The Kyrie Irving Toe Rehab Vigil

[Inonehand]

With relatively little inside game, we have grown to rely on Nolan to slash and score in general. Singler is having trouble scoring against teams with solid bigs. That has left us with primarily the 3 point shot and we have been stone cold. Curry has been a bright spot, but he is going to have problems scoring against a long and quick guard.

Either we need contributions inside and from our 3 point shooters or we will be mired in the 60's for scoring. Our defense once touted as excellent has not been that formidable of late. Our inside defenders have difficulty with overcommitting and also blocking out. Seth has improved but still has problems staying with his man.

We either need a substantial improvement or we will lose early in both tournaments. I hoping for a change right away. We still have Nolan, who has not lost his touch all season. We just need a couple of others to step up.

My gosh. I must say this take on our team and our season amazes me somewhat. We are talking about a team that did not lose at home or in 'neutral' facilities. The fact we lost AT St. John's, an amped up Cassell Coliseum, FSU WITH Chris Singleton, and at UNC does not place this team in a spiral, IMHO. I have no idea whether we will win game one the rest of the way...I simply think the drama here is a little overboard.

[sagegrouse]

I know that hindsight is 20-20, but the course of Kyrie's treatment so far seems blindingly obvious in retrospect. Yet none of us produced timely and accurate information. For instance --

• The removal of Kyrie's cast on February 4 was probably scheduled way in advance.
  
• The replacement of the cast by a walking boot should have made it clear that Kyrie was not gonna play basketball and be limited to pool duty and other aerobic activities not stressing the foot. In fact, the omnipresent walking boot was hardly acknowledged here.
  
• At the end of February there was a Blue Planet video of Kyrie working out in the pool that was disputed by some as out-of-date, when-- in fact -- it was accurate.
  
• The return to Dr. Robert Anderson four weeks to the day after the cast removal, resulting in Kyrie's return to normal footwear and the onset of basketball practice -- "not at full speed" IIRC (and there always has to be a first time).
  
• What the heck's happening with Kyrie at practice, which only could have started Monday?

It seems odd, anyway, that all the rumors and suppositions seemed to be wrong -- including mine. But perhaps there is someone on this thread who was right at every step and totally ignored.

sagegrouse

[dukelifer]

I disagree with your first statement. The bolded part i agree with.

I just don't see the team right now as top 5. Top 10 more likely.

I think there are better teams out there. OSU. KU. PITT. ND. TEX. SDST. PUR. and you most likely have to put UNC in front of us now as well. They just wiped the floor with us.

I am not saying we can't be a top 5 team, but the way we have played over the last stretch of games leaves me very nervous for not only the ACC tourney, but the big dance as well.

There is just too much inconsistency. we have the talent, yes. but Seth. up and down. Ryan. mostly down. Mason. up and down. Singler. up and down. Andre. just down down down. we just really lack consistency right now. big time.

i am trying to stay positive here, but i just don't see it...

I think if this team started the season without Kyrie (i.e. preseason injury vs early season injury)- there would be a whole different sense of this team and there would have been much lower expectations. Much of the excitement around this team was that there was a NBA- level PG entering the program who gave Duke and it's two solid seniors a very good chance to repeat. If Duke entered the season without a true PG, there would have all types of question marks and likely a couple of early season losses that would have reset expectations. But that Duke team would have gotten better. Overall, I think this team has done very well- but sometimes luck- both bad and good plays a big part. There is still a chance that Duke's experience will help them at this point. I am pretty sure the players are confident that they can win this weekend and make a run.

[Indoor66]

I know that hindsight is 20-20, but the course of Kyrie's treatment so far seems blindingly obvious in retrospect. Yet none of us produced timely and accurate information. For instance --

• The removal of Kyrie's cast on February 4 was probably scheduled way in advance.
• The replacement of the cast by a walking boot should have made it clear that Kyrie was not gonna play basketball and be limited to pool duty and other aerobic activities not stressing the foot. In fact, the omnipresent walking boot was hardly acknowledged here.
• At the end of February there was a Blue Planet video of Kyrie working out in the pool that was disputed by some as out-of-date, when-- in fact -- it was accurate.
• The return to Dr. Robert Anderson four weeks to the day after the cast removal, resulting in Kyrie's return to normal footwear and the onset of basketball practice -- "not at full speed" IIRC (and there always has to be a first time).
• What the heck's happening with Kyrie at practice, which only could have started Monday?

It seems odd, anyway, that all the rumors and suppositions seemed to be wrong -- including mine. But perhaps there is someone on this thread who was right at every step and totally ignored.

sagegrouse

Me. After my first prediction of mid-Feb I didn't predict anything. By default I was right.

[Kedsy]

I think there are better teams out there. OSU. KU. PITT. ND. TEX. SDST. PUR. and you most likely have to put UNC in front of us now as well. They just wiped the floor with us.

Well, if you make your decisions based on one game, then you might have an argument for UNC over Duke, but I don't think that's a valid rating system.

On the other hand, if all you care about is the last game, why are you ranking Purdue, who just lost to Iowa of all teams, ahead of Duke. Or Texas, who has lost three of its last five. Pitt has lost two of its last five and Ohio State has lost two of its last seven. Your argument makes no sense.

There is just too much inconsistency. we have the talent, yes. but Seth. up and down. Ryan. mostly down. Mason. up and down. Singler. up and down. Andre. just down down down. we just really lack consistency right now. big time.

i am trying to stay positive here, but i just don't see it...

You don't sound very positive. Ryan had a bit of a clunker against UNC, and shot poorly against Va Tech as well, but overall his play has been very strong of late. Your characterization of his game as "mostly down" again suggests you are basing most of your statements on one game.

Our defense once touted as excellent has not been that formidable of late. Our inside defenders have difficulty with overcommitting and also blocking out. Seth has improved but still has problems staying with his man.

Well, I don't know how you define "of late," but even including a poor defensive performance against UNC, according to Pomeroy our defensive efficiency has improved since February 14 (when it was 87.8, 9th in the country) to now (87.0, 2nd in the country).

As far as our bigs having "difficulty" blocking out, it is worth noting that against UNC, although overall our team was outrebounded, our big men (MP1, MP2, Ryan) actually had more rebounds than UNC's vaunted collection of big men (Henson, Zeller, Knox). So, I'm not sure our bigs failing to box out was the problem.


This thread is supposed to be about Kyrie, so I repeat the obvious that having him back would help. However, even without him we are a very strong team. I don't get all the negativism.

[flyingdutchdevil]

This thread is supposed to be about Kyrie, so I repeat the obvious that having him back would help. However, even without him we are a very strong team. I don't get all the negativism.

Really? I completely understand the negativism, but that doesn't mean it's warranted. In the last week, the following has happened:

1) Lost of our biggest rivals (and the game wasn't that close)
2) Lost the ACC reg. season (when every analyst on both sides of the Mississippi said that Duke would clean up in the ACC with or without Irving. Yes, yes - we all know the media doesn't know what they are talking about, but it makes us losing the ACC feel even worse)
3) Our second best player is in a huge shooting slump

These three factors, coupled with the fact that Duke won the NC last year and our fans want more, leaves everyone a little depressed. I get it.

That said, you are on the money when you say that this team has a lot of talent and will go on a run. I am confident.

Go Duke!

[cbarry]

I think if this team started the season without Kyrie (i.e. preseason injury vs early season injury)- there would be a whole different sense of this team and there would have been much lower expectations. Much of the excitement around this team was that there was a NBA- level PG entering the program who gave Duke and it's two solid seniors a very good chance to repeat. If Duke entered the season without a true PG, there would have all types of question marks and likely a couple of early season losses that would have reset expectations. But that Duke team would have gotten better. Overall, I think this team has done very well- but sometimes luck- both bad and good plays a big part. There is still a chance that Duke's experience will help them at this point. I am pretty sure the players are confident that they can win this weekend and make a run.

Nice summary. As I read this, light bulbs went off in my head. You hit the nail on the head. With the best point guard Duke has ever seen running the team this year, even better than advertised in the early part of the season, along with Nolan and Kyle on the court, we had every reason to expect a special season. This injury is a real bummer not only to Kyrie, but to all Duke fans. He was really a pleasure to watch on the court. K had built this team's strategy around Kyrie, and although he made adjustments, it was really impossible to get us back to the level we were at pre-injury. I had held out hope for Kyrie's return, but all signs point to him not returning this season. As others have said he is almost certainly NBA bound, and I cannot fault him, as he will be a top-3 pick this year. I think Duke did the best with what they have this year. Of course, I'm going to cheer them on, but I'm definitely not getting my hopes up for a very deep run. (Then again, I didn't think last years' team would win the championship, and we see how that turned out) Best wishes to Duke and Kyrie!

[Kedsy]

With the best point guard Duke has ever seen running the team this year...

Kyrie is great, I won't argue that, but after 8 games to say he is the "best point guard Duke has ever seen" is waaaay over the top. His assist-to-turnover ratio was worse than 2 (1.86 to be precise, worse than Larry Drew II this year or last). If he'd played three or four years here, maybe we could have a discussion about how he stacked up with Bobby Hurley or Jason Williams, but not after 8 games.

Kyrie might have the greatest (pro) upside of any point guard to play at Duke (although you could make a decent argument for Jason Williams), but after only 8 games I think we do him, the team, and ourselves a disservice by saying stuff like "he's the best point guard Duke has ever seen." I think the injury has inflated his performance in many of our minds.

[cbarry]

Ok, KI has the POTENTIAL to be the best PG ever to come out of Duke. (Coach K gave KI the honor of wearing #1, an number he wouldn't let any previous Duke players use, including Jason Williams.). If he had played the full year, I think he would have been 1st team AA. I still love this Duke team, but I can't help thinking "what if"... with Kyrie on the court.

[sdotbarbee]

Wouldn't it be nice to hear something like this: Florida State coach Leonard Hamilton on Monday said he was "optimistic but cautious" that junior forward Chris Singleton might be able to play Friday in the Atlantic Coast Conference Tournament. "He's getting awful, awful close," Hamilton said. "I don't know whether he'll be ready for Friday but I don't know that he won't. He's awful close. [He has] been doing some noncontact stuff that looks very promising.

"He hasn't had any setbacks, hasn't had any pain."

I mean we get nothing, it is really depressing. The lack of info and/or mind games are driving me insane. We need some updates, please.

[oldnavy]

Kyrie is great, I won't argue that, but after 8 games to say he is the "best point guard Duke has ever seen" is waaaay over the top. His assist-to-turnover ratio was worse than 2 (1.86 to be precise, worse than Larry Drew II this year or last). If he'd played three or four years here, maybe we could have a discussion about how he stacked up with Bobby Hurley or Jason Williams, but not after 8 games.

Kyrie might have the greatest (pro) upside of any point guard to play at Duke (although you could make a decent argument for Jason Williams), but after only 8 games I think we do him, the team, and ourselves a disservice by saying stuff like "he's the best point guard Duke has ever seen." I think the injury has inflated his performance in many of our minds.

I know this has been discussed in other threads, but I agree, KI has not earned that title. To me Bobby Hurley was the best PG (hard to argue with 2 NC), but Jason Williams was a very close second...

[PADukeMom]

Silence is a good thing. Personally, if Kyrie were to come back this season I would love to see it happen Sunday.
Kyrie has the potential to be the greatest PG of all time at Duke if he stays at Duke. 8 non-ACC games, as much as I like this kid, don't count. What wonderful 8 games they were though.
Heal Kyrie.

[PADukeMom]

I know this has been discussed in other threads, but I agree, KI has not earned that title. To me Bobby Hurley was the best PG (hard to argue with 2 NC), but Jason Williams was a very close second...

IDK...I think I prefer Jason slightly over Bobby. Jason had that swagger that I have been missing at PG lately until Kyrie came along. 57 seconds at Maryland will always be my J-Will moment..err..minute.

[Kedsy]

If he had played the full year, I think he would have been 1st team AA. I still love this Duke team, but I can't help thinking "what if"... with Kyrie on the court.

I agree that if Kyrie had played the full year he'd have had a good chance at 1st team AA. The difference between us is I find thinking "what if" diminishes the actuality of what has been a really good season for the team we have had -- a team I personally have greatly enjoyed watching -- and which still has a decent chance of finishing as a great season.

[oldnavy]

IDK...I think I prefer Jason slightly over Bobby. Jason had that swagger that I have been missing at PG lately until Kyrie came along. 57 seconds at Maryland will always be my J-Will moment..err..minute.

Here is how I look at it, we are picking teams for a game, and I will give you first pick. I will be happy with the one you didn't pick...

But, Bobby Hurley did have a swagger about him... very much so, especially after his freshman year... His three pointer in the UNLV game was one of the greatest shots if not the greatest pressure packed shots in Duke history and he didn't even hesitate... he had some swagger now.

Jason is one of my all time favorites, my sons met him and his mother and he is one of the nicest, down to earth people you will ever meet.

You just can't go wrong with either of those two...

[soccerstud2210]

Well, if you make your decisions based on one game, then you might have an argument for UNC over Duke, but I don't think that's a valid rating system.

On the other hand, if all you care about is the last game, why are you ranking Purdue, who just lost to Iowa of all teams, ahead of Duke. Or Texas, who has lost three of its last five. Pitt has lost two of its last five and Ohio State has lost two of its last seven. Your argument makes no sense.



You don't sound very positive. Ryan had a bit of a clunker against UNC, and shot poorly against Va Tech as well, but overall his play has been very strong of late. Your characterization of his game as "mostly down" again suggests you are basing most of your statements on one game.



Well, I don't know how you define "of late," but even including a poor defensive performance against UNC, according to Pomeroy our defensive efficiency has improved since February 14 (when it was 87.8, 9th in the country) to now (87.0, 2nd in the country).

As far as our bigs having "difficulty" blocking out, it is worth noting that against UNC, although overall our team was outrebounded, our big men (MP1, MP2, Ryan) actually had more rebounds than UNC's vaunted collection of big men (Henson, Zeller, Knox). So, I'm not sure our bigs failing to box out was the problem.


This thread is supposed to be about Kyrie, so I repeat the obvious that having him back would help. However, even without him we are a very strong team. I don't get all the negativism.

You have to remember that we are playing in an extremely weak ACC. Other teams are playing in conferences with multiple ranked opponents.

Purdue is 8-1 in their last 9 games. Beating #1 OSU, and #13 Wisconsin

Ohio St has only two losses. Against #9 Purdue and #13 Wisconsin

Pitt is 9-2 in their last 11. With losses coming in OT to #14 Louisville and by 1 at
#17 SJU (where we were blown out of the water by 15. score closer than it was)

ND 11-1 in last 12. loss coming at #20 WVU. beating ranked pitt, louis, wvu, uconn

Texas. i'll give you this one. although in a head to head I think we lose this one. but that is more my opinion

UNC 12-1 in last 13. one against us. wouldn't have been except for superman seth to save the day!

SDST. who knows. haven't really seen them play much. only losses all year to BYU

What I am saying is that the competition around the other conferences is significantly better. Which is not our fault. It's just simply how it is this year. youth. injuries. but losses to Wisconsins or Louisvilles or WVU are a little more tolerable when you play against that competition day in and out. Not a VTech or an FSU.

I like your optimism Kedsy! I really do! and I'm trying to allow it to rub off on me but this team reminds me of the duke teams a couple yrs ago (excluding last years amazing feats and ride!) who make it through the regular season and then fizzle out in the Big Dance.

I'm on board. Don't get me wrong. And I think we have the talent to be top5. but we are not right now. something is just missing or not clicking. (no i don't mean kyrie. because with kyrie i don't even think we would be having this discussion, but we don't. and in mind my we will never see him in a duke jersey again. i say that because if we do, i will be infinitely more happy than if i hope he will be back and he doesn't come back)

Here's to a great ACC Tourney and Post Season!!!!!!! Go Duke!!!!

[House G]

Silence is a good thing. Personally, if Kyrie were to come back this season I would love to see it happen Sunday.
Kyrie has the potential to be the greatest PG of all time at Duke if he stays at Duke. 8 non-ACC games, as much as I like this kid, don't count. What wonderful 8 games they were though.
Heal Kyrie.

This has probably been discussed in this or other threads. If Kyrie were to return this week, would this factor into Duke's seed? If it potentially helps our seed and Coach K thinks he is likely to play again this season, would there be any incentive to have him dress out, warm up, and perhaps play prior to Selection Sunday? My guess is that the Committee would factor it in if he were able to play beyond a cameo appearance. (This is aside from the fact that it would be good to get him some PT before the Big Dance).

[DukeFanNJ]

I have finally figured out when we can expect Kyrie back. I have been following his tweets. He just tweeted that his birthday was 14 days away. This is not the first time he has tweeted how many days until his birthday. I know it sounds crazy but I think there is a message and not just about his birthday. I now believe he will be back dor the 2nd round games of the tourney.

[dukefan75]

http://www.danpatrick.com/2011/03/08...r-of-year-nba/

Interview with Nolan:

DP: "Is there any chance Kyrie plays this year?"

Nolan: "Uh...I dont know, hes been working really hard, doing his rehab. Theres still no call on it. Hes not back running or playing yet, im not sure."

DP: "Is there a chance he would be able to play in 2 weeks"

Nolan: "We have a great staff here working on it,so I dont see why not. The main goal is to get him healthy and prepare him for his career."

[hurley1]

Kyrie is great, I won't argue that, but after 8 games to say he is the "best point guard Duke has ever seen" is waaaay over the top. His assist-to-turnover ratio was worse than 2 (1.86 to be precise, worse than Larry Drew II this year or last). If he'd played three or four years here, maybe we could have a discussion about how he stacked up with Bobby Hurley or Jason Williams, but not after 8 games.

Kyrie might have the greatest (pro) upside of any point guard to play at Duke (although you could make a decent argument for Jason Williams), but after only 8 games I think we do him, the team, and ourselves a disservice by saying stuff like "he's the best point guard Duke has ever seen." I think the injury has inflated his performance in many of our minds.

i'll take hurley over irving any day, but, i really, really like irving....