UNC Football Scandal - The Beat Goes On

[davekay1971]

This is the part I find most disturbing. "The Carolina Way," no matter what else anyone wants to say, involved a sense of academic integrity (at least in my mind). UNC is a proud and fine institution. It does not appear to me that that the university is particularly proactive in finding out what happened here and handing out stern punishment. And the fact that much of the fanbase doesn't really see this as much of a problem is disconcerting to me.

Maybe I've been given UNC more credit than it deserves up to this point.

I tend to agree with you on the first paragraph. UNC maintained a high quality of academic integrity in building a remarkably good athletic department. The only sport where they have routinely struggled over the last couple of decades is football. Unfortunately, chasing the football $$$ and glory appears to have become more important than maintaining their own high standards of academic integrity. It's a bad scandal, no matter what the UNC fans, administration, and journalists would have you believe. The head coach hires a guy with a known reputation of bending/breaking/ignoring the rules in recruiting to rapidly upgrade the talent. The head coach also hires a tutor who ends up writing papers for the athletes. Then the coach playes the "I didn't know!" card and the administration rallies around him (and the enthusiasm...and $$$...he's brought from the fanbase). Baddour and Davis threw the individual players under the bus while claiming personal innocence in the hope of keeping the system that allowed these problems to occur, but also helped to bring in NFL talent, in place.

[oldnavy]

I tend to agree with you on the first paragraph. UNC maintained a high quality of academic integrity in building a remarkably good athletic department. The only sport where they have routinely struggled over the last couple of decades is football. Unfortunately, chasing the football $$$ and glory appears to have become more important than maintaining their own high standards of academic integrity. It's a bad scandal, no matter what the UNC fans, administration, and journalists would have you believe. The head coach hires a guy with a known reputation of bending/breaking/ignoring the rules in recruiting to rapidly upgrade the talent. The head coach also hires a tutor who ends up writing papers for the athletes. Then the coach playes the "I didn't know!" card and the administration rallies around him (and the enthusiasm...and $$$...he's brought from the fanbase). Baddour and Davis threw the individual players under the bus while claiming personal innocence in the hope of keeping the system that allowed these problems to occur, but also helped to bring in NFL talent, in place.

I agree. And again, the "I didn't know" excuse is just a way to rationalize the behavior of the head coach and athletic leadership.

Simply put they (UNC fandom) think Butch Davis gives them the best chance to be a contender on the national football scene and therefore they are willing to believe or at least accept that he did not know.
The problem is that the "I didn't know" excuse is either a lie or it is an admission of incompetence. Either way, if Davis worked for me he would be fired. He is either lying or he is a fool because only a fool would hire a person with Blake's reputation and expect that he would walk the straight and narrow all by himself. For the record I do not think Davis is a fool.

I still say give it a few years something else worse than this will turn up and the whole house of cards will come down. UNC has allowed this behavior to go unchecked and now it will fester and declare itself at a later time.

[roywhite]

I agree. And again, the "I didn't know" excuse is just a way to rationalize the behavior of the head coach and athletic leadership.

Simply put they (UNC fandom) think Butch Davis gives them the best chance to be a contender on the national football scene and therefore they are willing to believe or at least accept that he did not know.
The problem is that the "I didn't know" excuse is either a lie or it is an admission of incompetence. Either way, if Davis worked for me he would be fired. He is either lying or he is a fool because only a fool would hire a person with Blake's reputation and expect that he would walk the straight and narrow all by himself. For the record I do not think Davis is a fool.

I still say give it a few years something else worse than this will turn up and the whole house of cards will come down. UNC has allowed this behavior to go unchecked and now it will fester and declare itself at a later time.

This quote came from last year, but Steve Spurrier was not surprised when troubles arose and John Blake was connected. Spurrier on UNC's Blake

Spurrier stepped into the way-back machine, channeled the Ol’ Ball Coach, and took a subtle hatchet to Blake’s reputation around the coaching community as only he can. Or used to be able to.

“When you’ve been in coaching as long as I have, we know the reputation of almost all the coaches that have been around a long time,” Spurrier said Tuesday. “We all have a reputation, especially guys who’ve coached 20 years or so. It’s hard to hide whatever your reputation is.”

Contrast the way that problems with agents were handled at South Carolina vs North Carolina.
Spurrier had one player involved, Weslye Saunders, and he kicked him off the team within a week of the news coming out.
UNC had what, 16 players, involved, and the wheels of justice are turning slowly.

[sagegrouse]

I agree. And again, the "I didn't know" excuse is just a way to rationalize the behavior of the head coach and athletic leadership.

Simply put they (UNC fandom) think Butch Davis gives them the best chance to be a contender on the national football scene and therefore they are willing to believe or at least accept that he did not know.
The problem is that the "I didn't know" excuse is either a lie or it is an admission of incompetence. Either way, if Davis worked for me he would be fired. He is either lying or he is a fool because only a fool would hire a person with Blake's reputation and expect that he would walk the straight and narrow all by himself. For the record I do not think Davis is a fool.

I still say give it a few years something else worse than this will turn up and the whole house of cards will come down. UNC has allowed this behavior to go unchecked and now it will fester and declare itself at a later time.

I have a different take on the UNC Administration handling of the football mess and the NCAA investigation. UNC may believe it is in real trouble and is saving its own actions until it is time to bargain with the NCAA. In other words, UNC doesn't want to negotiate against itself through a "preemptive surrender" (also known as "The Mouse that Roared" approach). It wants to see what charges are proven and then offer appropriate actions. It may be that Butch Davis is a "dead man walking."

sagegrouse

[OldPhiKap]

(also known as "The Mouse that Roared" approach.

Someone's gonna drop the Q-Bomb on them?

[oldnavy]

I have a different take on the UNC Administration handling of the football mess and the NCAA investigation. UNC may believe it is in real trouble and is saving its own actions until it is time to bargain with the NCAA. In other words, UNC doesn't want to negotiate against itself through a "preemptive surrender" (also known as "The Mouse that Roared" approach). It wants to see what charges are proven and then offer appropriate actions. It may be that Butch Davis is a "dead man walking."

sagegrouse

That is a possibility, but that also would imply that they will keep Davis if they can get away with it. I think they have lost the opportunity to take the high road on this one.

Also, if you are willing to give up Butch, I am not sure that waiting will help. Isn't the NCAA all about self discipline? I mean if you wait until you have to give him up is it really self discipline? Granted I do not know much about NCAA investigations since Duke has had little to no involvement with the NCAA investigations.

[moonpie23]

Isn't the NCAA all about self discipline?

no....the ncaa is about chaotic disorder....look at the cam newton situation...if auburn had been on the bottom of the conference with 8 losses, cam would have been gone...

[OldPhiKap]

I think that the NCAA's light handling of Auburn had more to do with the fact that, if they banned Auburn last year, the national championship game may have been between two non-BCS conference teams.

The NCAA is about Money. They will hammer a big school (The OSU, USC) when they can afford to do it. But it is a cost-benefit analysis, weighed in dollars.

[Reilly]

... But it is a cost-benefit analysis, weighed in dollars.

My guess is that the UNC administration's handling is exactly the same.

What's the corporate form of the UNC booster organization? Any way its records are 'public' and subject to open records laws? I'm guessing not.

If big money donors stepped up and said "enough's enough, we want Butch gone" then he'd be gone given all that has transpired, right?

If big money is quiet/ambivalent about Butch, but the administrators had backbone and cared about doing things the right way, then Butch would be gone, right?

Looks to me the money folks want Butch around, and the administrators have no backbone or interest in being squeaky clean.

[cspan37421]

The NCAA is about Money. They will hammer a big school (The OSU, USC) when they can afford to do it. But it is a cost-benefit analysis, weighed in dollars.

I agree with you, and I'll conjecture that your observation is why the NCAA has such little respect. To the degree they have any principles on which they stand, they sell them out regularly when big $ is involved. So they're considered to have just as much hypocrisy as the other principals involved in these scandals.

Wake me up when they voluntarily take one on the chin financially for one of their claimed principles about student-athletes.

[OldPhiKap]

Wake me up when they voluntarily take one on the chin financially for one of their claimed principles about student-athletes.

You better change your name to "RipVanWinkle37421"

[CameronBornAndBred]

So did anyone over on the hill have trouble sleeping last night?

[ArkieDukie]

Baddour and Davis threw the individual players under the bus while claiming personal innocence in the hope of keeping the system that allowed these problems to occur, but also helped to bring in NFL talent, in place.

Is throwing players under the bus the new Carolina Way? That was Roy's MO during the disastrous 2009-2010 way. Of course, this is a problem in society on the whole IMO: it's always someone else's fault. JMO.

I, too, have lost a lot of respect for UNC in this whole debacle. I used to think that they valued integrity in their athletic program. Now, I'm not so sure.

I've definitely lost respect for the NCAA and their blatant double standards regarding punishment (or lack thereof) for rules violations. I'm still trying to figure out how Cam Newton was allowed to play last season and how the infamous Ohio State players (Terrelle Pryor et al.) were allowed to play in the Sugar Bowl. $$$$ talks. One wonders what the punishment would've been if any of these players had been at a less high profile institution.

[alteran]

Thx. Sorry to hear that. Wasn't aware. Of course doesn't change the evaluation of his anti-Duke theatrics on SC over the years. But I do wish him well in this fight. Nobody ever deserves that kind of illness.

Ditto. Good luck with his fight against cancer, but I don't think calling him out for his BS about Duke is out of line.

[roywhite]

UNC has received a Notice of Allegations from the NCAA.

announced via twitter on UNC website

Should be interesting.

[Newton_14]

UNC has received a Notice of Allegations from the NCAA.

announced via twitter on UNC website

Should be interesting.

UNC is supposed to release the letter of allegations to the media at some point after 7pm this evening. (Per the Adam Gold show today). I just checked WRAL and the letter has not been released as yet. Expect it sometime between now and the 11 pm news.

[JasonEvans]

UNC is supposed to release the letter of allegations to the media at some point after 7pm this evening. (Per the Adam Gold show today). I just checked WRAL and the letter has not been released as yet. Expect it sometime between now and the 11 pm news.

I fully expect to be underwhelmed with the NCAA's investigative powers.

-Jason "the assoc. head coach was funneling players to an agent -- they'll probably get off with a strongly worded warning" Evans

[Newton_14]

I fully expect to be underwhelmed with the NCAA's investigative powers.

-Jason "the assoc. head coach was funneling players to an agent -- they'll probably get off with a strongly worded warning" Evans

I agree with you here. This will barely qualify as a slap on the wrist. I hope to be shocked, but not counting on it.

Regarding the recent release of the parking tickets issue, something smells there. It is not the tickets themselves. They are meaningless on their own. The fact that UNC went thru hell and high water to prevent that information from being made public, leads me to believe there is something there. Maybe it is the car dealer, or benefits in the way of cars, but something is there. But will that be a part of the allegations? If UNC fought so hard, and nothing related to the tickets/car dealer/cars is in the allegations, then something is amiss there. It would make no sense...

[Newton_14]

WRAL just released the allegations. As expected, nothing we have not seen already. Here is the link:
http://www.wralsportsfan.com/unc/story/9760333/

Key items:
The letter outlines six violations of NCAA bylaws: Here are 3 of the allegations:
Allegations against alumna Jennifer Wiley:

- unethical conduct for refusing to provide information to the NCAA enforcement staff and to the institution
- provided extra benefits to student-athletes in the form of travel and parking expenses, and tutoring

• Allegations of academic fraud against student-athletes and the tutor

Failure by the institution to adequately monitor the conduct of Chris Hawkins, an individual triggering NCAA agent legislation; the social media activity of the football team for a period in 2010; and possible extra benefits to a student-athlete triggered by agent legislation.

[Acymetric]

I for one am not disappointed with the allegations. Some may have been hoping for LOIC but it was unlikely unless someone close to the situation both testified to Butch's direct knowledge of the allegations and had some kind of hard evidence to back it up.

You do see failure to monitor and failure to cooperate in the report though. That isn't small potatoes.