DeAndre Daniels recruitment

[Newton_14]

Honestly, yes. I am fine with moving on and accepting what we have, but to downplay what his potential would have been in a Duke uniform versus guys who have played much longer with much lower ceilings seems ridiculous. The only people who are relieved are bitter.

You can talk about "how many wings do we need?" all day long, but remember that we have a ton of guards (Seth will be here next year, Andre will be here next year, Rasheed will be here next year, Tyler will be there next year, Quinn will likely be there next year, the only one we are likely to lose is Austin) and you are talking about trying to pull these guys. Bigs are what we need, but I think K was looking at Deandre to try to grow into a Team USA Durant style player at the 4, so it would have given him a tool that he has used with great success.

But here is the thing, there is no way in the world to know if Daniels ceiling was higher than the guys on the current roster. I think some are too quick to toss our current players to the side and declare them as "No chance of improvement". That is unfair to those kids. Many people on this site stated all the way to the beginning of their Sr year that Lance Thomas and Brian Zoubek would never amount to anything and no way we would ever make a Final Four with those guys starting. Those people were dead wrong. Both guys improved, and both played key roles on a National Championship team.

I, for one, have not given up on Josh Hairston, Andre Dawkins, Mason Plumlee, Miles Plumlee, and Ryan Kelly. I believe all 5 can and will improve, some more than others. A lot of talent and potential there. To write them off is a mistake.

I hate that it appears we missed out on Daniels, and wished we could have landed him. I love his size and quickness. But I honestly have no idea if he would have beaten out any of the 5 guys above for PT. I will follow his career with interest since he likely will fall in the category of "Almost was a Blue Devil". I wish him well.

The point is, college kids can and do improve. Even as Seniors. The list of such cases at Duke is long.

We still have 4 good looking freshman coming in, one of which is ranked 1 or 2 in the entire class in most rankings. The other 3 have good potential as well and play the 3, 3/4, and 4/5 positions. The immediate future of Duke Basketball is bright, with or without Daniels. Would have loved to see him join the squad, but it just doesn't seem meant to be.

Edit: I somehow forgot Cook! Not on purpose! So add Cook to the list of impressive freshman class and a pretty darn good PG with great upside.

[Devilsfan]

Admissions can be a terrible obsticle. You would think this was an educational institution and not just a basketball factory. Well there is always Kentucky.

[Duke: A Dynasty]

Here is a little update from the same guy:




http://twitter.com/#!/SummerHoopScoo...08152959942656

Hmmm funny I posted this already several days before hand and it was removed. O well I hate we missed on DD cause as most people should know by now I was real high on this kid being the best in our class outside Rivers. I hope he goes to Kansas now.

[darjum]

I think some are too quick to toss our current players to the side and declare them as "No chance of improvement". That is unfair to those kids. Many people on this site stated all the way to the beginning of their Sr year that Lance Thomas and Brian Zoubek would never amount to anything and no way we would ever make a Final Four with those guys starting. Those people were dead wrong. Both guys improved, and both played key roles on a National Championship team.

I can see your viewpoint on this issue. I guess in the early entry era people can be impatient with player development. Coupled with Duke's recent success with recruiting, it can lead to a narrow view of player growth and a 4 year journey. There is a certain satisfaction you get from seeing Kyrie light it up from day one as a Fr, but there is also another sort of satisfaction from seeing Gerald Henderson grow from a supreme athlete as a Fr into a NBA caliber player by his Jr season.

I guess people who wish to recruit a player even if his position already has depth will argue that in order to bring out the best in players they need competition. I for one think players like Dawkins and Curry will rise to the occasion with all the incoming freshmen and cement their place in Duke's end of game rotations. Obviously as Duke fans witnessed with Paulus in his Senior season, if somebody else is better equipped and healthier, they get the nod.

For example, if Rodney Purvis wanted to come to Duke nobody would stop him, but the depth at that position for the foreseeable future is already well established. However, if Purvis proved best equipped to get the job done there is no doubt Coach K would insert him from the first game of the season, if he proved worthy. As long as players realize the depth at their position and are ready for a challenge, bring it on.

I'm sure we all have challenges and challengers in our own jobs and we realize that healthy competition brings out our own work ethic and makes us be better than we think we can be.

[Gthoma2a]

But here is the thing, there is no way in the world to know if Daniels ceiling was higher than the guys on the current roster. I think some are too quick to toss our current players to the side and declare them as "No chance of improvement". That is unfair to those kids. Many people on this site stated all the way to the beginning of their Sr year that Lance Thomas and Brian Zoubek would never amount to anything and no way we would ever make a Final Four with those guys starting. Those people were dead wrong. Both guys improved, and both played key roles on a National Championship team.

I, for one, have not given up on Josh Hairston, Andre Dawkins, Mason Plumlee, Miles Plumlee, and Ryan Kelly. I believe all 5 can and will improve, some more than others. A lot of talent and potential there. To write them off is a mistake.

I hate that it appears we missed out on Daniels, and wished we could have landed him. I love his size and quickness. But I honestly have no idea if he would have beaten out any of the 5 guys above for PT. I will follow his career with interest since he likely will fall in the category of "Almost was a Blue Devil". I wish him well.

The point is, college kids can and do improve. Even as Seniors. The list of such cases at Duke is long.

We still have 4 good looking freshman coming in, one of which is ranked 1 or 2 in the entire class in most rankings. The other 3 have good potential as well and play the 3, 3/4, and 4/5 positions. The immediate future of Duke Basketball is bright, with or without Daniels. Would have loved to see him join the squad, but it just doesn't seem meant to be.

Edit: I somehow forgot Cook! Not on purpose! So add Cook to the list of impressive freshman class and a pretty darn good PG with great upside.

I am not writing these guys off. I just think that a guy who is able to pick up this much in five years is going to be a beast if he keeps growing as a player. It is the Tim Duncan or Joachim Noah idea. If you have a guy who is growing by leaps and bounds, you want them badly. Those two went from being relatively inexperienced to the pros rather quickly. That is why that rate of improvement is what I am basing this off of. Our guys can and will improve, but not at the rate that this kid is growing (he has the physical tools and is picking up the rest quickly).

[Kedsy]

I am not writing these guys off. I just think that a guy who is able to pick up this much in five years is going to be a beast if he keeps growing as a player. It is the Tim Duncan or Joachim Noah idea. If you have a guy who is growing by leaps and bounds, you want them badly. Those two went from being relatively inexperienced to the pros rather quickly. That is why that rate of improvement is what I am basing this off of. Our guys can and will improve, but not at the rate that this kid is growing (he has the physical tools and is picking up the rest quickly).

Duncan stayed four years in college and Noah stayed three. That doesn't sound super-quick to me. I'm also not sure I buy the idea that starting competitive basketball at 12 or 13 (which is five years ago for Daniels, right?) is such a late start.

But if it is a late start, that doesn't automatically mean he has more upside than someone who started when they were 8 or 10. Kids mature at different rates. There are a lot more guys who start playing at age 12 or 13 and don't amount to much than there are Duncans and Noahs. You may be extrapolating beyond the point of reliable prediction.

I would have liked DeAndre Daniels to come to Duke, but I agree with those who think he would have been a luxury. From a half-full perspective, if we assume Austin and Mason will be gone after the 2011-12 season (along with Miles) then the loss of Daniels allows us the flexibility to pull in that "fab five" type of class that Rasheed Sulaimon has been talking about (Shabazz; Purvis; Parker or equivalent, and including Mr. Murphy). Which added to our current young core would have us in the top ten (probably top five) for the next several years. What more could we ask for?

[dcar1985]

I am not writing these guys off. I just think that a guy who is able to pick up this much in five years is going to be a beast if he keeps growing as a player. It is the Tim Duncan or Joachim Noah idea. If you have a guy who is growing by leaps and bounds, you want them badly. Those two went from being relatively inexperienced to the pros rather quickly. That is why that rate of improvement is what I am basing this off of. Our guys can and will improve, but not at the rate that this kid is growing (he has the physical tools and is picking up the rest quickly).

I know its over and done with but you sure are hyping Daniels alot...what are you basing this on? have you seen him play personally, or are you looking at the same few youtube videos as the rest of us...Because I honestly dont see the same things you seem to be seeing when you look at Daniels

[yancem]

Duncan stayed four years in college and Noah stayed three. That doesn't sound super-quick to me. I'm also not sure I buy the idea that starting competitive basketball at 12 or 13 (which is five years ago for Daniels, right?) is such a late start.

But if it is a late start, that doesn't automatically mean he has more upside than someone who started when they were 8 or 10. Kids mature at different rates. There are a lot more guys who start playing at age 12 or 13 and don't amount to much than there are Duncans and Noahs. You may be extrapolating beyond the point of reliable prediction.

I would have liked DeAndre Daniels to come to Duke, but I agree with those who think he would have been a luxury. From a half-full perspective, if we assume Austin and Mason will be gone after the 2011-12 season (along with Miles) then the loss of Daniels allows us the flexibility to pull in that "fab five" type of class that Rasheed Sulaimon has been talking about (Shabazz; Purvis; Parker or equivalent, and including Mr. Murphy). Which added to our current young core would have us in the top ten (probably top five) for the next several years. What more could we ask for?

Don't confuse when a player left for the nba for when they could have left for the nba. Both Duncan and Noah would have been lottery picks after their sophomore years and Duncan would probably have been the number 1 pick.

As for the late start, I would say that if you have 2 players that are the same age and are at about the same level of talent that the one who has played less basketball probably has more upside. There are other factors like drive/work ethic and athletic ability but experience is a big factor which is why college coaches love seniors but nba gm's shy away from them.

I know its over and done with but you sure are hyping Daniels alot...what are you basing this on? have you seen him play personally, or are you looking at the same few youtube videos as the rest of us...Because I honestly dont see the same things you seem to be seeing when you look at Daniels

I have read some very positive reviews about Daniels' game from some highly respected basketball people. There has been some "recruiting experts" that think Daniels very well might be a one and done type talent. They have noticed remarkable improvement in his play from last season to this one which supports the late bloomer Duncan type comparison.

I have no idea how good he will end up being (I'm certainly not an expert scout) the impression that I have gotten is that he will be a high impact freshman. That being said, I don't think that loosing him means that Duke can't be a great team next year. We certainly have a lot of talent but I think that there is a reason that K was pressing hard for him and that reason is that he is very good.

[dcar1985]

Don't confuse when a player left for the nba for when they could have left for the nba. Both Duncan and Noah would have been lottery picks after their sophomore years and Duncan would probably have been the number 1 pick.

As for the late start, I would say that if you have 2 players that are the same age and are at about the same level of talent that the one who has played less basketball probably has more upside. There are other factors like drive/work ethic and athletic ability but experience is a big factor which is why college coaches love seniors but nba gm's shy away from them.



I have read some very positive reviews about Daniels' game from some highly respected basketball people. There has been some "recruiting experts" that think Daniels very well might be a one and done type talent. They have noticed remarkable improvement in his play from last season to this one which supports the late bloomer Duncan type comparison.

I have no idea how good he will end up being (I'm certainly not an expert scout) the impression that I have gotten is that he will be a high impact freshman. That being said, I don't think that loosing him means that Duke can't be a great team next year. We certainly have a lot of talent but I think that there is a reason that K was pressing hard for him and that reason is that he is very good.

Who? I haven't heard the same hype, dont get me wrong I think he's a good player and has a lot of potential but not to the degree alot of people seem to be pumping it up to be especially on the board...I think K saw a good player who showed interest in the program so why wouldn't he go after him? I dont think Daniels makes or breaks Dukes team next year at all plus having that scholly available for 2012 is big.

[Gthoma2a]

I know its over and done with but you sure are hyping Daniels alot...what are you basing this on? have you seen him play personally, or are you looking at the same few youtube videos as the rest of us...Because I honestly dont see the same things you seem to be seeing when you look at Daniels

K's interest level, Kentucky still trying to get him, Kansas wanting him, Texas wanting him, his ranking, the report that he has played 5 years total (I believe he is 19 now) and has caught up enough to be top 10-20 in the nation, his long body with pretty solid athleticism (he could add some bulk and really be a good player at any level), and the bits and pieces that I have seen. Those schools don't recruit that many players who can't play. K also really seemed to really want him to still recruit him after hearing that Murphy was coming early. These things all point to him being able to play. This is not to mention that if he plays the 4, he would be a major change from our current men at the 4 (Ryan plays on the outside and doesn't drive, and Miles is primarily a second 5 since he rarely steps out for more than a screen). He just has versatility and a high ceiling.

[roywhite]

Our failure to land Daniels is probably the biggest miss for the program since Carrick Felix went elsewhere, or is it since Olek Czyz transferred?

Just making a point, but I don't see Daniels as being a huge factor. The scholarship he doesn't take may well go to a better prospect. The recruiting class of 2011 is just fine, and the recruiting class of 2012 is shaping up well so far.

[-bdbd]

Our failure to land Daniels is probably the biggest miss for the program since Carrick Felix went elsewhere, or is it since Olek Czyz transferred?

Just making a point, but I don't see Daniels as being a huge factor. The scholarship he doesn't take may well go to a better prospect. The recruiting class of 2011 is just fine, and the recruiting class of 2012 is shaping up well so far.

I agree that the extra scholarship available could be a huge silver lining here. I really wanted DD, mostly b/c he is a different style player than what we currently have (long, athletic, a "quick big", aggressive) and obviously quite talented. But we are high on the lists for some really big-time prospects in the 2012 class, and that extra scholly could really wind up going to great use. Paging 'Bazz, Mr. Parker, Purvis and some other bigs.

[Gthoma2a]

Perhaps part of my frustration with not having an extra rapidly developing prospect for next year is that I hate the 1 and 2 teams for next year, and it would be nice to have as many nice cards to throw when the time comes.

[dcar1985]

K's interest level, Kentucky still trying to get him, Kansas wanting him, Texas wanting him, his ranking, the report that he has played 5 years total (I believe he is 19 now) and has caught up enough to be top 10-20 in the nation, his long body with pretty solid athleticism (he could add some bulk and really be a good player at any level), and the bits and pieces that I have seen. Those schools don't recruit that many players who can't play. K also really seemed to really want him to still recruit him after hearing that Murphy was coming early. These things all point to him being able to play. This is not to mention that if he plays the 4, he would be a major change from our current men at the 4 (Ryan plays on the outside and doesn't drive, and Miles is primarily a second 5 since he rarely steps out for more than a screen). He just has versatility and a high ceiling.

Like I said he's a good player and one of the last top unsigned players in the country of course people are going to see if they can get him late in the game...he's ranked 10 by Rivals, Scout has him at 29 and he's not ranked by ESPN b/c of the fact that he's already graduated HS but they do have him graded out as a 95 which would put him at 40 at the most...Murphy's not ready to play yet another year would do him good, Gbinije is also a 5th year player and ranked higher everywhere accept Rivals.

[verga]

if he is and i have no idea wouldn't it be great to have a 6'8" athlete for one year? He wouldn't affect the 2012 scholly's (if he's 1 and done) and he could have certainly helped with the depth issue( if we have one). An extra body with skill can't hurt our rotation and if he did develop, who know's perhaps it would have changed the recruiting focus for the future. It looks like he's not coming, i don't know if it's because they (the staff) drug their feet doing the vetting process or if he (Daniels) changed his mind and didn't want to wait, so we move on and their are several 2012 guys who i like a lot, so if K likes it, i like it.

[Kedsy]

is he one and done?

I understand how people could predict someone like Kyrie or Austin being one and done before they ever stepped on campus. But how would anybody know at this point for someone like Daniels?

[Franzez]

I understand how people could predict someone like Kyrie or Austin being one and done before they ever stepped on campus. But how would anybody know at this point for someone like Daniels?

Basically in their demeanor and approach to recruiting.

DeAndre has spent these past 2 years trying to find the best situation for him in terms of his role, touches, and exposure for the sole purpose of getting to the NBA. Thats how you know what type of guy you're dealing with, which isnt a guy looking to "develop" for 3-4 years and them emerging when ready. I liked the option he'd provide as a 3-4 this upcoming season.

It seems DeAndre wants to get to the NBA, which is the goal for a lot of players. However the way hes gone about it makes it seem like hes looking for the quickest route to the NBA instead.

My gut feeling is he ends up at Kansas now. Self has been open to guys doing 1 & Dones recently, but it will blow up in his face in the end.

[roywhite]

Basically in their demeanor and approach to recruiting.

DeAndre has spent these past 2 years trying to find the best situation for him in terms of his role, touches, and exposure for the sole purpose of getting to the NBA. Thats how you know what type of guy you're dealing with, which isnt a guy looking to "develop" for 3-4 years and them emerging when ready.

Daniels seems to be reaching legend status with some posters, and is now increasing in lore as a huge fish that got away. I'll certainly be interested to see just how good he is next year.

Daniels did come to Duke for a visit. While I didn't see him, there are posters on TDD who say he really didn't fare well in pick-up games with returning Duke players. FWIW.

I wish young Mr. Daniels well, but time to move on?

[hudlow]

Good luck DeAndre.

Not many young men get a chance to wear the Blue Devil uniform. Fewer turn that chance down.

We'll see you tourney time...maybe.

[yancem]

Our failure to land Daniels is probably the biggest miss for the program since Carrick Felix went elsewhere, or is it since Olek Czyz transferred?

Just making a point, but I don't see Daniels as being a huge factor. The scholarship he doesn't take may well go to a better prospect. The recruiting class of 2011 is just fine, and the recruiting class of 2012 is shaping up well so far.

Well, except that Czyz was ranked in the 75-100 range and Felix (as far as I can tell) was not even ranked coming out of high school. Daniels on the other hand is ranked as high as 10 by Rivals and 29 by Scout so I think that the comparison is a little off. Daniels is clearly seen as a higher impact recruit than either of those two.

To be clear, I am not hugely disappointed that he won't be at Duke because I think that signing a big is much more important long term and scholarships could be tight next season. But I get a little tired of "he's not that good any way" attitude whenever a recruit ends up somewhere else. I even saw this when Barnes committed to unc. Some players can be really good and still end up at another school. It's possible that Daniels is one of those players.

Of course you are correct that many on this board go the opposite direction and blow sunshine up every recruits'.... Which side is correct with Daniels? Is he a complete stud or being over hyped simply because he is the last recruit standing. We will have to wait to see next season.