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  1. #1

    Too much whine and cheese? Or not enough?

    The students haven't been turning out, so the student ticket allotment has been cut:

    http://www.dailytarheel.com/index.ph...s#comment12297

  2. #2
    It hasn't been as noticeable, but they're doing it in Cameron, too. The end of the student section next to the band, past the end of press row is being sold off every game, ACC or otherwise, because student attendance has been abysmal, even for ACC games. It just hasn't been as well publicized.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Silicon Valley
    Quote Originally Posted by PumpkinFunk View Post
    It hasn't been as noticeable, but they're doing it in Cameron, too. The end of the student section next to the band, past the end of press row is being sold off every game, ACC or otherwise, because student attendance has been abysmal, even for ACC games. It just hasn't been as well publicized.
    Glad you brought it up. This ENRAGES me! A good fourth or third of the student section, by area, is now reserved for non-students. Students, meanwhile, are forced to cram in to their limited area. It just makes no sense. It's a good thing they put a good team out on the floor each night, because the unabashed monetizing of the Cameron experience (the video board, including the "Fidelity Financial Starting Line-Up" and the "Time Warner First-Half Review") is just sickening.

    OK! Had to get that out of my system.

    - undergrad

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by anon View Post
    Glad you brought it up. This ENRAGES me! A good fourth or third of the student section, by area, is now reserved for non-students. Students, meanwhile, are forced to cram in to their limited area. It just makes no sense. It's a good thing they put a good team out on the floor each night, because the unabashed monetizing of the Cameron experience (the video board, including the "Fidelity Financial Starting Line-Up" and the "Time Warner First-Half Review") is just sickening.

    OK! Had to get that out of my system.

    - undergrad
    I agree completely. The video board combined with them deciding to constantly blare music through the PA system has really destroyed a lot of the pregame atmosphere that was around my freshmen/sophomore years. The fact is, though, they cram students in there because students weren't showing up to even ACC games, minus Carolina, which is garbage on our end. We haven't done well this year in terms of attendance or atmosphere (I know many people on this board would disagree with me, but you can tell that compared to last year, things are much, much worse, minus the Carolina game and a few others this year)

  5. #5
    It just ain't that exciting when you keep winning and all. Haven't lost for at home for a couple of years is really taking a toll on the poor students. You have to go to the game and just expect to win. Where is the excitement. We need more up and downs like the heels did.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by PumpkinFunk View Post
    I agree completely. The video board combined with them deciding to constantly blare music through the PA system has really destroyed a lot of the pregame atmosphere that was around my freshmen/sophomore years. The fact is, though, they cram students in there because students weren't showing up to even ACC games, minus Carolina, which is garbage on our end. We haven't done well this year in terms of attendance or atmosphere (I know many people on this board would disagree with me, but you can tell that compared to last year, things are much, much worse, minus the Carolina game and a few others this year)
    I HATE music over the PA. How the heck am I supposed to heckle the other team when they drown me out for songs about Dougies? I feel like people don't really understand the role of a Cameron Crazie these days(i.e. you don't show up and stand there blank faced during pre-game, scream "number 1, baby!!" when the camera dude comes on you slash dance to the music, and then not even do anything other than for the first possession of the game!).

    And the UNC game. The first half was AWFUL from us. I legit couldn't tell the difference between that game and any other ACC game. I had to scream at the people behind me during halftime to be louder.

    The coaching staff does so much for us to make us feel like we are part of the team. We can't be on the court shooting shots, but we can be loud, pick our guys up, and make the other guys lose focus for just a split second so Nolan can drive to the basket or Tyler can get the steal. EVERYDAY. We don't expect our guys to half-*** it on the court, so why should we??

    (another sad thing is I know people who have been front row to every game, but don't even know the hand motions to songs like Devil with a Blue Dress or the words to the Alma mater!)

    And attendance. I dunno. Too many people worried about carrying 4.0's rather than helping Duke win basketball games...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Asheville

    Reason

    While talking to 2 volunteers working in the museum area prior to the UNC game that are involved with the games, this subject came up. One of the volunteers is also a member of the admissions committee. She stated that the attendance has been off for a while now. Both volunteers were in agreement that the reason was because the make-up of the student body has become more increasingly diverse. As a result, many of the new students the past few years are from backgrounds that are unfamiliar with college basketball.

    I decided to delve a little more into this aspect of the problem of decreasing undergrad attendance by questioning some students I met at the bonfire that appeared to me to be underclassmen with Asian ancestry. Of the group of 4 students that I talked to, only one knew a little about basketball prior to arriving at Duke. All four knew nothing about Duke basketball, in particular, before arriving at Duke. None of the 4 attended the UNC game because they did not want to stand in line for any time period, as they said it would take away from time they wanted to use for academic purposes. They, therefore, rarely attended any games, if at all.

    I gave these students a brief Duke basketball history going back to the Vic Bubas era, emphasizing the advantages of becoming a member of "the Duke bball club", and how it would enhance their Duke experience. I have no idea if my little history lesson will have any effect on them regarding Duke bball, but they were in the Main Quad during the bonfire, and seemed like very nice kids that are not any different from any of us alums here on the Board-------other than having a cultural background that didn't include enough of an interest in college basketball.

    I hope that someone in the Administration involved with the bball program can somehow reach out to these "uneducated" students and show them how beneficial the complete Duke "experience" can be, and the positive effect that it can have on the rest of their lives.

    Go Duke!

    ricks

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    North Carolina
    Funny, I was talking to someone from the class of 2010 about this the other day. He was saying the same thing about admissions going away from accepting "basketball fans" the past few years.

    Sounds like Duke needs more students like me who write in their application essays that they want to be tent 1 four straight years! (given my grades this semester I'm starting to think that's why I'm here ahaha)

  9. #9

    1980-1984

    Duke was:

    62-57 overall
    20-36 Reg season ACC
    39-22 Home
    17-25 Away
    6-10 Neutral

    Show up for the games. My peers did, and weren't expecting a win every night.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Silicon Valley
    Quote Originally Posted by PumpkinFunk View Post
    I agree completely. The video board combined with them deciding to constantly blare music through the PA system has really destroyed a lot of the pregame atmosphere that was around my freshmen/sophomore years. The fact is, though, they cram students in there because students weren't showing up to even ACC games, minus Carolina, which is garbage on our end. We haven't done well this year in terms of attendance or atmosphere (I know many people on this board would disagree with me, but you can tell that compared to last year, things are much, much worse, minus the Carolina game and a few others this year)
    It's kind of a chicken-and-the-egg thing though, don't you think? They take away seats in Cameron, so it's harder to get into games, so fewer people try coming next time, etc. I won't speculate as to which came first, but can we please just stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by dukebsbll14 View Post
    (another sad thing is I know people who have been front row to every game, but don't even know the hand motions to songs like Devil with a Blue Dress or the words to the Alma mater!)
    Sorry... but who cares, as long as you root for Duke?

    Quote Originally Posted by dukebsbll14 View Post
    Too many people worried about carrying 4.0's rather than helping Duke win basketball games...
    No reason you can't do both

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Silicon Valley
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke84 View Post
    Duke was:

    62-57 overall
    20-36 Reg season ACC
    39-22 Home
    17-25 Away
    6-10 Neutral

    Show up for the games. My peers did, and weren't expecting a win every night.
    Surely they were giving away free T-shirts each night then!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by dukebsbll14 View Post
    And the UNC game. The first half was AWFUL from us. I legit couldn't tell the difference between that game and any other ACC game. I had to scream at the people behind me during halftime to be louder.
    I'm glad someone on here agrees with me. I remember being totally underwhelmed by the Crazies throughout the game. I saw people in tents 1 and 2 (lots of friends of mine were in tent 2, so I can point them out) trying to start cheers, and, per usual, the Crazies weren't picking them up in the pregame. During the game, it was pretty dead until the 2nd half. It was pretty shameful, and honestly, every game this year has been underwhelming from the Crazies.

    (another sad thing is I know people who have been front row to every game, but don't even know the hand motions to songs like Devil with a Blue Dress or the words to the Alma mater!)
    No kidding. Then again, most people at Duke don't know the words to the alma mater. I made an effort to learn it (and the fight song words), despite the fact that I never am able to sing it.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Meeting with Marie Laveau
    Quote Originally Posted by ricks68 View Post
    While talking to 2 volunteers working in the museum area prior to the UNC game that are involved with the games, this subject came up. One of the volunteers is also a member of the admissions committee. She stated that the attendance has been off for a while now. Both volunteers were in agreement that the reason was because the make-up of the student body has become more increasingly diverse. As a result, many of the new students the past few years are from backgrounds that are unfamiliar with college basketball.

    I decided to delve a little more into this aspect of the problem of decreasing undergrad attendance by questioning some students I met at the bonfire that appeared to me to be underclassmen with Asian ancestry. Of the group of 4 students that I talked to, only one knew a little about basketball prior to arriving at Duke. All four knew nothing about Duke basketball, in particular, before arriving at Duke. None of the 4 attended the UNC game because they did not want to stand in line for any time period, as they said it would take away from time they wanted to use for academic purposes. They, therefore, rarely attended any games, if at all.

    I gave these students a brief Duke basketball history going back to the Vic Bubas era, emphasizing the advantages of becoming a member of "the Duke bball club", and how it would enhance their Duke experience. I have no idea if my little history lesson will have any effect on them regarding Duke bball, but they were in the Main Quad during the bonfire, and seemed like very nice kids that are not any different from any of us alums here on the Board-------other than having a cultural background that didn't include enough of an interest in college basketball.

    I hope that someone in the Administration involved with the bball program can somehow reach out to these "uneducated" students and show them how beneficial the complete Duke "experience" can be, and the positive effect that it can have on the rest of their lives.

    Go Duke!

    ricks
    As you know, there was a time when the undergraduates occupied almost all of the downstairs bleachers. During the Bubas era, we students often didn't fill all the seats, so AD Eddie Cameron authorized selling tickets for $1 each to let other folks fill in the space. (I remember being incensed about this development since we students had paid a fee that covered entry to all athletic events.) Eddie's goal was to fill the stadium and increase support of the program as it developed into a national power.

    As I read over the comments regarding current student attendance at basketball games, I'm struck by the similarity to the comments made about low student attendance at our football games.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by anon View Post
    Glad you brought it up. This ENRAGES me! A good fourth or third of the student section, by area, is now reserved for non-students. Students, meanwhile, are forced to cram in to their limited area. It just makes no sense. It's a good thing they put a good team out on the floor each night, because the unabashed monetizing of the Cameron experience (the video board, including the "Fidelity Financial Starting Line-Up" and the "Time Warner First-Half Review") is just sickening.

    OK! Had to get that out of my system.

    - undergrad
    Obviously, you don't understand what's going on-- the seats at the ends are being sold to non-students CLOSE TO GAME START TIME, when it is more than apparent that no students are going to show up and fill those-- and Duke feels like it would be idiotic to leave unfilled seats in some of the closest spots to the floor, when there are all kinds of people dancing around outside, hoping to get a ticket to the game - and willing to pay for it-- while students who could attend for free (WITH NO WAITING) choose not to.

    Go to a game, and ask the line monitor at the front by the student entrance how hard it is to get into a game-- he/she will tell you that they've had exactly one game this year (UNC) that students really filled their allotment of spots, plus the Countdown to Craziness (which isn't even a real game). There is no such thing as "having to wait in line to get into a game"-- you, as a student, could have attended any game (except maybe the UNC game) by simply showing up anytime right before game start (or even after it started!), and walking in...

    This whole charade is a myth, which hides the hard fact that students (taken as a whole) just aren't as interested in attending games as they once were... so it's not much of a surprise that students don't know (or maybe even care) about learning the cheers, songs, traditions, or even cheering-- the student body has changed, and diehards don't know it or else don't want to admit it.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke84 View Post
    Duke was:

    62-57 overall
    20-36 Reg season ACC
    39-22 Home
    17-25 Away
    6-10 Neutral

    Show up for the games. My peers did, and weren't expecting a win every night.
    Actually, students often failed to fill the lower levels of Cameron in the dark days of the early Krzyzewski era (e.g.- years 2 and 3)... I can remember walking into the game which probably marks the nadir of the Krzyzewski administration (the home blow-out loss to Wagner College in 1982-83) mid-way into the first half, and the place was like a mausoleum... there was nobody in the lower level-- of course, Duke didn't have to be embarrassed about that being shown on national television-- nobody was interested in showing Duke on national TV then.

    You do remember that there was no tenting, and no waiting on-line to get into games in those days, right?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudge View Post
    Obviously, you don't understand what's going on-- the seats at the ends are being sold to non-students CLOSE TO GAME START TIME, when it is more than apparent that no students are going to show up and fill those-- and Duke feels like it would be idiotic to leave unfilled seats in some of the closest spots to the floor, when there are all kinds of people dancing around outside, hoping to get a ticket to the game - and willing to pay for it-- while students who could attend for free (WITH NO WAITING) choose not to.
    During the past two months, the Iron Dukes have sent out e-mails 3-4 days before a number of games offering tickets for Section 17 in the corner of the student section. This happened for the MD, BC, Ga Tech and Temple games, and I believe there were a few others during the early part of the season. Before at least one of those games (BC), the student section was not full and people in Section 17 were allowed to move over to center court.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Durham, NC

    Perceptions?

    See the pocket reference, section 11e. The Cameron Crazies have been on the decline for decades! I'm pretty sure nobody even shows up anymore.

    The key problem is perception (to steal a line from Sideny Lowe). We only remember Cameron at its peak, at those ultimate nostalgia-inducing moments of thunderous bedlam. Then, we show up for a wednesday night non-conference matchup in the height of midterm season, and we're all sorely disappointed that the crazies don't live up to our ridiculous memories and expectations.

    We don't remember the long stretches of silence and pathetic chant attempts from the years when UNC came into Cameron and smacked our faces off. We only remember the 120 decibels from exhilarating comebacks like this year's. I'm guilty of it, too. I always catch myself thinking "freshman year was so much more electric," even though I know it probably isn't true.

    That said, I have noticed that there are some non-students in the student section this year. But a 1/4 of the student section? Not even close. The only major drop-off I've been able to objectively notice is the absence of player-name-chants in the pregame. Sad, but not world-altering.

    Lets not forget how spoiled we are. Cameron is, has been, and will continue to be the best venue in sports.
    Last edited by Jderf; 02-26-2011 at 12:56 PM.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by DST Fan View Post
    During the past two months, the Iron Dukes have sent out e-mails 3-4 days before a number of games offering tickets for Section 17 in the corner of the student section. This happened for the MD, BC, Ga Tech and Temple games, and I believe there were a few others during the early part of the season. Before at least one of those games (BC), the student section was not full and people in Section 17 were allowed to move over to center court.
    Yup, I was at that game-- and yep, I was one of those who got to move over and sit right at the center court line, two rows behind the PA announcer... and the line monitors made it clear (well before game time) that there were not going to be enough students to come close to filling their allotment for that game... any Duke student who wanted to could have come out 5 seconds before tipoff, walked in, and sat down within a few feet of the playing floor, and watched the highly-ranked Blue Devils in well-contested tilt against league foe which has battled Duke very well since they entered the ACC (and a kindred high-level academic institution, I might add-- every bit as good academically as UNC, or better)... kind of sad really, if you are berserk, psychotic Duke basketball fan...

  19. #19

    decline in Cameron

    Honestly, I think the decline in the Crazies (according to some on this board...I was a student last decade and thought we were great, albeit with nothing to compare it to) has a great deal to do with the increased competitiveness of college, graduate/professional schools, and jobs in general. When I was in high school, good extracurriculars in addition to a great GPA were required to get admitted to a school like Duke. Now, it seems like anything short of greatness in several areas isn't good enough to get you in. The admission rates for professional schools have similarly decreased, even from when I was admitted to medical school in 2005-06 to now (I think the admission rate for all med school applicants was 48% back then...it's 43.6 now). I was an interviewer for Duke School of Medicine 2 years ago, and let me tell you...I would not have gotten in now. It seems like every applicant has founded a charity, discovered some protein, or done international mission work. This leaves a heck of a lot less time for waiting in line for hours just to get a bracelet and then for hours again to attend the games.

    Camping out and attending Duke basketball games was an essential part of my Duke experience, and I wouldn't have had it any other way. But I can't fault today's students for choosing to study or otherwise boost their application- yet still be able to watch the game on TV- rather than spending hours to attend the games in person. The educational world is different now.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA

    Really? Are they serious?

    Quote Originally Posted by ricks68 View Post
    While talking to 2 volunteers working in the museum area prior to the UNC game that are involved with the games, this subject came up. One of the volunteers is also a member of the admissions committee. She stated that the attendance has been off for a while now. Both volunteers were in agreement that the reason was because the make-up of the student body has become more increasingly diverse. As a result, many of the new students the past few years are from backgrounds that are unfamiliar with college basketball.
    First, I don't think 2 volunteers working in the museum area, even if one is a member of the admissions committee are qualified experts into why attendance has been off. But to blame it on a diverse student background without citing any facts to back it up seems a bit silly to use as an argument.
    How big is the student population at Duke? About 12K - undergrad and grad? And what percentage of those students are from diverse backgrounds with no knowledge of college basketball? For the sake of argument, lets say it is a whopping 75%. That means 25% of the 12K students, or 4000, are knowledgeable about college basketball. Now, how many seats in Cameron are allocated to students? According to wikipedia, about 1,100. So that means of the students knowledgeable about college basketball only 1/4 of them are needed to fill up the student seats at Cameron.
    I don't have actual the statistics, but I challenge someone to come up with them to back up the argument about diversity. I seriously doubt that a diverse student body is keeping students from filling up Cameron.

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