MBB: Duke 80, Terps 62 Post-Game Thread

[dukelifer]

I don't know that I'd go that far about Thornton. In addition to his struggles with the press, he also threw a couple of very bad passes in the half court that resulted in turnovers. For all the positives about his hustle and intensity, he still has a ways to go as a ballhandler.

Not perfect-yes- but he brings intensity and a defensive mentality- Duke will only win if they play good D. He also showed ability to run the show and make good decisions. He is Frosh with one start- he can get better. He definitely does not look scared out there.

[superdave]

I just had a thought. In the first Maryland game, the Terps double and triple teamed Nolan, forcing him into 5 turnovers and one of his worst (5 for 18) shooting performances of the season. They were the first team to institute a "stop Nolan" strategy as a means of shutting down our offense (although Florida State and maybe another team or two went that route in subsequent games).

It was pretty successful at the game in Cameron, and presumably Gary had his team practicing that tactic all week. So what happens when the teams line up for the opening tip? Tyler is at point and Nolan is off the ball. If I'm right about Maryland's pre-game strategy it would have totally thrown them off their game. Which it did.

I'm just speculating, but if that's the way it played out, Coach K made a pretty smart move (no surprise). But it also means Tyler starting at the point might have been a one-game surprise, rather than a long-term thing.

Time will tell.

I think you might be right about TT throwing a matchup monkey wrench into Gary's game plan. Also, Nolan played only 28 minutes, so there was a second reason why alleged Gary game plan could have been thrown off last night. I think most of those 12 minutes on the bench were in the 1st half too.

[Kedsy]

Nolan's scoring threat at the 2 surpasses his passing threat at point IMO. Or to be blunt, TT's passing ability is probably no less effective than Nolan's. So why not let Nolan, our best scorer by stats, focus on getting bucket?

I completely disagree with this. First of all, freshman Tyler is not nearly as good a passer as senior Nolan. It's true that Tyler is more of a pass-first guard while Nolan is more of a shoot-first, but think about Nolan's pass to Kyle late in the 2nd half against Maryland. It was superior to anything we've seen from Tyler.

Second, Nolan is best with the ball in his hands. He gets more points and gets more assists. My biggest issue with Tyler at the point is that Nolan looked a lot worse as the SG beside Tyler as he has as the PG aside any of our other guards. If we had Kyrie at the point, then we can live with Nolan's lesser production at the SG position. But don't kid yourself, Nolan scores more and distributes more when he is the initiator.

[gofurman]

Great game ! only concern I had was everyone knows you are supposed to make a team pay for the press and DUke would wear themselves out getting it up the court only to pull back and play 5 on 5. Press is bball equivalent of the blitz... if you beat it, beat it big time.

BBall 101 says if the D presses and you beat it - GO at the basket as you have 2 on 2 or 3 on 3

Why did we not do that? To pull back for 5 on 5 only wears out the O and gains nothing once you beat the press. Any thoughts? possibly bc we had TT out there?

[taiw93]

http://dukeblueplanet.smugmug.com/20...76460515_HNnZ4

I found this very funny, especially since it's a verb in that context...

[Newton_14]

I completely disagree with this. First of all, freshman Tyler is not nearly as good a passer as senior Nolan. It's true that Tyler is more of a pass-first guard while Nolan is more of a shoot-first, but think about Nolan's pass to Kyle late in the 2nd half against Maryland. It was superior to anything we've seen from Tyler.

Second, Nolan is best with the ball in his hands. He gets more points and gets more assists. My biggest issue with Tyler at the point is that Nolan looked a lot worse as the SG beside Tyler as he has as the PG aside any of our other guards. If we had Kyrie at the point, then we can live with Nolan's lesser production at the SG position. But don't kid yourself, Nolan scores more and distributes more when he is the initiator.

I am torn on this one Kedsy. Call it a conundrum of sorts. First, I agree with all you say here. I feel Nolan is best with the ball in his hands, and I feel more comfortable with Nolan running the point. I also agree that Nolan did not seem all that comfortable last night and did not shoot the ball well from outside. That said...

I loved our offense on the whole in the first half last night. It looked soo much better to me watching all 5 guys involved and scoring, with us not playing 2 on 5. We made it a point to establish Mason as a scoring threat and it greatly helped him. We also looked for Miles in the post. We moved and shared the ball better, and it led to shots coming in the rhythm of the offense, and good shots like that tend to go in the basket. It totally confused Maryland. The last 17 points in the first half came from guys not named Nolan or Kyle. Aside from the last minute it was a really good half for our offense. I was disappointed that we went away from that quite a bit in the 2nd half.

To be all it can be, this team must get points from the supporting cast on a regular basis, and share the ball the way it was being shared when we had Kyrie. If Tyler can cut down on his mistakes (all of them last night were bad passes. 1 against the press and 3 in the half court set), and be able to play even 15 to 20 minutes, I think it can help. Honestly.

Now, for it to come together perfectly, we have to figure out how to get Nolan comfortable, even if it means he still runs the point quite a bit with Tyler on the floor.

On the other hand, there is really no reason why we cannot run the offense we ran in the 1st half, no matter who is on the court. We should be able to share the ball, establish the post, make the extra pass, etc no matter which of the guys we have on the floor. That is key imo. That and tightening our defense where we are not getting beat off the dribble and letting penetrators get in the lane at will.

I am interested to see how this plays out over the next few games.

[Utley]

I haven't read all the posts, but I just wondered if the Maryland crowd was as nasty as they usually are. I realize they didn't have a lot to cheer about, but did they still use all those really disgusting cheers .... like "F... you Duke"?

I live in northern VA and have been to 10 of the last 10 MD home games (including 2001 ) I would characterize this as the most subdued crowd during that time. I spoke to a few Terps I work with who verified that - who at the same time made it clear that its always the highest intensity game of the season. Last year's game was electric, as were the games between 2001 - 2003.

I only heard one burst of profanity - an F Duke chant just before tip-off. A sizable lead and a strong sense of us being in control had the fans fretting throughout. I also saw more Duke Blue than I ever remember. MD let the students in four hours and gave a number of sportsmanship messages pre-game including one from renowned Duke hater and Terp alumni SVP. I think the lack of alcohol during those 4 hours was really helpful as well.

[tbyers11]

Great game ! only concern I had was everyone knows you are supposed to make a team pay for the press and DUke would wear themselves out getting it up the court only to pull back and play 5 on 5. Press is bball equivalent of the blitz... if you beat it, beat it big time.

BBall 101 says if the D presses and you beat it - GO at the basket as you have 2 on 2 or 3 on 3

Why did we not do that? To pull back for 5 on 5 only wears out the O and gains nothing once you beat the press. Any thoughts? possibly bc we had TT out there?

As pfrduke noted above, Maryland generally only traps the first or maybe the second pass in their press and then they get back and play halfcourt D. We thwarted this by generally passing directly to a player (frequently a big man) just in front of halfcourt. We did have a slight advantage in numbers but is it really an advantage if the ball is in Miles or Mason's hands?

Additionally, MD uses this press more as an attempt to increase tempo than to actually force steals. They do this because they are quite effective at transition offense. As noted a few times last night and in previous games, transition defense is not one of Duke's strong suits. I think Duke was wise to throw over the top (to avoid the one strong trap) and then to slow it up to avoid getting in a running game with the Terps.

[UrinalCake]

I live in northern VA and have been to 10 of the last 10 MD home games (including 2001 ) I would characterize this as the most subdued crowd during that time.

I kind of got that sense even watching the game online. I couple of times a Maryland player was called for an obvious foul and the fans didn't even bother to complain to the refs about it, which is usually mandatory. Either they're starting to recognize that some good calls do go against them (not likely) or they just didn't care enough.

[Kedsy]

On the other hand, there is really no reason why we cannot run the offense we ran in the 1st half, no matter who is on the court. We should be able to share the ball, establish the post, make the extra pass, etc no matter which of the guys we have on the floor. That is key imo. That and tightening our defense where we are not getting beat off the dribble and letting penetrators get in the lane at will.

I completely agree that these are the keys. And I also agree that we can run the share-the-ball offense with Nolan running the point as good or better than with Tyler at PG.

I have no hard evidence for this, but I believe the coaching staff has told Nolan to think shot-first when he's running the point. Remember his first game at PG he dished 10 dimes and scored two points? (As an aside, his scoring average would be close to a point higher per game if he'd try to score in that game, which is interesting to think about.) I think Nolan could find a happy medium between 2 pts 10 assists and 22 points, 6 assists, and that this whole conversation could be moot.

I'm thrilled that Tyler has found his niche on the team and is contributing as a freshman. My issue is minutes are limited and I'd rather see him go all out for 12 minutes and let Andre, Seth, and Miles get theirs than have him conserving his energy for 28 minutes and making one or more of the other guys sit.

Just my opinion, of course.

[AZLA]

Sound points and opinion -- but I would get used to seeing TT having more minutes running point.