The Kyrie Irving Toe Vigil

[KyDevilinIL]

You can try, but God knows how you can try to break down a 14 character statement.

I was being sarcastic, but then Irving said it had nothing to do with his toe, so the joke/point/discussion/whatever instantly became moot. This Twitter stuff is weird.

[Kedsy]

And lets say that he doesn't come back this year, essentially most NBA owners will be looking to get him at a "bargain" because of a potential reoccuring injury.

I'm pretty sure NBA rookie salaries are based on draft position, and if so your speculation is incorrect. It's unlikely Kyrie would slip past the top five in the draft no matter what, and thus there would be no "bargain" to be had.

[BD80]

May we now begin breaking down Kyrie's new "Turn the page..." tweet?

Awesome Bob Seger song. Good to see the Duke players having a solid foundation in classical music.

[superdave]

Awesome Bob Seger song. Good to see the Duke players having a solid foundation in classical music.

Wait, I thought that was a Metallica song.

Super "Kidding..." Dave

[BD80]

I agree with this, and I think another thing that makes it impossible to predict is the meaning of the term "100%." ...

A few years ago I had a badly sprained ankle (and, yes, I know this doesn't at all compare to Kyrie's injury). It took almost eight weeks before I could get back on the basketball court, but either physically or mentally I wasn't able to run and cut without feeling or thinking about the injury for another four weeks, and I wouldn't say I was "100%" for another four weeks after that. ...

Only a freakin' lawyer could argue about the meaning of 100% ...

How long after the ankle injury was it until you could dunk?

I think it is important to remember that Kyrie was playing with this injury. There will be rehab - with which our staff has a PROVEN track record - but I don't think there will be tentativity.

[superdave]

kyrieirving Kyrie Irving
Lol once again that has nothing to do with my toe...


Super "Nothing to read into turning the page" Dave

[Kedsy]

How long after the ankle injury was it until you could dunk?

Alas, still waiting for that.

[BD80]

Alas, still waiting for that.

Keep pushing in rehab!

[dukefan75]

so now a week later, Vitale has changed his tune:

Dick, in your opinion, will we see Kyrie Irving again in 2011?

Dick Vitale (11:17 AM)

I am not a doctor and I can only base it on things I have heard. I would doubt it. We are talking about a guy rated in the top five for the draft. Duke is certainly a different team without him. With him, Singler and Smith they would have been almost unbeatable. Duke still has a shot but it will not be easy.

Perhaps this goes along with the concept that everything has changed from statements from coach k, but what is clear is that there has been a clear sentiment change on the issue in the last several days

[jtelander]

Only a freakin' lawyer could argue about the meaning of 100% ...

How long after the ankle injury was it until you could dunk?

I think it is important to remember that Kyrie was playing with this injury. There will be rehab - with which our staff has a PROVEN track record - but I don't think there will be tentativity.

From a market value perspective, isn't it better that KI not play again this year than to come back and not be as good as he was prior to the injury?

The very worst scenario would be for him to re-injure the toe. It seems to me that his best interest is to take plenty of time to ensure that the he is fully re-habbed and that the toe is as healed as it will ever be.

[Mike Corey]

what is clear is that there has been a clear sentiment change publicly on the issue in the last several days

I added a word there for specificity's sake.

[buddy]

This injury is complicated enough that the medical folks cannot predict a definite path to recovery. As such, it is appropriate to consider Kyrie's return as a "pipedream" until his progress in rehab indicates otherwise. The team cannot afford to think that Kyrie's return is certain, because that will breed bad habits that will impede their development. As K has said many times in other circumstances (early departures, injuries, etc.) our team is the players on the court. And that team does not include Kyrie, and will not until he dons a uniform. I certainly hope he comes back this year, but am concerned that if he should come back too late, it actually could be detrimental, in terms of having to reconstitute the team once again. It is a "pipedream" to assume that should Kyrie return, everything will be as it was before his injury. Players have grown into new roles, have learned to play without him. His return, should it occur, will not be seamless. We need to value what we have, and appreciate the step forward that occurred last night.

[Vincetaylor]

This injury is complicated enough that the medical folks cannot predict a definite path to recovery. As such, it is appropriate to consider Kyrie's return as a "pipedream" until his progress in rehab indicates otherwise. The team cannot afford to think that Kyrie's return is certain, because that will breed bad habits that will impede their development. As K has said many times in other circumstances (early departures, injuries, etc.) our team is the players on the court. And that team does not include Kyrie, and will not until he dons a uniform. I certainly hope he comes back this year, but am concerned that if he should come back too late, it actually could be detrimental, in terms of having to reconstitute the team once again. It is a "pipedream" to assume that should Kyrie return, everything will be as it was before his injury. Players have grown into new roles, have learned to play without him. His return, should it occur, will not be seamless. We need to value what we have, and appreciate the step forward that occurred last night.

I'm tired of the term "pipedream". Transformers 3 winning an Oscar for Best Picture is a "pipedream". Kyrie's situation is not.

[Channing]

This injury is complicated enough that the medical folks cannot predict a definite path to recovery. As such, it is appropriate to consider Kyrie's return as a "pipedream" until his progress in rehab indicates otherwise. The team cannot afford to think that Kyrie's return is certain, because that will breed bad habits that will impede their development. As K has said many times in other circumstances (early departures, injuries, etc.) our team is the players on the court. And that team does not include Kyrie, and will not until he dons a uniform. I certainly hope he comes back this year, but am concerned that if he should come back too late, it actually could be detrimental, in terms of having to reconstitute the team once again. It is a "pipedream" to assume that should Kyrie return, everything will be as it was before his injury. Players have grown into new roles, have learned to play without him. His return, should it occur, will not be seamless. We need to value what we have, and appreciate the step forward that occurred last night.

I am sure the team is proceeding as if Kyrie won't return. However, I, as a fan, am not limited by the same constraints as the team. Further, before Kyrie went down, Duke struggled with MSU, KSU, and Butler - all of whom have looked very pedestrian at times this year (like Jay Bilas said - Duke's level of play pre-Toe injury has taken on a mythical status). I, for one, refuse to believe that bringing what appears to be a team oriented superstar into the fold will be a net negative at any point.

[Starter]

From a market value perspective, isn't it better that KI not play again this year than to come back and not be as good as he was prior to the injury?

I don't think so. Everyone knows how good he can be fully healthy.

[MCFinARL]

While at first I was distraught at KIs injury, I have come to view his injury in a different light. He is providing invaluable instruction to our less experienced players, as mentioned in a previous post, he can calm them down, reassure them, or speak to them about their playing in a serious tone. But more importantly I see a great player who has fully embraced the program and what it stands for. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that he might just come back next year, after all he is clearly having fun and thats just on the sidelines, not even the game. And I'm sure he knows how much he is worth and that value only goes up each year that he plays. And lets say that he doesn't come back this year, essentially most NBA owners will be looking to get him at a "bargain" because of a potential reoccuring injury. He has good reason to come back next year, but even with the "bargain" deal he still has a couple of million reasons to not come back. But I don't know, it seems to me that if he was soley interested in an NBA career he would have gone to Kentucky. I'm just thrilled that even though he's not on the court, he is still adding value to our team and at the end of the day thats really all you can ask of a player in college, to just make the team they are on better.

I agree with you that Kyrie seems to be actively involved and enthusiastic despite his injury, and that is great to see. And I also agree it's not a foregone conclusion that he will leave school after this season, even if the odds are that he will. He is not in a desperate financial situation, and there are some appealing reasons for him to stay in school as well as reasons to leave. But I don't think it's clear that his value will only go up every year he plays. In addition to the possible risk of re-injury, or of sustaining a completely different injury, there is the irritating habit of NBA executives to draft on "upside"--so that a less-developed, less-experienced player who might get better is drafted ahead of a seasoned player who is already "better" but might not have as much room to improve. From that perspective,the sky might be the limit on a Kyrie with only 8 post-high school games, where a Kyrie with a whole season under his belt might seem even more promising, or might not.

Either way, I agree with you that he has added value to the team even if he never plays another game in a Duke uniform, and I hope whatever choice he makes turns out for the best for him.

[epoulsen]

I'm pretty sure NBA rookie salaries are based on draft position, and if so your speculation is incorrect. It's unlikely Kyrie would slip past the top five in the draft no matter what, and thus there would be no "bargain" to be had.

Perhaps I mispoke, as I am by no means an NBA expert, but I find it hard to believe that this injury would play no part what so ever in the contract if he had not played a game since the injury. I see your reasoning though, as a lottery pick is a lottery pick regardless of physical condition and if everyone was so concerned over his toe then they would wait for a later round or pick to draft him and then pay him accordingly.

[epoulsen]

But I don't think it's clear that his value will only go up every year he plays. In addition to the possible risk of re-injury, or of sustaining a completely different injury, there is the irritating habit of NBA executives to draft on "upside"--so that a less-developed, less-experienced player who might get better is drafted ahead of a seasoned player who is already "better" but might not have as much room to improve. From that perspective,the sky might be the limit on a Kyrie with only 8 post-high school games, where a Kyrie with a whole season under his belt might seem even more promising, or might not.

I didn't even consider that, great point.

[Channing]

I agree with you that Kyrie seems to be actively involved and enthusiastic despite his injury, and that is great to see. And I also agree it's not a foregone conclusion that he will leave school after this season, even if the odds are that he will. He is not in a desperate financial situation, and there are some appealing reasons for him to stay in school as well as reasons to leave. But I don't think it's clear that his value will only go up every year he plays. In addition to the possible risk of re-injury, or of sustaining a completely different injury, there is the irritating habit of NBA executives to draft on "upside"--so that a less-developed, less-experienced player who might get better is drafted ahead of a seasoned player who is already "better" but might not have as much room to improve. From that perspective,the sky might be the limit on a Kyrie with only 8 post-high school games, where a Kyrie with a whole season under his belt might seem even more promising, or might not.

Either way, I agree with you that he has added value to the team even if he never plays another game in a Duke uniform, and I hope whatever choice he makes turns out for the best for him.

Terrence Morris and Josh McRoberts agree...

[ncexnyc]

I am sure the team is proceeding as if Kyrie won't return. However, I, as a fan, am not limited by the same constraints as the team. Further, before Kyrie went down, Duke struggled with MSU, KSU, and Butler - all of whom have looked very pedestrian at times this year (like Jay Bilas said - Duke's level of play pre-Toe injury has taken on a mythical status). I, for one, refuse to believe that bringing what appears to be a team oriented superstar into the fold will be a net negative at any point.

I have to disagree with you on this. Life without Kyrie has had it's bumps and bruises. I'm not sure you could find anyone on the board who would honestly say the transition has been a smooth one. Everyone is adjusting to a new role and as they get more comfortable with these new roles they will fall into a set routine. If Kyrie were to return very late in the season or worse at the start of tournament play, I could definitely envision scenarios where he would indeed have a negative effect on the team, because the roles that had been established during his absence were no longer valid.

Now if he gets back in time for everyone to have a period of readjustment, then I believe he would be a definite positive asset to the team.