MBB: FSU 66, Duke 61 Post Game Thread

[DukeHoopsGuru]

A road loss to a good team isn't the end of the world, but this is 2006 without Kyrie. It's scary how similar they are.

1. Redick = Smith
2. Williams = Singler
3. McRoberts = Mason (Both -edited- McDonald's AA)
4. Nelson = Dawkins (both 1 dimensional in what they do offensively)
5. Paulus = Curry (both good shooters, good hoops IQ, can't sniff a drive)

Again not the end of the world, but could see a Sweet 16 exit against a team just like this and just like LSU.

[Bob Green]

Discuss the game here. Please remain calm folks, the sun will rise tomorrow.

[TheRob8801]

Hats off to FSU. We got outplayed and outcoached tonight.

ACC coaches with any length of tenure typically outcoach K when the talent doesn't match up.

All it takes to beat Duke is an above average D, 1 or 2 big men who rebound and a few variables.

FSU just followed the formula. Their extra variables were a poor Duke shooting night and a career game from Kitchen.

It's not like we've not seem this same exact script play out in the majority of Duke losses in the past, ESPECIALLY in conference.

[Bluedevil114]

Dawkins was getting killed all night by Kitchen. The Plumlees did not show up and our three point shooting for two-thirds of the game was just terrible. We settled for all jump shots and when the do not fall you lose to an inferior team like FSU. Too many turnovers by Smith and Curry and that is a losing formula.

Great second half from Singler tonight.

I feel very bad for Virgina on Saturday.

[aav2aav2]

Plumlees were MIA tonight. This season has been, for the most part, a huge disappointment for them. Kyrie going down significantly impacted their performance as they have no traditional low post game. It has been way too long since we had a real big man on our team.

[Greg_Newton]

It's not so much that we lost, but how we lost that bothers me.

I know I just need to accept that, for the recent past and foreseeable future, Duke has been and will be primarily a finesse, jump-shooting team. But it's a shame, because I love watching good power basketball and post play. I guess you just take the good with the bad and be thankful we still have K.

But... if Kyle doesn't make a series of ridiculous threes, we're not even in the game at the end. Even when we cut it to 59-58 on Nolan's three, the ball never went inside the three-point line during the entire possession. That just not good basketball. I think I can count on one hand the number of times we made FSU defend the rim today.

As for the result, a lot of people predicted this would be our first loss, no biggie. But it's not fun to see your team get bullied and not really know how to fight back besides chucking up deeper and deeper threes.

[Billy Dat]

ACC coaches with any length of tenure typically outcoach K when the talent doesn't match up.

My my, are we already going there?

FSU came out like it was a must win game for them, which it was. We never matched their intensity. Their defense was suffocating, especially on our ball handlers. Yes, I wish we had looked inside a few times, but I saw our bigs trying to post up and not providing very good targets for the catch. FSU is an elite defensive team and it really showed tonight keeping us well below our season average.

Still, playing ugly, we were right there at the end. We never took a lead after our comeback which was significant, and they hit a lot of big shots when we would draw even. Kitchen killed us, and Singleton's 3 when we cut it to 2 late was a back breaker. We also missed a few free throws down the stretch that would have kept more game pressure on them, and they nailed every big FT down the stretch.

It was their night.

[TheRob8801]

My my, are we already going there?

You never heard me doubt K's ability or even begin to scoff at his success, but it's almost not even debatable that K can't out-coach a bad match-up without a miracle performance

FSU came out like it was a must win game for them, which it was. We never matched their intensity. Their defense was suffocating, especially on our ball handlers. Yes, I wish we had looked inside a few times, but I saw our bigs trying to post up and not providing very good targets for the catch. FSU is an elite defensive team and it really showed tonight keeping us well below our season average.

Still, playing ugly, we were right there at the end. We never took a lead after our comeback which was significant, and they hit a lot of big shots when we would draw even. Kitchen killed us, and Singleton's 3 when we cut it to 2 late was a back breaker. We also missed a few free throws down the stretch that would have kept more game pressure on them, and they nailed every big FT down the stretch.

It was their night.

In the end, it WAS their night, but it wasn't some strange anomaly. It was to be expected that there would be struggles IF things fall the way they typically due during a Duke loss; poor night shooting 3's and a career performance from an opponent.

[taiw93]

I think the biggest negative change since losing Kyrie has been lack of ball movement. Nolan is a great scorer and a fantastic player, but he really does not distribute the ball well at all. Without Kyrie, we are over-reliant on dribbling and ball screens and not reliant enough on passing (and I don't mean swinging the ball around the perimeter aimlessly). We need to start making that extra pass!

That said, this was just an off game. We are still a very good team, though clearly not the best team in the country. IMO, that honor belongs to either Kansas or Ohio State.

[jv001]

I think the biggest negative change since losing Kyrie has been lack of ball movement. Nolan is a great scorer and a fantastic player, but he really does not distribute the ball well at all. Without Kyrie, we are over-reliant on dribbling and ball screens and not reliant enough on passing (and I don't mean swinging the ball around the perimeter aimlessly). We need to start making that extra pass!

That said, this was just an off game. We are still a very good team, though clearly not the best team in the country. IMO, that honor belongs to either Kansas or Ohio State.

That Nolan does dribble the ball way too much in setting up the offense. Waste of time to get into our offense. When this happens, sometimes we end up taking a forced shot to beat the shot clock. This is where we could use another ball handler that can penetrate. Maryland and FSU stopped Nolan's penetration and with no post offense, we had trouble setting up an efficient offense. Too many turnovers and too many 3's. But I have confidence Coach K will work on our offense. 24 points in the first half set the stage for this upset. But I'm glad we don't have to rush the court like every team that beats us. We'll be back. Go Duke!

[GLTBD]

I think the biggest negative change since losing Kyrie has been lack of ball movement. Nolan is a great scorer and a fantastic player, but he really does not distribute the ball well at all. Without Kyrie, we are over-reliant on dribbling and ball screens and not reliant enough on passing (and I don't mean swinging the ball around the perimeter aimlessly). We need to start making that extra pass!

That said, this was just an off game. We are still a very good team, though clearly not the best team in the country. IMO, that honor belongs to either Kansas or Ohio State.

and they too will lose a few games.

[Richard Berg]

Wondering why Miles didn't get back in the game after the start -- or did he, and I just missed him?

Me too. As their big men manhandled us and Mason kept making mental errors (loose ball fouls, getting torched defensively), I kept yelling at Dickie V to shutup about [misc anecdote] and tell me what the heck happened to MP1. Miles seemed a much better choice for his physical strength and relative lack of freshman mistakes. Came here specifically to find out...but sounds like DBR doesn't know either. Must've ruffled some feathers in practice.

PS: I don't think he started. IIRC it was Kyle-Nolan-Dre-Seth-Kelly.

[wtm001]

Yahoo Sports updated the shooting percentage to 31%, I apologize.

[tbyers11]

Me too. As their big men manhandled us, I kept yelling at Dickie V to shutup about [misc anecdote] and tell me what the heck happened to MP1. Came here specifically to find out...but sounds like DBR doesn't know either. Must've ruffled some feathers in practice.

PS: I don't think he started. IIRC it was Kyle-Nolan-Dre-Seth-Kelly.

Miles did start. Dre did not

[BigZ]

The only reason we are all really depressed here is b/c some of us believed the team would go undefeated. We can still win the title. Remember this team right now is better than the team we had last year that won the title.

Look at the good side, Duke played awful and still almost won a road ACC game. I know the conference is down but if you can play that crappy and still almost win you have a lot of talent and are a very good team. I think the club will rebound. I wouldn't want to be UVA right now.

[Son of Mojo]

Wow, there's a lot of prospective Chicken Little's who've popped up on here....one loss is NOT the end of this season. Geez. We were outplayed, had several shots just miss, and they had some drop. Anything that happened on the rim, rest assured, was dropping for them and missing for us. That's part of the game. We need the Plumlees and Ryan to step up and give some kind of post presence on BOTH ends of the floor and need to make smarter decisions with the ball. As well as Kyle played in the 2nd half, that last 30 foot three he took was truly unnecessary to take. To paraphrase what was said earlier, I'd hate to be Virginia Saturday. NEXT.

[rsvman]

Wow, there's a lot of prospective Chicken Little's who've popped up on here....one loss is NOT the end of this season. Geez. We were outplayed, had several shots just miss, and they had some drop. Anything that happened on the rim, rest assured, was dropping for them and missing for us. That's part of the game. We need the Plumlees and Ryan to step up and give some kind of post presence on BOTH ends of the floor and need to make smarter decisions with the ball. As well as Kyle played in the 2nd half, that last 30 foot three he took was truly unnecessary to take. To paraphrase what was said earlier, I'd hate to be Virginia Saturday. NEXT.

Spot on.

I can think, off the top of my head, of at least three 3-pointers that rattled around or went halfway down and then back out from Curry/Dawkins, and a point-blank put-back by Mason that rattled off; on the flip side there was that ridiculous 3-pointer by Kitchen that flew 8 feet up off the rim but somehow managed to fall back through and the last bucket they made before halftime, in which the guy just hit the ball in a random direction and it found its way through the hoop.

A couple of those go the other way and we win the game.


We got out-hustled a lot, though. They got a ton of loose balls.

Agree that Nolan, once he drives, almost always looks to shoot, but he needs to look for the pass as well. On one play in particular, Kyle would have had an uncontested layup but Smith opted for the circus shot while being heavily defended. His decision-making will improve.

I think this team will still win a lot of games and has the potential to do very well in the NCAAT.

[moonpie23]

Remember this team right now is better than the team we had last year that won the title.

IX-NAY - last year we had THREE very reliable scorers...this year, only two. Last year we had a STRONG rebounding and blocking presence inside, this year it's iffy...

this team is a different team. Without KI, we're not as good (imho)

Look at the good side, Duke played awful and still almost won a road ACC game.

"almost winning" is not a good thing...

[jipops]

That said, this was just an off game. We are still a very good team, though clearly not the best team in the country. IMO, that honor belongs to either Kansas or Ohio State.

I don't agree that this was just an off game. Don't minimize what FSU accomplished here. They are one of the top defensive teams in the nation along with Maryland. It isn't coincidence that our recent offensive struggles have coincided with playing those two teams.

They shredded us because they were quicker and far more powerful around the basket. Singleton and Kitchen were matchup problems for us.

[Bluedog]

Did we play poorly tonight? Yes. Does that mean the season is over and we have no chance of doing well in the postseason? No. We shot 31% for the game, turned it over 15 times, and still only lost by 5 when FSU was shooting far better than they have in the past. Obviously, they played good D, but we also missed some open shots. What I am concerned about is the fact they outhustled us for loose balls and rebounds. Nolan made some odd decisions which are uncharacteristic, almost trying to force stuff. Kitchen had a great game. It was our first true road game in a hostile environment. Just the perfect storm.

In basketball, sometimes the ball bounces your way, and sometimes it doesn't (both literally and figuratively). They had some lucky bounces including that killer 3 that went way up, and it seems like we missed 3 point blank layups.

I'm not worried about our poor shooting, but the lack of post-play on the offensive and defensive end and get outhustled for loose balls is a bit concerning. However, we had losses like that last year vs. Georgetown and NC St. We looked really pathetic against Georgetown, yet we righted the ship. We have the chance to do that again this season, and if Kyrie comes back, we'll take it up another notch.

Certainly disappointing game. Shouldn't really lose to a team that lost to one of the worst BCS teams in the nation in Auburn. But give them credit; they outplayed us, played good D, and knocked down some tough shots. It seems like K didn't like the way Miles was playing at all - he benched him for quite some time and we definitely need to improve our post play. But the sky isn't falling.