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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    Cincinnati

    The one less traveled by

    Suppose there is a college basketball player who is good enough to be one of the top three chosen in the lottery, if not the first. He reads http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mor...e50/index.html and sees all the endorsement earnings of the superstar athletes but concludes that while he’ll be a solid player in the NBA he probably will not become a superstar there. However, he thinks that he might be able to achieve superstar status (and therefore hefty endorsement contracts) a different way.

    He decides that if he stays in college he will be able to rise to the superstar level as a big fish in a little pond: everyone else good enough to go pro has gone pro, putting him head and shoulders above the remaining college players. By staying in college and putting on dazzling performances for a team that is a national champion contender he figures that he will get much more national attention than he would have gotten in three years in the NBA, especially if he leads his team to one or more national championships. His presence on the team also will help recruiting, increasing the championship possibilities as well as the attention focused on the team. He will try to maximize his national media exposure by speaking and doing work on behalf of popular causes.

    Also suppose that he is the kind of person whom companies want as a representative: articulate, squeaky clean personal life, likable, engaging. How likely is it that this approach would generate additional endorsement income over the course of his life at least equal to the three years of player salary that he gave up to stay in college? How important should it be to his decision that this form of income is more stable in that it tends to continue even if he stops playing because of injury?

    Should a player with significant talent think of this as a legitimate alternative route – building up star power in college which probably would not have been available to him had he started from scratch in the NBA (especially if (a) he might sit idle a large part of his first year in the NBA because of a labor dispute, and (b) he wanted a college degree for other reasons)?

  2. #2
    If this is about Kyrie -- it seems like it is? -- he has as good a chance as any to be a star in the NBA.

    But to address the rest of it, what a player does in college doesn't affect their national profile most of the time after they leave, except for very special cases -- such as Laettner perpetually making commercials alluding to his shot against Kentucky. Jay Williams mostly has his college career to hang his hat on, and his congenial nature and college greatness almost certainly has propelled his broadcasting career, but that probably still would have been true had he left a year (or two) early.

    Other than that, players who are figureheads on the college level but aren't necessarily good enough to be stars in the NBA don't really achieve a high national profile. This has been proven many times over.

    Battier and Hansbrough come to mind as players who were college superstars and were basically forgotten about. Battier, in particular, has had a very solid NBA career, and true fans of the game know about his value. (Especially if they read the Michael Lewis piece on him). But he's generally not thought about by the casual fan. Redick is sort of in the same boat.
    Last edited by Starter; 02-20-2011 at 01:06 PM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Starter View Post
    Battier and Hansbrough come to mind as players who were college superstars and were basically forgotten about.
    I knew Hansbrough would be mentioned in a thread about traveling

  4. #4
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    Nov 2007
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    Delaware
    Quote Originally Posted by dball View Post
    I knew Hansbrough would be mentioned in a thread about traveling
    Good call, but is it still appropriate when the title is about "less traveled"

  5. #5

    Seriously...

    Quote Originally Posted by Starter View Post
    If this is about Kyrie -- it seems like it is? -- he has as good a chance as any to be a star in the NBA.
    If the original post is referring to Kyrie, it's way off base.

  6. #6
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    Cincinnati
    Quote Originally Posted by slower View Post
    If the original post is referring to Kyrie, it's way off base.
    Is it way off base because history shows that every player with Kyrie's skills has achieved a top level endorsement contract, and it is therefore a done deal? Is it off base because there is no way that Kyrie could enhance his image in college in a way that would significantly increase his endorsement potential after college?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Durham
    Wait, I thought this was about Harrison Barnes? I was fooled by the big fish in a small pond argument. Kyrie will be a big fish in any pond or ocean he ever plays in. And because of that I wish him the best whenever he decides he wants to play in the NBA.

  8. #8
    If college athletes were allowed to cash those endorsement checks without losing their eligibility, this thread would make a lot more sense. Alas, the NCAA is not exactly known for making sense.

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Cincinnati
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Berg View Post
    If college athletes were allowed to cash those endorsement checks without losing their eligibility, this thread would make a lot more sense. Alas, the NCAA is not exactly known for making sense.
    You misunderstand. The point is not that anyone will get rich while in college. The question is whether, by staying in college, an exceptional athlete can significantly increase his marketability so that upon graduation and afterward he will be able to negotiate a much more lucrative endorsement contract than if he gone earlier into the NBA.

  10. #10
    I have always said that having an education is never a bad thing. My youngest son recently informed me he is going to go back to school for his 3rd degree.

    If this thread is about a player who plays happens to play for Duke University, how could staying at DUKE & learning for one of the greatest basketball geniuses of all time. Studying under him would probably only elevate your game. An added bonus is a top notch education from an premier college.

    If this is in any way about Kyrie, i think he is coming back. Those award banquets can be pretty inspiring & the video Mrs. K does for the seniors are motivating.

    Okay so I can only hope. The Daytona 500 is boring & it is too early for the game.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by swood1000 View Post
    You misunderstand. The point is not that anyone will get rich while in college. The question is whether, by staying in college, an exceptional athlete can significantly increase his marketability so that upon graduation and afterward he will be able to negotiate a much more lucrative endorsement contract than if he gone earlier into the NBA.
    No, I understand, I just disagree. The way things stand, a player of Kyrie's caliber can make more money during his N years in the NBA than he would by spending C years "pre-marketing" himself in college plus (N-C) years in the NBA. Frankly, I don't think the numbers are very close.

    All I'm saying is, if circumstances were different and college players were allowed to earn income above-board, the equation would change in favor of your argument. We don't know exactly what the economics of a semi-professional NCAA would look like, since it's never been tried (Reggie Bush et al aside), but it would at least give the "Kyrie makes more money by staying an extra year" hypothesis a fighting chance.

  12. #12
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    Mar 2010
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    Cincinnati
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Berg View Post
    No, I understand, I just disagree. The way things stand, a player of Kyrie's caliber can make more money during his N years in the NBA than he would by spending C years "pre-marketing" himself in college plus (N-C) years in the NBA. Frankly, I don't think the numbers are very close.
    Well, John Wall landed a $25M contract after only one year in college. http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...llreebok060910

    Of course, there are many factors that go into something like this, and he might even have qualified as a "done deal." But why should we assume that, unlike golfers, basketball players are not eligible for the big time endorsement contracts? And wouldn't the right person be able to cultivate his image quite successfully playing for a high-profile championship caliber college team?

  13. #13

    Simple Answer...

    Quote Originally Posted by swood1000 View Post
    But why should we assume that, unlike golfers, basketball players are not eligible for the big time endorsement contracts?
    Compare the price of basketball shoes to a set of golf clubs and apparel and accessories. Also, note the relative disposable income of civilian golfers compared to people who buy basketball shoes.

  14. #14
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    Mar 2010
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    Cincinnati
    Quote Originally Posted by slower View Post
    Compare the price of basketball shoes to a set of golf clubs and apparel and accessories. Also, note the relative disposable income of civilian golfers compared to people who buy basketball shoes.
    Why do we limit it to basketball shoes? Joe Dimaggio sells Mr. Coffee. George Foreman sells electric grills. The principal impediment seems to be whether the person buying a particular product can identify with a given athlete. Some athletes may only be appealing to those buying basketball shoes. Not all athletes, though.

  15. #15
    any player projected in the top 3 is going to get a lucrative endorsement deal. Coming back is not going to enhance his first endorsement deals, and only his play in the league is going to enhance his second.

    To play devils advocate - what about a player who played 10 games in college, had an injury that really made him take stock of his career, and has seen his national profile sky rocket because of people contemplating "what could have been" if he had been healthy. He has a chance to capitalize on all that positive energy, or he can run the risk of coming back and potentially not performing up to expected levels, and seeing his national profile slip off...

    wouldn't that player be well served to leave early and strike while the iron is hot, knowing that everyone and their father predict him to be a star at the next level?
    My Quick Smells Like French Toast.

  16. #16
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    Mar 2010
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    Cincinnati
    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    any player projected in the top 3 is going to get a lucrative endorsement deal. Coming back is not going to enhance his first endorsement deals, and only his play in the league is going to enhance his second.
    I'm not sure that everyone would agree that a lucrative endorsement contract is a "done deal" for the top three, nor whether the contract could be made more lucrative by further exposure in college.

    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    To play devils advocate - what about a player who played 10 games in college, had an injury that really made him take stock of his career, and has seen his national profile sky rocket because of people contemplating "what could have been" if he had been healthy. He has a chance to capitalize on all that positive energy, or he can run the risk of coming back and potentially not performing up to expected levels, and seeing his national profile slip off...

    wouldn't that player be well served to leave early and strike while the iron is hot, knowing that everyone and their father predict him to be a star at the next level?
    It will always be the case that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. The question is how many there are in the bush and how likely it is that they can be gotten.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Inman, SC & Fort Myers, FL
    Quote Originally Posted by swood1000 View Post

    It will always be the case that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. The question is how many there are in the bush and how likely it is that they can be gotten.
    And, of course you have to factor in how bird doo all over your hand matters!

  18. #18
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    Mar 2010
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    Cincinnati
    Quote Originally Posted by mgtr View Post
    And, of course you have to factor in how bird doo all over your hand matters!
    I thought that was a given.

  19. #19
    Louis Williams

    Sebastian Telfair

    Shaun Livinston

    Brandon Jennings

    All high school wunderkind guards.

    If any one of these players had gone to a basketball powerhouse with lots of national media exposure, playing in Final Fours and contending for national championships, a much bigger part of the basketball-viewing world would pay attention and take an interest in following the success or failure of that player. The popularity resulting from being a high-profile college star can be an advantage in a number of ways, not simply signing endorsement deals.

    Look at Jay Williams. He had a much too short NBA career, but his recognition and association with Duke basketball and the University I believe helped him greatly in pursuing other career paths, such as professional sports agency and broadcasting.

    Of course, I am not arguing that the college experience is for everyone. Not everyone has intellectual curiosity and an interest in the wider world and meeting other intelligent people from a variety of backgrounds, such that the college experience would be valuable in and of itself. People with no such interests may find college such a drag that even though the name recognition and popularity from college play might be advantageous, they would nevertheless be happier just skipping it altogether or minimizing it.

    But once you build that connection with a school like Duke over a multiple-year period, you will be a part of that university community and basketball family for the rest of your career, indeed life.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    Cincinnati
    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    any player projected in the top 3 is going to get a lucrative endorsement deal. Coming back is not going to enhance his first endorsement deals, and only his play in the league is going to enhance his second.
    Do you think that Grant Hill would have gotten all this attention and all those endorsement deals anyway if he had gone pro after his freshman year? I really wish there were a listing somewhere of the endorsement deals for all the NBA players, not just the ones at the top.

    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    To play devils advocate - what about a player who played 10 games in college, had an injury that really made him take stock of his career, and has seen his national profile sky rocket because of people contemplating "what could have been" if he had been healthy. He has a chance to capitalize on all that positive energy, or he can run the risk of coming back and potentially not performing up to expected levels, and seeing his national profile slip off...

    wouldn't that player be well served to leave early and strike while the iron is hot, knowing that everyone and their father predict him to be a star at the next level?
    Of course, if Kyrie decides that he is currently over-hyped, and that his actual skill level would not support a number one pick, then the most money lies in "not quite recovering" enough this year to play and then immediately going pro.

    But let me turn the question around. Suppose Kyrie does actually have the skill level to be a number one pick (which seems to agree with some of Coach K's comments about him). And suppose he could leave now and receive the rookie contract amounts but without significant endorsement deals and no promise of ever having any major deals. If he stays around for three years there is a chance that he will be permanently injured and lose any chance of going pro. But suppose he becomes convinced that, because of his skill level, his personality, and the national attention focused on his team, and because of lessons learned from Grant Hill, if he stays around for three more years and is not injured he would be able to immediately land endorsement contracts of $10 million per year. What should he do?

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