what the guys were lacking in their own lives than anything Duke actually did. It's easier to point the finger at someone else and find reasons to dislike them than to look within yourself and ask why it bothers you so much. It seems that Jalen has matured and become more introspective in this regard. I also like that Jalen admitted that Duke players could play and that Duke deserved the win because they were better.

    Jalen's admission that he researched players to find their Achilles heel is very Machiavellian. I cannot imagine the reaction a Duke player would receive for doing that sort of thing. I get that he was playing a mental game, but it doesn't appear that he had any standards as to what would be in poor taste.

    I thought the Fab Five came across as a bit spoiled, especially in regards to their trip to Europe. They were able to ditch school and see places that many people never get to see in their lifetimes...and none of it was on their dime. Yet...they complained about it every step of the way. Instead, they focus a lot of their talk on how they were feeling "exploited" by the UofM because of all the merchandising deals, etc. I know there are conflicting opinions on this, but I feel the fact a college basketball player is getting a free education to earn their degree is a great deal. I'm not sure why they need to be compensated beyond that, especially if they have enough talent and skill to make it into the NBA...a place where they'll make lots of money. I got tired of hearing the Fab 5's whining about this. Obviously, they are astute and UoM did make a lot of money, but the Fab Five could have done a lot worse.

    Chris Webber came across as insecure and immature in the documentary. Legally, I can see why there are some issues with Webber speaking his piece now, but he had opportunities to set the record straight before. Albom talks about how Chris Webber didn't feel comfortable with the persona or whatever. I felt Webber was a sell out with his own guys, given the way he refused to take responsibility and then appeared to blame it all on Ed Martin.

    Steve Fisher did appear kind of clueless. I also felt there was a lot of protesting a little too much in terms of Fisher and his assistants talking up how much respect and control he had over his players. If the Fab Five really received all that money and those perks (well, if at least Webber did!), I don't buy that they didn't know that.

    The best thing I could say about the Fab Five is that they were early advocates of getting rid of the tightie whitey basketball shorts...lol

    I do wish the documentary was done by someone who has a more impartial voice.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia

    Did they graduate?

    I commented in my last post to this thread that none of the Feb Five had graduated from the University of Michigan. I based this on carefully reading both their personal biographies and the "Fab Five" article on Wikipedia. It now appears that I was wrong, and I apologize for my error.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    ... they ... never won squat for a title. ...
    Two regional championships are titles (although they got vacated, so they aren't, but I didn't take your comment to be about the erasure).

    They did not finish first in the Big 10 in 1992 or 1993. Of somewhat interest, Michigan lost 14 games total in 1992 and 1993, and 6/14 were to Duke and Indiana (3x each), teams known for hard-nosed, old school defense, not flash and the 'modern' game.
    Last edited by -jk; 03-15-2011 at 09:47 AM. Reason: fix quote tag

  18. #58
    The FabFive were a function of a time and a place. They were like everything in life, they were neither all good or all bad. They were both used by and using/abusing a system that is all parts charitable, honorable, profitable, offensive, lying and hypocritical.

    As for what Jalen Rose said. He never should have said "Uncle Tom" because it wasn't what he actually meant.

    Duke basketball has experienced a ton of success with a Coach and a way of doing things that has worked for them. Dukes black players have, for the most part, been the kinds of young men whose backgrounds and situations match up well with the school and the coach.

    Coach K and John Chaney are good friends. I have said this before, I think Coach K would say basketball needs the John Chaney's as well as the Mike Krzyzewski's because it needs a way to work with all kinds of different people from a variety of backgrounds.

    That is kind of what Rose meant when he said "Well, certain schools recruit a typical kind of player whether the world admits it or not. And Duke is one of those schools. They recruit black players from polished families, accomplished families. And that’s fine. That’s okay. But when you’re an inner-city kid playing in a public school league, you know that certain schools aren’t going to recruit you. That’s one. And I’m okay with it. That’s how I felt as an 18-year-old kid.”

    I don't think he is wrong and I don't think Duke or Coach K should feel the need to apologize for that. Like my father said, "That is perfectly fine, I am glad there is a place for that kind of young man to get the best opportunity available to him."

  19. #59
    I didn't watch the documentary because I really never got the big deal about the "Fab Five." The whole hype surrounding them was all created by the media and then they never lived up to anything, never did anything overly impressive to me. I just remember Duke beating them for a NC, then never really thought about them again.

    Now Jalen Rose does a documentary like there's something new, exciting, or interesting about the story? And many on this thread say it wasn't even close to accurate... not worth my time.

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    Fab 5 = Fashion statement......nothing more...nothing less..
    "One POSSIBLE future. From your point of view... I don't know tech stuff.".... Kyle Reese

Similar Threads

  1. Trailer for Girls BBall Documentary
    By ATLBaller in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-28-2010, 08:31 AM
  2. Grant Hill documentary
    By rthomas in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-12-2010, 08:37 PM
  3. HBO Produces Duke-Carolina Documentary
    By Ben Cohen in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 06-23-2008, 09:37 PM
  4. The War - Burns' Next Documentary
    By DevilAlumna in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 09-27-2007, 11:57 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •