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Thread: Andre?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 94duke View Post
    I believe Curry was able to practice with the team last year.
    I was not aware of that, I read recently that he had not been allowed to practice but now that I think about it thats obviously not the case as Knox jumped right into the rotation at UNC. Could someone actually explain the rules regarding transferring and playing immediately vs. sitting out a year?

    Also, good point with Andre Dawkins' high school freshman year, again I was not aware of that.

  2. #22
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    Feb 2007
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    Washington, D.C.

    Bring 'em back

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    I also wouldn't say he has longer arms - does he really? I'd say Curry has quicker hands for sure though.
    Hard to tell without cinder blocks.

  3. #23
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    Atlanta, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by epoulsen View Post
    I was not aware of that, I read recently that he had not been allowed to practice but now that I think about it thats obviously not the case as Knox jumped right into the rotation at UNC. Could someone actually explain the rules regarding transferring and playing immediately vs. sitting out a year?
    Knox did not have to sit out because he graduated from Alabama in three years, then enrolled at unc in a graduate program that is not offered at Alabama (I have no idea what program that is).
    Transfers sitting out are still permitted to participate fully in practices and other team activities; they just can't play in games.

  4. #24
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    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by Cockabeau View Post
    Before the season I correctly predicted that Curry not Dawkins would be the key factor.

    Dawkins has a problem in that he has very short arms and he is very slow laterally for a guard his size. This is not a good combination for defense. Also he appears to have problems dribbling the ball.

    Curry is a Dawkins with much longer arms and better ball handling skills.
    Andre has played more minutes than Seth this year, has a better scoring average, a better rebounding average, and is outshooting Seth 53% to 39%. Seth has scored in double-figures once (last night) in his last five games. So which part of your prediction was "correct"? In what way has Seth shown he is the "key factor" more than Andre?

    While it's true you spent the entire off-season touting how Seth was going to start, play big minutes, and dominate, it's also true that when Andre was playing well and Seth wasn't, you mischaracterized your previous position to suggest you said the two were interchangeable.

    And since you bring up defense, up until the last couple games it was Andre and not Seth who was getting the most raves for his D. The fact remains that Seth is way too small to guard most SFs in the ACC. Boston College might be the only ACC team against which we can get away with Nolan/Seth/Tyler (or Nolan/Seth/Kyrie, if Kyrie were available) for any length of time. This is why in my opinion, Andre is more of a "key factor" than Seth, although obviously the ideal situation would be if both Andre and Seth play well, because if they're both hot from the outside, we are awfully hard to stop.

    I'm thrilled Seth played so well last night, and hope he keeps it up. But please stop patting yourself on the back for nothing.

  5. #25
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    Both players have key roles this year. Seth's ability to bring the ball up (and slide Nolan over to the wing or for a bit of a breather) is something Andre has not developed yet. But I disagree with the idea that Andre is pouting or that there is "something wrong" here. He is in a bit of a slump, and I am sure everyone on the team and staff is telling him to keep having faith in himself and to keep shooting.

    Andre and Seth are both running their own races. Both are big contributors to where we are so far, and where we hope to go.
    "Enjoy every sandwich" -- Warren Zevon

  6. #26
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    Jun 2008
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    Winston Salem, NC

    Oh no!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cockabeau View Post
    Before the season I correctly predicted that Curry not Dawkins would be the key factor.

    Dawkins has a problem in that he has very short arms and he is very slow laterally for a guard his size. This is not a good combination for defense. Also he appears to have problems dribbling the ball.

    Curry is a Dawkins with much longer arms and better ball handling skills.
    As soon as I saw this post, I knew we would soon have a Dawkins vs. Curry argument going. Let's face it. We need both Andre and Seth to perform up to their capabilities. And both have not been consistent in their play. Andre started off like an NBA player(well someone said he was playing like one). As some have mentioned, he has played far below that level for several games. Seth has not shot the ball well until this last game. So that does not mean he's turned the corner. And I don't have any idea who has the longest arms. I'm not saying either is playing better than the other. We do have a HOF coach that has recently seen reason to reduce Andre's minutes. I would say that's because of his defense and ball handling. But that's just a guess. I'm rooting for Andre to start playing like we all know he can. I feel like the best way to accomplish that would be to show more emotion and hustle his rear end off(in practice and in games). Seth needs to use this last game as a stepping stone and shoot the ball with confidence. I'm not choosing sides because I love both these guys and we really need for them to step up. We've seen Ryan sort of turn the corner. Now let's hope we see the same from Andre and Seth. Go Duke!

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jv001 View Post
    We've seen Ryan sort of turn the corner. Now let's hope we see the same from Andre and Seth. Go Duke!
    Great point. Plus Mason has settled in as a rebounding machine and Miles seems more comfortable in his defensive role. If these five players (Ryan/Andre/Seth/Mason/Miles) are all contributing at a reasonably high level we'll be right where we want to be.

  8. #28
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    Jun 2008
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    Winston Salem, NC

    Amen

    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Great point. Plus Mason has settled in as a rebounding machine and Miles seems more comfortable in his defensive role. If these five players (Ryan/Andre/Seth/Mason/Miles) are all contributing at a reasonably high level we'll be right where we want to be.
    Great points regarding Mason and Miles. Several posters have really bashed these two guys, but as far as I'm concerned they are doing pretty much what's asked of them. I know Mason needs a low post move, but most of the time he sets up high. I guess that's by design. He could also improve his FT shooting. Miles has gotten more physical and has played well. Even shown a good touch when shooting the ball. And Ryan has really come on strong. He's shooting well, but more than that he's showing great basketball IQ. Yes if all 5 of these guys even come close to contributing at a high level, we'll be fine. Go Duke!

  9. #29
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    Feb 2007
    First, as I have stated before, Seth is a more important factor in Duke success, right now than Andre is. That does not mean Duke doesn't need Andre, because they will for sure.

    What Seth brings to the table is that he can run the point. He was a point guard at Liberty and showed he could be a big time scorer from there. Lead all freshman in scoring with a 20+ ppg average. Playing Seth at the point allows Nolan to roam. Nolan put up good points when Kyrie was at the point (and Jon), thus I believe Coach really doesn't want to use Nolan at the point and Seth is the best match for that. Tyler can play the point but he can't score like Seth. Andre can score like Seth but he can't run the point.

    Thus, IMO, if Duke wants to be as close to being a threat to win it all, without Kyrie, Seth has to run the point.

    Andre, much like Miles, needs to build his confidence up and needs to understand his role. A role of him coming off the bench to spell someone and be a contributor. Every team that wins a title has done so because they had role players who contributed in their own way.

    Last year was a prime example. Mason and Miles came off the bench to spell Lance and Zo. Without them being contributors off the bench I don't think Duke wins it.

    Andre, and Miles, time is coming. They just need to know when it will be. Much like Andre's 3's last year against Baylor.

    The problem is, too many people think someone needs to fill the stats line to be considered a contributor. Lance didn't fill the stats line last year but he was a huge contributor. Don't discount what guys like Andre and Miles mean to this team.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by jv001 View Post
    Great points regarding Mason and Miles. Several posters have really bashed these two guys, but as far as I'm concerned they are doing pretty much what's asked of them. I know Mason needs a low post move, but most of the time he sets up high. I guess that's by design. He could also improve his FT shooting. Miles has gotten more physical and has played well. Even shown a good touch when shooting the ball. And Ryan has really come on strong. He's shooting well, but more than that he's showing great basketball IQ. Yes if all 5 of these guys even come close to contributing at a high level, we'll be fine. Go Duke!
    I agree that the level of criticism of these guys is too high. However, I'd caveat your statement that there's still quite a bit of room for improvement before I'd say they're where we want them to be.

    As you note, Mason's offensive game is still very limited and his FT shooting is atrocious. That could be a problem when we face better teams. He's been terrific on the boards since 2011 began, and had several monster rebound games in November/December as well. He's getting better in terms of his decision making on the offensive end, too. The next step for him is to figure out a way to be a bit more relevant offensively, and to start hitting those FT% at least 50-60% of the time moving forward.

    Miles has shown flashes of some real offensive gifts. Mason has, too, but Miles moreso. Where Miles seems to be struggling is in consistency. The guy seems to have a couple of solid/strong outings and then disappears for a few games. We don't need him to be a force every night out. He just needs to be a presence more consistently.

    It would help both players if there were a few more easy opportunities for them. Our wing players are very good, but they're score-first, drive-and-kick-out guys for the most part. That doesn't play to the Plumlee's strengths. And because neither is a consistent back to the basket threat yet, their opportunities on offense are limited.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    And because neither is a consistent back to the basket threat yet
    There's the operative, right there. I recall possibly hundreds of miles of postings commenting on Zoubs needing to become what he eventually, magnificently became.
    It's all coming along for our Plumlees, yes it is!

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    There's the operative, right there. I recall possibly hundreds of miles of postings commenting on Zoubs needing to become what he eventually, magnificently became.
    It's all coming along for our Plumlees, yes it is!
    Are you saying that Wo-Jo can coach big men? Go Duke!

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by wilson View Post
    Knox did not have to sit out because he graduated from Alabama in three years, then enrolled at unc in a graduate program that is not offered at Alabama (I have no idea what program that is).
    Transfers sitting out are still permitted to participate fully in practices and other team activities; they just can't play in games.
    Grass mowing.

  14. #34
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    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by dukeimac View Post
    What Seth brings to the table is that he can run the point. He was a point guard at Liberty and showed he could be a big time scorer from there. Lead all freshman in scoring with a 20+ ppg average. Playing Seth at the point allows Nolan to roam. Nolan put up good points when Kyrie was at the point (and Jon), thus I believe Coach really doesn't want to use Nolan at the point and Seth is the best match for that. Tyler can play the point but he can't score like Seth. Andre can score like Seth but he can't run the point.

    Thus, IMO, if Duke wants to be as close to being a threat to win it all, without Kyrie, Seth has to run the point.
    While this sounds logical, I don't think it matches the reality we've been seeing. When Seth and Nolan are on the floor together, Nolan has been running the point and Seth has for the most part been off the ball. Last night, when Nolan, Seth, and Tyler were out there, Nolan still seemed to be running the point much more often than not.

  15. #35
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    Jun 2008
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    Winston Salem, NC

    Running the point

    Nolan has the ball in his hands on most every trip down the court(offense). Seth does help handle the ball in some sets, but Nolan usually has the ball in his hands. However Seth at times will guard the opponents pg and take some pressure off of Nolan in that regard. Tyler plays basically the same way when he's on the court. Andre does not have the handle to help with ball handling duties and he cannot guard the opposing pg. So in essence, Nolan is the point guard most of the game. Go Duke!

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by jv001 View Post
    Nolan has the ball in his hands on most every trip down the court(offense). Seth does help handle the ball in some sets, but Nolan usually has the ball in his hands. However Seth at times will guard the opponents pg and take some pressure off of Nolan in that regard. Tyler plays basically the same way when he's on the court. Andre does not have the handle to help with ball handling duties and he cannot guard the opposing pg. So in essence, Nolan is the point guard most of the game. Go Duke!
    I've notice that too and am somewhat mystified by it. I have the sense (confirmed by others on this board) that it would benefit the team and Nolan to let him play at the #2 guard spot and let Tyler and Seth take the lead at point for some stretches of the game. But as long as Nolan is on the floor the offensive sets almost always start with him at point.

    Nolan seems to have stopped over-forcing the action, but that may just be my perception because no one since FSU has been able to stop his penetration.

  17. #37

    The Duke Basketball Fish Bowl

    Good news for Mr. Dawkins and Duke...everytime someone gets criticized...they step up...see Zoubs, Lance, the Plums, Kelly, etc., etc., etc.

    The criticism of Dre is way out of line IMO. He has had a very, very good sophomore season and has been an important part of the team this season (including the second half against UVA and first half against State during his "slump"). I will acknoweldge that Andre has had a couple rough games defensively but he seemed to make great effort on defense last night (he had 6 points scored against him by my count -- on a 3 and an and one -- and saved a sure bucket with a great block). Also, credit to him for playing within the offense rather than forcing bad shots the last few games. Many players of his offensive ability would be unwilling to be a good teammate and play within the team structure when they aren't scoring to the extent they are used to. He is also actively cheering on his teammates when they make good plays...if you don't see that, you aren't watching.

    The last few games, Dre has not had as many offensive opportunities as earlier in the season for a variety of reasons (1. Not being the top option, 2. A lot more defensive focus on him at the 3 point line, 3. Less minutes, etc.). Also, as much as Dre spoiled us with great shooting early in the season, even great shooters like him miss sometimes. Let's cut the guy some slack -- besides most of his shots are right on line and just missing by a bit.

    Glad to see Curry step up, and he certainly earned the time he got last night. I expect that both Curry and Dawkins will step up for us down the stretch, and we will need them both to do so with or without Kyrie. Thank goodness we have so many great options...Kyle, Nolan, and Kyrie can't do it all, and they are not going to be "on" every game. I imagine Dre, Seth, the Plums, and Kelly would be primary scoring options on many ACC teams. They are sacrificing their own stat lines for the good of the team. Let's not lose sight of this and the larger picture in our haste to jump on what we perceive as a disappointing performance or two.

  18. #38
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    Feb 2008
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    I think it is attitude related. I posted back last month that right before the end of the first half in the St Louis game, Andre could clearly be seen talking back to the coaching staff. I presumed it was due to a missed defensive assignment because as he sat there pouting, that quick little guard for the Bilikins turned the corner on Nolan, and you could see Andre throw out his arms like to say "see, he isn't guarding him any better". Obviously I could not hear the discussion, but I was surprised to see Andre's body language and facial expressions. He was obviously not liking what he was hearing. They were "childish" to say the least. To be honest I was surprised that he started the second half, but he got pulled pretty quick and sat the rest of the game.

    May not be anything related to this, but that is my guess....

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Bahama (that is NC)

    Some perspective

    Nolan's soph year - Played in 34 games with 21 starts ... averaged 8.4 points, 2.2 rebounds and 1.7 assists per game

    This year:
    Andre - played in 20 games started 7.... 10.4 points 2.4 rbs and .9 assts
    Seth - played in 20 started 5 .... 8.3 points, 1.4 rbs and 1.8 assts

    Not to say either will be a Nolan but we all remember some real up and down times for Nolan duing that year. Never thought he would be effective running the point from his performance that year. I believe both Dre and Seth will be developing in their own ways at their own pace and we will be pleased with the results from both.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jv001 View Post
    Great points regarding Mason and Miles. Several posters have really bashed these two guys, but as far as I'm concerned they are doing pretty much what's asked of them. I know Mason needs a low post move, but most of the time he sets up high. I guess that's by design. He could also improve his FT shooting.
    http://tlorc.wordpress.com/2011/01/2...e-in-the-post/

    I'm surprised this article hasn't generated a bit more discussion. It's a great breakdown of Mason on offense. I don't want to be critical of Mason. He's a great kid and has been playing good defense and rebounding like mad, but our team offense could elevate to another level if Mason were to become a bit more of a threat. He's clearly athletic enough. Maybe he just needs more confidence, a little mean streak/aggression when he receives the ball.
    Last edited by Bob Green; 01-28-2011 at 08:10 PM. Reason: Fix quote tag

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