MBB: VT 64, Duke 60 Post-Game Thread

[ajgoodfella7]

No one should be surprised we lost this game. It was a must win for them and we haven't proven we can beat good teams on the road. Duke should be an underdog at UNC too, even though Vegas will probably incorrectly favor us.

I'm not really surprised, but the fact remains that Duke was in perfect position to close this game out and we just let it slip through our hands because of self-inflicted mistakes IMO. But I am still much more surprised that we lost than I would have been if we had won.

[Chris Randolph]

yeah, but pts per shot down a bit to 1.23 from 1.30, 1.29, and 1.29

Good stat. I think it is safe to say this is because we don't have a consistent 3rd scorer which forces Kyle to take some difficult shots at times. Last season he could get better looks because of the scoring capability of Scheyer and Smith. If Irving was healthy, this would not be an issue

Nobody complains about Jimmer Fredette going 8 of 23 or 6 of 17 and scores 20+

[weezie]

I am unable to really put a finger on this one. Just all at sixes and sevens.
We had them on the ropes...then gave them a hand back into the ring.

Very frustrating. Poor Seth. I know K will help him tough this one out but gee whiz

[loldevilz]

I have no problem with players not hitting shots like Kyle over the last while and the occasional bone-headed play, but I do have a problem with players NOT COMPETING. This is what happened tonight. We lost this game not because we were cold from 3, but because the bigs especially Kelly and for most of the game Mason were simply not trying hard enough.

For instance, Kelly had a rebound come directly to him. Instead of approaching and securing the rebound, he simply let the Hokie grab it away from him. It was the worst thing I've seen in quite some time. It was capped off by a tip jam right over Mason because he failed to block out and get position.

I think at the end Mason showed some desire, but it was too late.

[rotogod00]

Just looked at Singler's season numbers and the one thing that sticks out at me is he's going to foul line much less than the past 2 years. His FTA/FGA:

'08-'09: .37
'09-'10: .38
'10-'11: .28

Just not getting the freebies as often as in the past.

[pkw]

This was a disappointing game in a lot of ways, but if we would have hit a few of the open threes down the stretch that we typically make or hit a few free throws then we walk out of VT with a closely fought win.

I'm not going to hang my head today though because the last two games you can see the fire in Kyle again. This is a team with a lot of experience and we are lucky to have a few more games with these seniors. Imagine this team if Kyle or Nolan had decided to leave after last season.

Virginia Tech played a great game today but we've seen similar losses in the past that we've moved past (see Maryland last year). Let them enjoy their big win of the year and lets move on and support this team that has given us so much over the years.

[ajgoodfella7]

Good stat. I think it is safe to say this is because we don't have a consistent 3rd scorer which forces Kyle to take some difficult shots at times. Last season he could get better looks because of the scoring capability of Scheyer and Smith. If Irving was healthy, this would not be an issue

Nobody complains about Jimmer Fredette going 8 of 23 or 6 of 17 and scores 20+

I think tonight though he was taking shots that he didn't have to take. He was taking long, semi-contested shots early in the clock when I think better shots could have been available with a little work. Our half-court offense was virtually non-existent for the last 6 or 7 minutes. I'm am kind of in shock how off they were down the stretch tonight.

[Greg_Newton]

After beating Temple, Coach said that it was a good win against the kind of opponent we will face in the 2nd round of the tournament. Well if we face a team like VT in the
2nd round will we have the same result as tonight? I'm off to bed, as I've already said more negative things than I have all year. Go Duke!

Really? I don't think was a bad loss at all. VT would have beaten most teams tonight.

Honestly, that was just a great, vintage ACC game. I hate it when Duke loses, but that was a great effort by VT in a great environment tonight.

[-bdbd]

Ryan Kelly had a key defensive rebound right in his hands and let a Va. Tech guy come take it. More than missed shots that was aggrevating to see. You gotta want it a little more than that.

'was thinking the same thing. He'll certainly see that replay several times in the next few days from the coaches. I DO wish he were more assertive sometimes. Bad night for Ryan.

One other thing - I wish Miles Plumlee would stop trying to be cute with the lobs and putbacks. Missing two "gimmies" turned out to be the difference in the game tonight.

Miles had more than one not-so-smart play, missing a rebound/dunk in traffic when a tip-in wouls have been sufficient (This wasn't the first game where that happened either - trying to make the dramatic play. UGH!) And those lob passes. Eck! Just not his ideal style of play.

I'm not saying it's at all likely. But I'm saying they'd be one of the weakest one seeds in recent memory, and therefore it's more likely. If they're a one seed, I'd love to be a two seed in their bracket, let's say...

Not worried about the seeds. Right now we'll still be in the top-4 (and likely a #1 seed), given that two other top-5 teams lost today. So I highly doubt that we drop beyond #3 or #4 ranking. Can't really afford to drop another and expect a #1 seed though.

Virginia Tech did not win, Duke lost. We blew this game the last four minutes with poor shot selection.

Being Duke fans, we are always going to be Duke-centric in our observations. Give VPI some props -- in the last ten minutes they seemed to want it more. They were very assertive on the boards and their D certainly disrupted our offense. Their crowd, I believe, played a role in this one too. It sounded LOUD there, which appeared to affect our play.

I am disappointed with the loss. We had multiple chances to win it and let it slip away. Va Tech had much more riding on this game than we did and it showed. The home team got a boost from the crowd and that was enough to be the difference tonight.
Now we need to beat Clemson and UNC and do well in the ACC tourney. Tough, but doable.

Wouldn't want to be Clemson on Wed. night...
Heck, this COULD work out for the best if it gets us fired up heading into the Kerlina game too. Maybe get a roll going now (now that we got that out of our system)!

Kelly + Curry + Dawkins + Tyler + Miles = three points in second half (if my memory is correct). ...We really need someone to step up on a CONSISTENT basis. ...Andre had a couple of good games and we got all excited - then Kelly - then Seth - Tyler has had some good moments as has Miles. But so far, other than Mason, no one has stepped up consistently to help Kyle and Nolan. No one else has had anything close to a season where you feel confident in their game.

True dat. Can't wait for Kyrie to reappear as a consistent third go-to guy. Though I think this was an aberration for Seth at his dad's alma mater... 'was just too pumped and had a few bad breaks early.

I didn't see it this way. I thought we played the first 33 minutes like maestros. They were playing great, but could not shake us. We eventually got the lead, had a few chances to shake them, and then Kyle hit the big 3 to put us up 6 with ~6:45 left. That's when we fell apart. Had we kept that lead at 6 for another minute, we hand the ball to Nolan and go 1-4 and put that game on ice. Instead, Kyle kept thinking he was going to hit that next 3, we start commiting turnovers, and things changed quickly.

This one hurts, but I am happy for V Tech. Despite their typical thuggery (not tonight) they have been a tortured NCAA deprived team and this should put them in. Seeing Greenberg and his daughters should show everyone how much this game meant to them...good for him.

Yes, in spades. We didn't close it out when we had the chance, and once VPI got on a roll, well the crowd really helped the momentum. This helps VPI (and the ACC) much more than it hurts Duke. Not too worried about this one. We didn't play terrible. And we'll bounce back strong versus Clemson. Count on it. Next play!!

[Chris Randolph]

I think tonight though he was taking shots that he didn't have to take. He was taking long, semi-contested shots early in the clock when I think better shots could have been available with a little work. Our half-court offense was virtually non-existent for the last 6 or 7 minutes. I'm am kind of in shock how off they were down the stretch tonight.

I touched on it in my first post about the game, but we kept running the same play that wasn't working. Mason sets a screen for nolan, nolan drives the middle, the defender collapses leaving kyle space to shoot a 3. If Kyle has a fairly open look, Coack K and anyone honestly would want him to take it, which he was doing but not making. Therefore I was questioning the actual design of the play (maybe put Dawkins where Singler was) or why we didn't do much of anything else

[Andre Buckner Fan]

I'm going to be a Pollyanna and look for some silver linings on a game we choked away.

a) K can use this to our advantage.
b) More experience in that kind of atmosphere can't hurt us in tourney time.
c) The Freshmen and Sophmores need more losses to show them to stop taking plays off. (The mental mistakes by our seniors are far more distressing.)
d) All's well that ends well. If we beat UNC, this loss doesn't hurt us too much. A one seed isn't everything. And we still might be in line for one (but I'd rather have a two seed closer to home than the last one seed that ships out west or somewhere).
e) Kyle's slump is very similar to Scheyer's last year. The board wanted him to sit or at the very least stop taking shots... but Jon came around in the ACC Tourney. Kyle could too.

[Dr. Tina]

Bob, this is about the third time you said this and you are of course correct!

I was looking at this game as a test of our mental toughness and togetherness as a team and I think we failed. We had very few assists. We did not trust each other down the stretch. We were not patient when they went zone. We gave up offensive rebounds by not focusing. We had poor shot selection and forced shots down the stretch.

I completely agree! I thought we were playing a lot of one-on-one basketball instead of playing as a FIST. We weren't sharing the ball well and our ball movement was pretty stagnant. The fact we only had about 6 assists tells you that.

Nolan and Kyle either wanted to take the shots themselves or give the ball to each other, and neither of them made good decisions for the last 8 minutes or so...traveling, an offensive foul, jacking up 3's (that were NOT falling!) with plenty of time on the shot clock repeatedly, etc. etc. They weren't getting other guys involved at all, and I didn't feel they showed very good poise or leadership given all the experience they have in these situations.

Kyle frustrated me tonight because he seemed to totally forget what made him effective in his last game. Before the Temple game, he was routinely putting up jumpshots (many from 3) that were not falling. He changed his tactics completely in the Temple game and was way more effective. So, why he decided to go back to his pre-Temple game ways is beyond me. I know K always gives Kyle and Nolan the green light from 3, but when they're not falling...DO SOMETHING ELSE! Also, I think at least 10 of his points were from the line tonight, and they were a result of him driving to the basket.

Seth was a trainwreck, and I think it was a horrible decision to have him in at the end of the game. He had been on the bench for so long. Dre or Tyler would have been a better substitution.

Speaking of Dre and Tyler, I was pleased with them. Dre was 2-4 and Tyler was 1-1 from 3. They probably should have been the only ones taking 3's with the way Nolan and Kyle were missing. Dre still needs to move around more, and I wish Tyler had been a bit more aggressive instead of passing off to Nolan most of the time.

Mason played really hard and should have gotten the ball A LOT more! He made 2 great hook shots, and I think he could have gotten more going if they'd find a way to get him the ball. I'm pleased with his performance.

However, our Big Guys - Mas, Miles, and Ryan - were not going up strong for rebounds and that really hurt us on the offensive end. Sometimes they were out of position because it was a long rebound (a result of a missed 3!), but other times, they were just batting it around like a volleyball or getting it ripped from them.

Ryan needs to start making those 3's or just give up the ball.

Basically, I think we beat ourselves in this game. I was resigned that we'd lose the FSU game because we'd been behind the whole time. I didn't witness the St. John's game, but I largely look at it as akin to the GTown game from last year. This game reminds me of how I felt with the MD loss last year. I was really mad because I knew we were right there and had many opportunities to win that game. That's how I feel right now! Only...this time...we had THE LEAD...and blew it.

Very disappointing game tonight...

[sagegrouse]

I've read only half the posts above, so pardon me if everything below has already been said.

The first thirty minutes were like so many Duke games this year -- trailing early but coming on strong. Good tough game that went awry in the last several minutes. Not enough poise on offense -- how many times did we have the chance to put these guys away? Our defense was excellent, but we weren't tough enough on the boards the last few minutes. While they got some O rebounds off of bricked shots, I thought the VT guys were tougher inside than we were at the end.

Mason seemed to be unstoppable against VT. Wasn't he part of the game plan? Why did he get only five shots? Hey, Miles, to quote the Wizard of Westwood, "Be quick but don't hurry." Those two misses on a jam and a layup meant four points.

Answers to questions from the pre-game thread (your guesses may be a lot better than mine):

1.Who guards Nolan? Erick Green.

2. Who guards Kyle? Seemed like Bell and Allen drew the heaviest duty.

3. Assuming Delaney gets guarded by a committee, who guards Jeff Allen? Well, Nolan handled Delaney perfectly well as a committee of one and still had a strong offensive game. Allen was guarded by committee, esp. Ryan on the wing and Mason (?) inside.

4. Run at Delaney to get him in foul trouble and tire him out? Nah, you can't run at him because he doesn't play much defense.

5. Mason's continued mastery of the boards? Not so much, but a good offensive game for Mason.

6. Game Day a plus or a minus for Tech? Your guess is as good as mine.

Next play!

sagegrouse

[Dr. Tina]

Just looked at Singler's season numbers and the one thing that sticks out at me is he's going to foul line much less than the past 2 years. His FTA/FGA:

'08-'09: .37
'09-'10: .38
'10-'11: .28

Just not getting the freebies as often as in the past.

Kyle has also been settling for 3's and fadeaway jump shots A LOT more this year than taking it inside like he has in the past.

[Billy Dat]

I know it sounds weird, but I didn't see this as a "live by the 3 die by the 3 game". I have thought that many times in the past, but that was usually because our offense couldn't create anything but a contested 3. Tonight, down the stretch, I actually thought we had great spacing and potential to get either better 3s, or other high percentage shots, but Kyle must have been feeling it.

My only worry about a game like this for Kyle is that he clearly wanted to be the man down the stretch and it came out all wrong. He was playing great up until then. For those who are criticizing him for not getting to the line, he went 9-10 from the line tonight, he just chose to jack 3s down the stretch. I think hitting the 3 to put us up 6 with 11 to go got him in the mindset that he was going to carry us to the end. Whatever...he couldn't buy one. Here's how we came down the stretch on offense from when Kyle hit that 3:

-Kyle miss 3
-Kyle miss 3
-Nolan miss jumper
-Kyle miss 3
-Kyle makes 2 FTs
-Kyle turnover (walk)
-Nolan runner
-Nolan charge
-Nolan miss inside
-Nolan miss 3
-Miles miss dunk
-Kyle miss jumper
-Nolan miss jumper
-Kyle turnover
-Kyle makes lay-up
-Andre miss 3
-Kyle miss lay-up and tip in
-Mason steal and dunk
-Kyle miss 3
-Nolan miss front end of 1-1
-Mason goes 1 for 2 on FTs
-Curry turnover
-BALLGAME

Rough last 10 minutes. We went down with Kyle and Nolan, you have to like our odds to win in that scenario...usually.

[elvis14]

Tough game tonight and a big loss for Duke. We will lose our #1 ranking, our #1 seed and we've given UNC@CH a chance to win the ACC regular season title. Bummer x 3.

I hate to say it but if Kyle can't hit a jump shot of any kind consistently, we are not an elite team. Lots of people on this thread have pointed to poor shot selection as the culprit. Outside of the last 30 minutes the problem wasn't poor selection it was that Kyle missed a bunch of wide open 3 point shots. Everyone is pointing to the 28 he had last game where he was being guarded by a 6'3" player and scored a bunch of layups. Against bigger teams we need him to hit jump shots either midrange (like all the ones he missed in the first half) or 3's (like all the ones he missed in the second half). Until Kyle can hit a jumper, we aren't a contender and I hate that.

I love Ryan Kelly but he needs to either start hitting some of those open 3's or start taking the ball to the hole. I would have liked to see us work get Andre some more shots tonight when VT started playing so much zone. Our offense just didn't look good tonight.

I'd discuss the last 30 seconds but it's kinda obvious that it was all bad.

Someone want to explain to me how Nolan only get's on FT attempt in a VERY physical game?

[rotogod00]

I know it sounds weird, but I didn't see this as a "live by the 3 die by the 3 game". I have thought that many times in the past, but that was usually because our offense couldn't create anything but a contested 3. Tonight, down the stretch, I actually thought we had great spacing and potential to get either better 3s, or other high percentage shots, but Kyle must have been feeling it.

My only worry about a game like this for Kyle is that he clearly wanted to be the man down the stretch and it came out all wrong. He was playing great up until then. For those who are criticizing him for not getting to the line, he went 9-10 from the line tonight, he just chose to jack 3s down the stretch. I think hitting the 3 to put us up 6 with 11 to go got him in the mindset that he was going to carry us to the end. Whatever...he couldn't buy one. Here's how we came down the stretch on offense from when Kyle hit that 3:

-Kyle miss 3
-Kyle miss 3
-Nolan miss jumper
-Kyle miss 3
-Kyle makes 2 FTs
-Kyle turnover (walk)
-Nolan runner
-Nolan charge
-Nolan miss inside
-Nolan miss 3
-Miles miss dunk
-Kyle miss jumper
-Nolan miss jumper
-Kyle turnover
-Kyle makes lay-up
-Andre miss 3
-Kyle miss lay-up and tip in
-Mason steal and dunk
-Kyle miss 3
-Nolan miss front end of 1-1
-Mason goes 1 for 2 on FTs
-Curry turnover
-BALLGAME

Rough last 10 minutes. We went down with Kyle and Nolan, you have to like our odds to win in that scenario...usually.

not a criticism, just the facts. and my bad, he's up to 29% after tonite's 10/19 ratio

[lotusland]

Hard fought game that was well played by both teams until the wheels kinda came off for Duke at the end. Conference road game in a very hostile environment so a close loss isn't the end of the world. Most of Kyle's 3's were open looks that we need him to take and make but tonight they just weren't falling. The last one was a bad shot taken too quickly but if it had fallen, of course, there would be no complaints. On the positive side, Mason is becoming very solid and his confidence is showing. If Kyle gets his 3 ball back Duke should be ready for the tournaments with or without Kyrie.

[elvis14]

For those who are criticizing him for not getting to the line, he went 9-10 from the line tonight, he just chose to jack 3s down the stretch.

We are not criticizing Kyle for not getting to the line. He's getting hammered and it's not being called. We are criticizing the way the game is being called in regards to Kyle,

[jipops]

Let's see, a crushing loss somewhere in mid-late February. Don't we see this movie pretty much every year? It's just how it goes.

So the synopsis seems to be poor shot selection and game management did us in on this one. Kind of sounds like a team that is operating without a point guard doesn't it?

I still think this a very good team, but for quite a while we have been a team with glaring weaknesses that are going to bite us from time to time as well, especially on the road. Think about the fact that we have no pg and very little offensive threat in the post, yet we are still challenging for an ACC title. Sure I know we have 2 of the best players in the conference but with those glaring holes there a lot of teams that would have tripped up more frequently, kind of like the one last year a few miles down the road. The talking heads will say "hey, Duke didn't have a pg last year either", well... we did have a guy who produced an insane assist/TO ratio and managed the game like a master. We don't have that in our personnel this year.

Again, I still think we have a very good team that has some potential to make a good run. Our perimeter guys are in a position where they have to work hard to get their shots.