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  1. #1

    Does the ACCT Matter?

    I was having a Duke/UNC debate with a friend who wants to win and thinks that if UNC wins the ACC tourny that will bump them up a bit in NCAA. All I can remember from Tar Heel fans is that the ACC tourny does not matter, now they need it, it will matter. I think I can recall Roy saying he does not care about it either. So why bring back Kyrie if none of this matters? Wait til NCAA round 2 like UNC did with Ty a few years ago...

    Please forgive me if this was posted some place else and move or delete it if needed.

  2. #2
    Well UNC fans are quick to dismiss the ACC Tourney b/c Duke leads them all time. So naturally, the ACCT means nothing. I do believe that the ACCT trails the Regular Season or NCAAT championships but isn't just something they can just dismiss.
    Although, these conference tourneys will be very important for seeding purposes since the gap between the different seeds is closing. If UNC wins out, they will most certainly jump Duke in seeding and could get the #2. If Duke loses @CH but wins the ACCT, I think the game is dismissed as home court and Duke gets the 2 possibly a 1.
    Kyrie coming back is different from Lawson in the sense that Lawson missed something like 5 games and probably could have played if they weren't playing Radford. Kyrie has missed 3 months and would need more time to get acclimated to game speed. With Lawson, the team was very experienced and it was more just trying to rest and give him as much time as possible. With KI, it seems more of a guy who needs as much time as possible.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Jacksonville, NC

    Of Course

    If Duke doesn't win the ACC Tourney last year, even with a co-ACC regular season (which doesn't mean what it use to) they wouldn't have gotten a No. 1 seed. The same issue as this year. If Duke wants a No. 1 seed they have to win the Tourney or at least win the Regular season Championship and get to the tourney finals, but I think they still have to win it in another down year for the ACC.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by mkline09 View Post
    If Duke doesn't win the ACC Tourney last year, even with a co-ACC regular season (which doesn't mean what it use to) they wouldn't have gotten a No. 1 seed. The same issue as this year. If Duke wants a No. 1 seed they have to win the Tourney or at least win the Regular season Championship and get to the tourney finals, but I think they still have to win it in another down year for the ACC.
    I do not understand you post. This thread is about the Tourny.

  5. #5
    Saying the ACC Tournament doesn't mean anything is like USC saying the Rose Bowl doesn't mean anything.
    ~rthomas

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    It definitely matters, the question is how much it matters? would you rather go 0-2 against UNC and win the ACC tournament (without playing UNC) or 2-0 and lose the ACCT and sweep UNC? What about Maryland? Or how about losing in the ACCT and making the sweet 16, elite 8, or final four?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    The Tourney champ is the official ACC Champion. The winner is extended the ACC's automatic bye into the NCAA tournament.

    We have many banners celebrating these championships. They look very impressive in the rafters if you haven't seen them. As a set, all the Duke banners (including four extra special ones) help make Cameron Indoor Stadium one of the coolest places on Earth.

    They matter very much. They cause chill bumps on the skin of Blue Devil Fans. Heck, I bet they have caused chill bumps on many non-Duke fans who visit.

    You shouldn't have to ask.
    Man, if your Mom made you wear that color when you were a baby, and you're still wearing it, it's time to grow up!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Agreed, UNC fans "don't care" about the ACC Title because they don't win it, NC State fans will say the same thing. It's easy to not care about something that never really involves you or your program. 8 of the last 12 titles have gone to Duke, that is incredible, when they say they don't care they are trying to downplay Duke's dominant stature over the ACC for the last decade. State fans, if they won it, would never let you hear the end of it. UNC fans probably do view it the same way we do, ie something to be proud of and put a smile on your face for the next day or two, but also a great momentum builder going into the NCAAT. I don't care what other fans say though, we (and every other team) should always try and win the ACC championship if not for pride then because it's another game and we want to win every single game.

    I'm not sure how Kyrie figures into this discussion, if he returns it will be when both he and the staff feel he is ready; the seeding that we want will not play any part in that decision.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Wink Stating the Obvious

    The ACC champion is the winner of the ACC tournament.

    Saying the ACC tournament does not matter is like saying the ACC doesn't matter and that the 17-19 games against ACC opponents are merely an elaborate ritual to determine seeding in the NCAA tournament.

    Saying the ACC tournament doesn't matter is like saying, "If I can win the NCAAs, I don't care if I lose to the guys in the neighborhood." R-i-i-i-ght!

    "Saying" the ACC tournament doesn't matter is thinking: "Duke wins it almost every year [9 of the last 12]; therefore, I have to say it doesn't matter, or I have to admit that Duke rules the roost in the ACC."

    sagegrouse

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Toledo

    It matters entirely.

    I will take it one step further. Saying the ACC Tournament doesn't matter is the same as a jumbo jet passenger saying the landing doesn't matter. Thank you for almost taking me to my destination. I had a real blast; however, you can crash the plane into that mountain now.

    The ACC Tournament crowns the ACC Champion. Per the conference by-laws. Because of this, and even moreso now that league play consists of an unbalanced schedule, the ACC Tournament means decidedly more than the regular-season "cloth award" winner. Compared to the trophy imprinted with "ACC Champion" that will be won next weekend at the Greensboro Coliseum, the Cliff Ellis first-place finisher banner that is handed out each regular season is on par with "who won the conference batting title in baseball" in its importance as a determiner of top ACC basketball team.

    Give me the ACC championship each and every time over a cloth that, when not chaperoned by the tournament title, in reality reads Not good enough.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    If we dont win the ACC tourney then people wont give us credit for being the best team in the ACC this year. We are the best. We want the hardware to prove it.

    Also, we'd slide to a #2 seed. Since 1985, 18 #1's have won the NCAAs and 6 #2's have won. So it matters in that regard too.

  12. #12
    If I remember correctly there was a year when Duke won the ACC Tournament and decided not to cut down the nets citing "unfinished business". The team got beat early in the NCAA and never got to cut down any net. Since then, Coach K has had the philosophy to cut down the nets when they can.

    Am I remembering this correctly?
    ~rthomas

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by rthomas View Post
    If I remember correctly there was a year when Duke won the ACC Tournament and decided not to cut down the nets citing "unfinished business". The team got beat early in the NCAA and never got to cut down any net. Since then, Coach K has had the philosophy to cut down the nets when they can.

    Am I remembering this correctly?
    I thought I remembered that happening in 1989 where they did not cut down the Regionals nets then lost to Seton Hall the next game. Robert Brickey got tackled out of bounds...bad times were had by all.

  14. #14

    nets

    Quote Originally Posted by rthomas View Post
    If I remember correctly there was a year when Duke won the ACC Tournament and decided not to cut down the nets citing "unfinished business". The team got beat early in the NCAA and never got to cut down any net. Since then, Coach K has had the philosophy to cut down the nets when they can.

    Am I remembering this correctly?
    No ... the not cutting the nets occurred after winning the East Regional ... not sure when exactly, but it was 1989 or 1990 -- back when we were being called the Buffalo Bills of college basketball for the ACC for always going to the Final Four and not winning it. It was a mistake and K realized it, stating that we need to celebrate every championship along the way.

    The team that refused to cuit down the nets after winning the ACC championship was UNC in 1994 -- then they went out and became the first UNC team not to reach the Sweet 16 in 14 years!

    UNC fans claim the tournament doesn't matter because Roy feels that way. He once bragged that none of his Final Four teams had won their conference tournament (a streak that was broken in 2008, although the 2009 national champs lost in the ACC Tourney). Under Roy-boy's watch, UNC has fallen behind Duke in the number of ACC championships ... so now it doesn't matter to them. It's the same UNC logic that's used when they lose a recruit -- we didn't want him anyway.

    Well, guess what boys and girls -- the tournament winner is THE ACC champion. The team that finishes first in the regular season is merely "the regular season champion". It's not as significant as an NCAA title or even a Final Four appearance, but it's a bigger deal than finishing first in the regular season.

    Most sports determine their champions in postseason. The Tampa Bay Devil Rays had the best record in the American League last year. Can they put up a banner and call themselves the American League champions? No, they may have finished with the best record over 162 games, but they lost a short playoff series to the Texas Rangers. The Phillies had the best record in the NL. Guess what, they lost a short series to the Giants and now the Giants are the NL champs.

    It's about championships. Enjoy each step along the way. Yeah, I want to win the ACC regulars season title. But I want to win the real title even more. Then I want to win the regional championship even more than that. Then I want to win the national championship to top it all.

    The next time you here a UNC fan say it doesn't matter, just smile because that's more evidence of how much Duke's dominance of the event is hurting them.

  15. #15
    It matters but its significance in terms of NCAA seeding has been muted in recent years. Remember even as late as 2004 you could see Maryland go from on the bubble to a 4-seed with an ACCT run. That seems almost quaint today.

    Being the ACC Champion has value, of course. But the difference between winning the ACCT and losing in the ACCT finals probably is minimal in terms of NCAAT seeding.

  16. #16
    In the big picture of life here on earth and eternaly none of it matters.

    BUT in the practical here and now it matters a lot!!

    * it would be a goal reached for the season
    * it makes a difference in the NCAAT seeding
    * I think the kids get a ring for it (not sure)
    * If UNC wins, you can bet it will matter, in fact it will be more important than anything that happened all year
    * it gives K one more title for his unbelievable legacy
    * it deprives Roy of a title for his legacy

    And last but not least I need a new T-shirt, so YES IT MATTERS!

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by rthomas View Post
    If I remember correctly there was a year when Duke won the ACC Tournament and decided not to cut down the nets citing "unfinished business". The team got beat early in the NCAA and never got to cut down any net. Since then, Coach K has had the philosophy to cut down the nets when they can.

    Am I remembering this correctly?
    It was the 1989 Regional title in which Duke declined to cut down the nets.

    No K-coached Duke team has ever won an ACC Tournament and then lost in the NCAAs prior to the Sweet Sixteen. The early outs--1984, 1985, 1993, 1996, 1997, 2007 and 2008--came following ACC tournaments in which Duke did not win. In fact, 1984 was the only one of those in which Duke won more than one ACCT game.

    Nine of K's 11 Final Fours came after ACC Tournaments in which Duke played three games. The exceptions are 1990 and 1994, when Duke lost in the semis. Three of Duke's four NCAA titles were preceded by an ACC Tournament championship.

    Not much support in that data set for the idea that playing three games in the ACCT is bad for a deep NCAAT run.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    In his pre game team talk with the crazies he emphasized the importance of winning championships.

    "You don't win one of those (pointing to Nat'l champ banners) without one of those (pointing to ACC banners)"

    yeah they're important
    1200. DDMF.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mount Kisco, NY
    As a Duke fan, I start every year hoping that the team can accomplish 4 goals:

    -Win the ACC regular season
    -Win the ACC tournament
    -Make the Final Four
    -Win the National Championship

    I always think the teams that can do at least one of those 4 have made their mark. So, while I agree in the unbalanced sched era it is less meaningful, it is still an important milestone that marks Duke teams.

    It goes without saying that the fact that, at the start of every nearly year, we can set our hopes on all four of those goals makes being a Duke fan sublime.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC

    Unhappy

    In addition to all of the good reasons already listed, as a fan I'd say it matters because Selection Sunday is a lot more fun to watch when Duke is on a roll. Its nice to have that moment to celebrate, take a deep breath, and then prepare mentally for the fact that every game could be our last.

    For the team, it's clear looking at our last two Championship teams that the ACC Tournament played a big role in the team's development. 2001 proved that our new lineup was not a fluke. Our squeaker over Maryland and our beatdown of UNC showed that our team was getting better. In 2010 we won every game ugly, and although it looked unimpressive at the time now its clear that it prepared us for the grind it out games we had against Purdue, Baylor, and of course Butler. We learned to make the winning plays that we didn't in College Park and we were a better team because of it.

    On the other side, the early exits in 07 and 08 were foreshadowed by poor showings in the ACC Tournament. And losing the late lead against Maryland in 04 is eerily similar to the UConn game

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