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  1. #1

    FSU's Best Team Since ...

    In the ACC Roundup on the front page, it suggests that this could be the best FSU team since Dave Cowens was on campus ...

    Well, that's clearly wrong -- FSU's best team EVER came after Cowens left campus -- the 1972 Final Four team that beat UNC in the NCAA semifinals, then lost to UCLA (with sophomore Bill Walton) in the finals. That team finished 10th (the only top 10 finish in school history). That was after Cowens.

    Still, it got me thinking, is this the best FSU team in a long time? In terms of RPI, it's not comparable with several recent teams -- it's not as good as last year's team. But this FSU team is contending for a better ACC finish than any team since the Sam Cassell/Doug Edwards/Bob Sura teams of 1992 and 1993. Those two teams finished second in the ACC in FSU's first two years in the league. The '93 team finished No. 11 in the nation.

    But FSU followed that strong ACC start with 12 straight second-division finishes before the 2006 'Noles made it to fifth (in the 12 team ACC). They were back in the second division in 2007 and 2008, but the 2009 team finished a clearcut 4th and last year's team finished tied for third.

    So in terms of ACC standing, FSU has a chance to either have its best finish ever (if the 'Noles can beat out or tie Duke for first) or at least match their best ACC finish ever (if they finish second). Although that may reflect the weakened state of the ACC more than any historic performance on their part ...

  2. #2
    FSU finished 10-6 in the ACC two years ago. Considering how weak the ACC is this year, my off-the-head number is that if they finish 11-5 or worse this year, you have to give the 2009 team (which beat eventual national champ UNC in the ACCT, and had a strong ACC POY contender in Toney Douglas) the edge. But I reserve the right to change my mind if this team makes a run to the Sweet 16, as the 2009 team lost in the first round as a 5 seed to Wisconsin.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Fsu 1972

    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    Well, that's clearly wrong -- FSU's best team EVER came after Cowens left campus -- the 1972 Final Four team that beat UNC in the NCAA semifinals, then lost to UCLA (with sophomore Bill Walton) in the finals. That team finished 10th (the only top 10 finish in school history). That was after Cowens.
    Had two Muggsy Bogues-style point guards, Otto Petty and Greg Samuels, and just terrorized their opponents with pressure D. Can't remember, but I think Hugh Durham was the coach.

  4. #4
    KenPom.com absolutely loves the Seminoles on defense. They have the 3rd most efficient defense in the country, are the best at defending the 2-point shot, the 10th best at defending the 3-point shot, and actually have the best effective FG%.

    They are clearly lacking a solid point guard on offense. If Ian Miller comes back at anywhere near full strength, they could be a very dangerous team in the tourney.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by airowe View Post
    KenPom.com absolutely loves the Seminoles on defense. They have the 3rd most efficient defense in the country, are the best at defending the 2-point shot, the 10th best at defending the 3-point shot, and actually have the best effective FG%.

    They are clearly lacking a solid point guard on offense. If Ian Miller comes back at anywhere near full strength, they could be a very dangerous team in the tourney.
    What is the basis for your conclusion that Miller will be a big improvement over Kitchen. Kitchen is not your typical point guard but his a/to is nearly 2, he rebounds well for a point guard and he has shot well. Miller doesn't shoot well and his a/to is 0.5. I've only seen them play a couple of times but their starting lineup of Singleton (scoring, defense and rebounding), Kitchen (scoring, rebounding and ballhandling), Snaer/Dulkys (shooting) and James (rebounding, defense) seemed like a good starting five to me but I may be missing something. The key for them, IMO, is for Snaer and Dulkys to shoot well from the perimeter.

    gw67

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Wonderful!

    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Great article, Jim. I had forgotten about the UNC matchup in the Final Four. I remembered the UCLA loss (I was in junior high school in Jacksonville, FL, at the time, and had seen my Jacksonville team lose to UCLA in 1970), although it is a painful memory.

    Rowland Garrett was a very good player. I remember a story a friend told me about seeing Garrett in the NBA, in the open court heading for a dunk, with only one defender back, Kareem. He said Garrett took about 4 steps and slammed it on Kareem. The ref called traveling, of course, but Garrett sort of got his dunk.

  8. #8

    Hugh Durham

    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Great article, Jim, but I wonder how you could write it with a straight face.

    I know that you KNOW that Durham was one of the dirtiest coaches of all time -- he made John Calipari look like Dean Smith.

    One of the big stories at the 1972 Final Four was the outrage at the Coaches Convention (always held at the Final Four) over Florida State's presence. Coaches usually close ranks publically over their crooked comrades (how many coaches have you heard rip Calipari?), but in 1972 there were many coaches who were anxious to rip Durham and his dirty program. The president of the NABC made it a major issue at his press conference, suggesting rules to prevent a blatant cheater like Durham from bringing a team to the NCAA Tournament.

    One of the most outspoken critics of Durham and the 'Noles that weekend was an up-and-coming coach at Long Beach State. Jerry Tarkanian was extremely critical of Durham.

    I don't know it for a fact, but I've always suspected that the '72 Final Four changed Tarkanian. He watched the championship game between UCLA (a program bankrolled by drug money laundered by a sugar daddy named Sam Gilbert) and Durham's outlaw Seminoles and realized that in NCAA basketball, cheaters DO prosper ... and decided that it pays to cheat.

    At least, that's my reconstruction of his career.

    PS I see where the ACC has decided to honor Hugh Durham as one of its 'Legends' this year. Who's next, Terry Litchfield?

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