Amaker at Harvard

[Udaman]

So heartbreaking. For the life of me, I can't see why Harvard, with an RPI below 40 won't get an at large bid...but they won't. Their players must be devastated. They deserve to play in the NCAA tournament. So does Princeton.

[loran16]

So heartbreaking. For the life of me, I can't see why Harvard, with an RPI below 40 won't get an at large bid...but they won't. Their players must be devastated. They deserve to play in the NCAA tournament. So does Princeton.

Eh, In all honesty....It's borderline. RPI is a terrible measure, and Pomeroy has Harvard 77, Princeton 89. Neither would get in without the auto bid.

The loss is heartbreaking. But Harvard has ZERO seniors on its team this year and has actual good recruits coming in. They will be BIG favorites next year.

[taiw93]

What an amazing game. I was rooting for Harvard, but I certainly am happy for Princeton - what a shot by Davis. Hope Harvard gets an at-large bid. They deserve it.

[Atlanta Duke]

Bill Simmons tweet on the Harvard loss

Stomach punch buzzer-beater loss for Harvard. They can't even do the "That's all right, that's OK, you're gonna work for us some day" chant

http://twitter.com/sportsguy33

[hurleyfor3]

That guy in the orange spandex bodysuit during the court storming... was that our own Orange&BlackSheep?

Losing sucked, but seeing a Princeton fan dressed that way kind of mitigated it.

[SCMatt33]

Eh, In all honesty....It's borderline. RPI is a terrible measure, and Pomeroy has Harvard 77, Princeton 89. Neither would get in without the auto bid.

The loss is heartbreaking. But Harvard has ZERO seniors on its team this year and has actual good recruits coming in. They will be BIG favorites next year.

I don't even think it's borderline. Princeton is the only top 50 team that they beat, and they have now lost to them twice. They have as many losses outside the top 150 as they do wins inside the top 50 (1 apiece). Their record against the top 100 is just 3-4. Only 5 of their wins have come against the top 150. There is just nothing to their resume except beating a bunch of bad (not even mediocre) teams. Unfortunately for them, they needed both BC and Colorado (their other top 100 wins) to look really impressive to even get them in the discussion. It also doesn't help that they didn't even have to leave Boston to get either win. Their SOS is just 155 and their non-conference SOS is just 109. Other than their RPI, I don't see one bit of evidence to support them.

Also totally agree that they need to just need to bide their time.

[Orange&BlackSheep]

That guy in the orange spandex bodysuit during the court storming... was that our own Orange&BlackSheep?

Losing sucked, but seeing a Princeton fan dressed that way kind of mitigated it.

Words cannot express the absolute joy of that shot. And doing it against the Carolina of the North ... well ... it will be hard to top this any time soon.

My days of orange spandex wearing are indeed long since past -- what would have been a bad look at 20 would only get worse with age.

Friends, as someone who lived and died with the 1986 Duke team, I must inform you that there was nothing heartbreaking about this. Unless of course you spend a lot of time feeling bad for Mashburn, Pelfrey, Pitino & Co for being on the wrong end of The Shot.

This weekend would be perfect if the Carolina of the South lost tomorrow.

Hiiip Hiiip
Tiger Tiger Tiger Sis Sis Sis Boom Boom Boom Bah
Doug Davis! Doug Davis! Doug Davis!

[COYS]

Words cannot express the absolute joy of that shot. And doing it against the Carolina of the North ... well ... it will be hard to top this any time soon.

My days of orange spandex wearing are indeed long since past -- what would have been a bad look at 20 would only get worse with age.

Friends, as someone who lived and died with the 1986 Duke team, I must inform you that there was nothing heartbreaking about this. Unless of course you spend a lot of time feeling bad for Mashburn, Pelfrey, Pitino & Co for being on the wrong end of The Shot.

This weekend would be perfect if the Carolina of the South lost tomorrow.

Hiiip Hiiip
Tiger Tiger Tiger Sis Sis Sis Boom Boom Boom Bah
Doug Davis! Doug Davis! Doug Davis!

Second this! My wife and I screamed and yelled and even got my sister on the phone to sing Old Nassau! What an exciting game. I'm glad that this board can now return to its regularly scheduled programming so that O&B Sheep and I don't feel like we've wandered onto IC every time Harvard is mentioned =).

[PumpkinFunk]

Harvard has a stronger at-large profile than you'd think. As of tonight (which is higher than tomorrow, obviously) their RPI is 32. Only 6 teams with an RPI of 32 or higher have missed the tourney. Their losses: Yale (bad), UConn, George Mason, Michigan, and Princeton (twice). They beat fellow bubble-dwellers BC and Colorado. Not a lot of great wins, but not many bad losses either. The case is far, far better than you would think. They could get in over Bama or VT, honestly.

[Orange&BlackSheep]

Second this! My wife and I screamed and yelled and even got my sister on the phone to sing Old Nassau! What an exciting game. I'm glad that this board can now return to its regularly scheduled programming so that O&B Sheep and I don't feel like we've wandered onto IC every time Harvard is mentioned =).

Seriously ... I am glad I have someone else who feels this way too. It is so strange to come to a site filled with people usually rooting with you, only to find them rooting against you.

I repeat that Tommy A can't find another job fast enough for my liking. Come on ADs ... you have a GREAT coach here. Scoop him up while you can!

[Kedsy]

Their SOS is just 155 and their non-conference SOS is just 109. Other than their RPI, I don't see one bit of evidence to support them.

While I think the RPI is a horrendous metric, it's the primary metric used by the committee. So, here's the thing -- SOS is the major component of the RPI (50%, if I'm not mistaken). If you're already relying on the RPI, why does the SOS matter? Isn't that like double counting?

[-bdbd]

Second this! My wife and I screamed and yelled and even got my sister on the phone to sing Old Nassau! What an exciting game. I'm glad that this board can now return to its regularly scheduled programming so that O&B Sheep and I don't feel like we've wandered onto IC every time Harvard is mentioned =).

Naw, the conversation on this board is waaaay too rational to ever be mistaken for IC!

I do feel sorry for Tommy, as he and his players looked just totally demolished after the heartbreaker loss. My sense was that HE expected this means no NCAAT. Though they could really do something in the NIT.

Question: does this go down as a conference champ "tie," with Princeton getting the NCAAT bid, or does it just hit the books as a Princeton championship? That might be some consolation for the Harvard team if they get the co-championship...first ever.

[juise]

Question: does this go down as a conference champ "tie," with Princeton getting the NCAAT bid, or does it just hit the books as a Princeton championship? That might be some consolation for the Harvard team if they get the co-championship...first ever.

It counts as a tie and yes, it's a first.

[Orange&BlackSheep]

The banner they will raise will say 2011 Ivy League Men's Basketball Co-Champions.

[sagegrouse]

Harvard has a stronger at-large profile than you'd think. As of tonight (which is higher than tomorrow, obviously) their RPI is 32. Only 6 teams with an RPI of 32 or higher have missed the tourney. Their losses: Yale (bad), UConn, George Mason, Michigan, and Princeton (twice). They beat fellow bubble-dwellers BC and Colorado. Not a lot of great wins, but not many bad losses either. The case is far, far better than you would think. They could get in over Bama or VT, honestly.

Harvard, while disappointed with missing the Big Dance, would probably be pleased to play in the NIT.

And, if the Crimson were to make it as far as Madison Square Garden, there'd be big tickets sales on Wall Street to the Harvard MBAs and lawyers. Moreover, Tommy could thumb his nose in person at the NY Times idiots who trashed him inaccurately and unfairly in the past. Gee, we haven't heard much of those stories recently, have we? I guess winning cures a lot of things, especially bad press.

sagegrouse

[loran16]

I don't even think it's borderline. Princeton is the only top 50 team that they beat, and they have now lost to them twice. They have as many losses outside the top 150 as they do wins inside the top 50 (1 apiece). Their record against the top 100 is just 3-4. Only 5 of their wins have come against the top 150. There is just nothing to their resume except beating a bunch of bad (not even mediocre) teams. Unfortunately for them, they needed both BC and Colorado (their other top 100 wins) to look really impressive to even get them in the discussion. It also doesn't help that they didn't even have to leave Boston to get either win. Their SOS is just 155 and their non-conference SOS is just 109. Other than their RPI, I don't see one bit of evidence to support them.

Also totally agree that they need to just need to bide their time.

Oh I'm with you. But I see Lunardi has them in his next 4 out (so teams 73-76), which is close enough to be "borderline."

[Orange&BlackSheep]

Harvard, while disappointed with missing the Big Dance, would probably be pleased to play in the NIT.

And, if the Crimson were to make it as far as Madison Square Garden, there'd be big tickets sales on Wall Street to the Harvard MBAs and lawyers. Moreover, Tommy could thumb his nose in person at the NY Times idiots who trashed him inaccurately and unfairly in the past. Gee, we haven't heard much of those stories recently, have we? I guess winning cures a lot of things, especially bad press.

sagegrouse

All I have to say is that Harvard beat BC @ BC and BC basically did nothing of note this year to deserve a spot in the tournament over them. DO I think that Harvard would have finished as well as BC in the ACC? No, probably not. But I think they certainly are better than Wake and would have competitive games with everyone in the league except Duke and Carolina. Maryland's inside game would have been a problem for them too. With some lucky breaks I think they could have approached .500 in the ACC.

[COYS]

All I have to say is that Harvard beat BC @ BC and BC basically did nothing of note this year to deserve a spot in the tournament over them. DO I think that Harvard would have finished as well as BC in the ACC? No, probably not. But I think they certainly are better than Wake and would have competitive games with everyone in the league except Duke and Carolina. Maryland's inside game would have been a problem for them too. With some lucky breaks I think they could have approached .500 in the ACC.

And I would just like to emphasize to everyone that this is a Princeton fan heaping huge amounts of praise on Harvard . . . which is saying something!

I agree with O&B Sheep here, though. Harvard has a great team and had the fortunate (for me) misfortune of having to play a very good Princeton team three times. There is no reason in my mind that BC should make it in over Harvard, as they both have similar profiles with Harvard owning the tie-breaker with a win at BC. Unfortunately, they probably will be in the NIT, but I think they have a good chance to surprise some people and make a deep run. Princeton and Harvard both project to be pretty good in the coming years. If they both can pull off some early season upsets of big-six schools in the same year, a double-bid season from the Ivy League may not be too far away.

[Orange&BlackSheep]

We draw AshleyJuddU.

We do not really run the traditional Princeton offense so much any more but I am hoping we dust if off to try to slow down KY.

After the "I can rest happily for the next year" victory against UNC Cambridge, I am not sure I am even allowed to wish for a victory over Detestable U. But I would pay a lot of money to listen to "Coach" Cal describe how his players lack of execution of his gameplan led to the unlikeliest of defeats.

[COYS]

We draw AshleyJuddU.

We do not really run the traditional Princeton offense so much any more but I am hoping we dust if off to try to slow down KY.

After the "I can rest happily for the next year" victory against UNC Cambridge, I am not sure I am even allowed to wish for a victory over Detestable U. But I would pay a lot of money to listen to "Coach" Cal describe how his players lack of execution of his gameplan led to the unlikeliest of defeats.

I agree with the final part. Princeton beating UK is even better than Duke beating UK because of the humiliation factor for Cal and the UK fanbase. It's a longshot, but hopefully we'll be able to frustrate the young Wildcats into a poor performance and come away with an unlikely win.