UNC Football Scandal - The Beat Goes On

[SCMatt33]

I for one am not disappointed with the allegations. Some may have been hoping for LOIC but it was unlikely unless someone close to the situation both testified to Butch's direct knowledge of the allegations and had some kind of hard evidence to back it up.

You do see failure to monitor and failure to cooperate in the report though. That isn't small potatoes.

From reading the notice of allegations, I would describe my guess (I have no reason other than my research into the NCAA rulebook and a cursory glance to some past infractions on the LSDBi to know anything) as to the likely outcome as "everything but." It looks like the NCAA is going to give them the harshest possible penalty short of a postseason ban. From the info requested, and some of the allegations, I'm guessing that there will be scholarship reductions, a long probation period, vacated wins, and financial penalties. Rules 32.2.2.3 and 32.2.2.4 were referenced in the allegations. Those rules outline how wins can be vacated and financial penalties assessed for ineligible participation. As for the scholarships, the NCAA requested a lot of information from the university about its scholarship habit in regards to football so I would assume that they are gearing up to dock them of some of them.

[Acymetric]

From reading the notice of allegations, I would describe my guess (I have no reason other than my research into the NCAA rulebook and a cursory glance to some past infractions on the LSDBi to know anything) as to the likely outcome as "everything but." It looks like the NCAA is going to give them the harshest possible penalty short of a postseason ban. From the info requested, and some of the allegations, I'm guessing that there will be scholarship reductions, a long probation period, vacated wins, and financial penalties. Rules 32.2.2.3 and 32.2.2.4 were referenced in the allegations. Those rules outline how wins can be vacated and financial penalties assessed for ineligible participation. As for the scholarships, the NCAA requested a lot of information from the university about its scholarship habit in regards to football so I would assume that they are gearing up to dock them of some of them.

They also requested information about all TV deals associated with unc...including deals negotiated independently as well as deals through the ACC contracts. I would expect a postseason ban to come before a TV ban, so if there is any kind of ban on television appearances I expect there will be a postseason ban as well. 1-3 years postseason ban and scholarship reductions for a couple years beyond would be my best case scenario (with potential for limiting TV appearances).

[SCMatt33]

They also requested information about all TV deals associated with unc...including deals negotiated independently as well as deals through the ACC contracts. I would expect a postseason ban to come before a TV ban, so if there is any kind of ban on television appearances I expect there will be a postseason ban as well. 1-3 years postseason ban and scholarship reductions for a couple years beyond would be my best case scenario (with potential for limiting TV appearances).

That actually made me more suspicious of the scholarship stuff than thinking that there will be a TV ban. The NCAA hasn't given out a TV ban for the past couple of decades because in today's environment where TV is ubiquitous, a TV ban punishes the opponents as much as the team involved. This makes me think that the stuff at the end where scholarship habits and TV obligations are requested are more standard procedure rather than indicative of potential penalties.

The parts where the vacation rules are mentioned, though, are separate from this, so I am still confident that UNC will be vacating some wins and bowl appearances. The rest will likely be a crapshoot, though I stand by my original guess based on rudimentary research into past infractions cases.

It seems that the NCAA is more inclined to give out post season bans (at least in the last decade or so), when schools blatantly slap them in the face, by low balling self imposed penalties, running comically weak internal investigations, and lying to the NCAA during interviews. So far as I know, UNC hasn't done these things. They cooperated when the NCAA came knocking, ran a thorough investigation with the NCAA, and hasn't been caught in any lies during their interviews. Something could come out between now and October 28th that would change that, but it isn't the case yet.

[Acymetric]

That actually made me more suspicious of the scholarship stuff than thinking that there will be a TV ban. The NCAA hasn't given out a TV ban for the past couple of decades because in today's environment where TV is ubiquitous, a TV ban punishes the opponents as much as the team involved. This makes me think that the stuff at the end where scholarship habits and TV obligations are requested are more standard procedure rather than indicative of potential penalties.

The parts where the vacation rules are mentioned, though, are separate from this, so I am still confident that UNC will be vacating some wins and bowl appearances. The rest will likely be a crapshoot, though I stand by my original guess based on rudimentary research into past infractions cases.

It seems that the NCAA is more inclined to give out post season bans (at least in the last decade or so), when schools blatantly slap them in the face, by low balling self imposed penalties, running comically weak internal investigations, and lying to the NCAA during interviews. So far as I know, UNC hasn't done these things. They cooperated when the NCAA came knocking, ran a thorough investigation with the NCAA, and hasn't been caught in any lies during their interviews. Something could come out between now and October 28th that would change that, but it isn't the case yet.

Failure to cooperate was specifically mentioned in the LOA, actually. According to Joe Ovies (twitter) the internet seems to be buzzing with the idea that the allegations listed are worse than what USC received in theirs. Whether that is really the case the fact that this is the perception is bad news [for carolina].

Oh. And this tidbit from Star News in Wilmington

UNC asked for a summary disposition (a mutual agreement on punishment without a hearing), but was denied ...

It isn't that unc low-balled on self-imposed penalties and the NCAA refused...the NCAA has such little faith in unc to hold itself accountable that it won't even have the conversation before the official hearing.

People still thinking slap on the wrist?

[blueduke59]

It seems that the NCAA is more inclined to give out post season bans (at least in the last decade or so), when schools blatantly slap them in the face, by low balling self imposed penalties, running comically weak internal investigations, and lying to the NCAA during interviews. So far as I know, UNC hasn't done these things

UNC had to be sued for what? Cooperating? Did Wiley consent to be interviewed? Players lied to the NCAA. If that's not yanking the NCAA's chain then nothing is

[roywhite]

I see the allegations letter from the NCAA totals 42 pages, clearly a lot to digest.

I wonder if tutor/nanny Jennifer Wiley will now be asked to prepare a Cliff Notes Summary for the football staff to read?

[Newton_14]

Failure to cooperate was specifically mentioned in the LOA, actually. According to Joe Ovies (twitter) the internet seems to be buzzing with the idea that the allegations listed are worse than what USC received in theirs. Whether that is really the case the fact that this is the perception is bad news [for carolina].

Oh. And this tidbit from Star News in Wilmington



It isn't that unc low-balled on self-imposed penalties and the NCAA refused...the NCAA has such little faith in unc to hold itself accountable that it won't even have the conversation before the official hearing.

People still thinking slap on the wrist?

Ok Acy, maybe I was wrong and they get hammered. I do know the Failure to Monitor was not expected. Greg Barnes of IC was on local talk radio earlier this month and specifically said that it appeared UNC would not get hit with FTM and felt the actions they took in not letting the players compete last year would appease the NCAA. He stated UNC was confident the penalties would be light and would not include a post season ban.

I felt UNC should have penalized themselves last year by not accepting a Bowl Bid. I felt at the time, that was a big mistake on their part, but then everything recently coming out seemed to suggest holding out players was the only "self-imposed" penalty needed.

I am still not 100% convinced they will get hit hard (worse than USC, post-season ban), but you definitely have me reconsidering my slap on the wrist expectation.

[Acymetric]

Ok Acy, maybe I was wrong and they get hammered. I do know the Failure to Monitor was not expected. Greg Barnes of IC was on local talk radio earlier this month and specifically said that it appeared UNC would not get hit with FTM and felt the actions they took in not letting the players compete last year would appease the NCAA. He stated UNC was confident the penalties would be light and would not include a post season ban.

I felt UNC should have penalized themselves last year by not accepting a Bowl Bid. I felt at the time, that was a big mistake on their part, but then everything recently coming out seemed to suggest holding out players was the only "self-imposed" penalty needed.

I am still not 100% convinced they will get hit hard (worse than USC, post-season ban), but you definitely have me reconsidering my slap on the wrist expectation.

If you follow TDD at all (I hang out there for the football board, never visit the basketball section), they consider Greg Barnes a total shill for unc that is either willfully ignorant and pandering to the fanbase or a mouthpiece for what the school wants to get out to the public.

[CameronBornAndBred]

People still thinking slap on the wrist?

All in all I find the letter to be incredibly weak, due to one simple omission. Butch Davis is not held accountable for anything. His players, his coaches, his tutor..but he is not implicated. If he actually did not know anything, he should be fired just for being that out of touch with his program!

[billy]

My favorite accusation:

Untitled.png

Thinking of having a bumper sticker made...

[Acymetric]

All in all I find the letter to be incredibly weak, due to one simple omission. Butch Davis is not held accountable for anything. His players, his coaches, his tutor..but he is not implicated. If he actually did not know anything, he should be fired just for being that out of touch with his program!

True, but firing Butch for being an idiot isn't the NCAA's responsibility, I suppose. If they really never were able to find something to tie directly to him I'm shocked, but I mean the guy learned from some of the best at Miami

How they justify retaining a guy that let all this happen even if he wasn't behind it (or can't be linked to it with hard evidence at any rate) will be fun to watch.

[Acymetric]

My favorite accusation:

Untitled.png

Thinking of having a bumper sticker made...

Bumper sticker? Hell, I was thinking of getting a tatoo. Would the forehead be too tacky? Maybe a giant one across the back so it would be nice and visible when I'm at the pool...

[moonpie23]

My favorite accusation:

Untitled.png

Thinking of having a bumper sticker made...

i will buy that

[SCMatt33]

Failure to cooperate was specifically mentioned in the LOA, actually. According to Joe Ovies (twitter) the internet seems to be buzzing with the idea that the allegations listed are worse than what USC received in theirs. Whether that is really the case the fact that this is the perception is bad news [for carolina].

Oh. And this tidbit from Star News in Wilmington



It isn't that unc low-balled on self-imposed penalties and the NCAA refused...the NCAA has such little faith in unc to hold itself accountable that it won't even have the conversation before the official hearing.

People still thinking slap on the wrist?

I didn't see where the university was accused of not cooperating. I saw where Wiley was accused of it, but it's easy to miss things out of 42 pages. Do you know what page it is on?

As for the Star News bit, I don't consider a media outlet to be official, but assuming it is true, I would imagine that it's standard to have the hearing when the breadth of the accusations is so large. I would imagine that the way around it only exists for simple cases with few penalties. I wouldn't assume that it means that they don't trust UNC as a whole.

[Newton_14]

If you follow TDD at all (I hang out there for the football board, never visit the basketball section), they consider Greg Barnes a total shill for unc that is either willfully ignorant and pandering to the fanbase or a mouthpiece for what the school wants to get out to the public.

I do not follow TDD but I am well aware of Greg Barnes and the homerism. One of the things I detest about WRAL Sports, and local talk radio here is they treat him like a regular "unbiased" media member. He is on talk radio all the time here as is one of the other UNC "media" guys, cough, cough. I believe his name is Adam Lucas? (I should know it for sure, but it is late and my brain is on fumes)

Anyway, during basketball season, the Mike & Mark morning show on 620 has one of them on the day after each UNC game. For State however, they speak to Chris Corchiani. For us, it is Coach Collins.

In my opinion, given who they select for UNC, they should have Mark Watson on for Duke, and one of the StateFanNation or Pack Pride guys for NC State. It just makes no sense.

[Acymetric]

I didn't see where the university was accused of not cooperating. I saw where Wiley was accused of it, but it's easy to miss things out of 42 pages. Do you know what page it is on?

As for the Star News bit, I don't consider a media outlet to be official, but assuming it is true, I would imagine that it's standard to have the hearing when the breadth of the accusations is so large. I would imagine that the way around it only exists for simple cases with few penalties. I wouldn't assume that it means that they don't trust UNC as a whole.

You know, I think you may be right. I have no desire to read 42 pages about this so I've been getting information second hand, and by paraphrasing someone else's paraphrase of the portion on Wiley I ended up saying something that wasn't actually true (well, it may be true but it isn't in the letter ). Thanks for calling me on that. (seriously).

[roywhite]

Butch Davis likely to keep his Carolina job despite allegations

It's a piece by Caulton Tudor who is not the brightest bulb, but pretty well plugged into the Carolina scene.

Barf alert for Butch's comment:

"I feel terrible that these allegations occurred under my watch," the coach said in a statement released by the school. "I especially regret that the university has had to endure this scrutiny because of the football program. The responsibility for correcting any problems that put us in this position is mine, and I take that responsibility very seriously.

[Acymetric]

Butch Davis likely to keep his Carolina job despite allegations

It's a piece by Caulton Tudor who is not the brightest bulb, but pretty well plugged into the Carolina scene.

Barf alert for Butch's comment:

Man I haven't read the N&O since I left for college 5 years ago, I'd practically forgotten about Caulton. One of my least favorite sportswriters ever given a combination of his biases and lack of apparrent critical thinking. Not that I think he's wrong, I actually hope he's right. Butch will be under the microscope here on out, and he's alienated a lot of the media. Let him stay. How many dark horses for the championship will he put together when he doesn't have an associate head coach funneling benefits to players.

Of course, if he loses to State one more time that might be enough to fire him with cause

[CameronBornAndBred]

Butch Davis likely to keep his Carolina job despite allegations

It's a piece by Caulton Tudor who is not the brightest bulb, but pretty well plugged into the Carolina scene.

Barf alert for Butch's comment:

"I feel terrible that these allegations occurred under my watch," the coach said in a statement released by the school. "I especially regret that the university has had to endure this scrutiny because of the football program. The responsibility for correcting any problems that put us in this position is mine, and I take that responsibility very seriously.

My guess is that is a totally genuine comment. He probably does feel terrible that the allegations occurred under his watch; I'm not so sure he cares much about the trangressions themselves.

[Philawolf]

Front Page Of Sports Illustrated could change some fates...