Top 5 Three Point Shooters in Duke History?

[Deshawnj]

My list would be a tough one. In the time they were at Duke, some a year some three years, who would I want to take a 3 to win a game. I would say.

1. JJ Redick
2. Trajan Langdon
3. Mike Dunleavy
4. Jon Scheyer
5. Jason Williams

6. Andre Dawkins

[Orange&BlackSheep]

My list would be a tough one. In the time they were at Duke, some a year some three years, who would I want to take a 3 to win a game. I would say.

1. JJ Redick
2. Trajan Langdon
3. Mike Dunleavy
4. Jon Scheyer
5. Jason Williams

6. Andre Dawkins

Laettner has to move up to #1, don't you think? I mean ... one shot ... with it all on the line ... hmm ... might he be able to knock it down ...

[[And yes, I know neither shot against uCONn or KY was a three ...]]

[basket1544]

My list would be a tough one. In the time they were at Duke, some a year some three years, who would I want to take a 3 to win a game. I would say.

1. JJ Redick
2. Trajan Langdon
3. Mike Dunleavy
4. Jon Scheyer
5. Jason Williams

6. Andre Dawkins

Whole new thread... who do you want shooting the ball with the game on the line... and the obvious answer is Christian. It doesn't matter if it is a shot from the free throw line or from the three point line or the half court line.
So who's the second guy? I have a feeling it is going to be some of the players I never got to see play. Groat? Mullins? Heyman? My vote for second may be Jason Williams, but then again I just finished watching the Maryland Duke Final Four game today.

[vick]

I agree with this. I don't buy the argument of "well, a lot of their shots were taken from behind where the three-point line would be." Since that shot was only worth two points at the time, defenses had no added incentive to guard that shot any harder. You'd have to assume that they would be defended differently if the line existed.

Now, if you're talking about how graceful their form was or what a thing of beauty it was to watch them release the ball, then okay, but any statistical comparison is inherently flawed.

For what it's worth, Verga shot 29.6% on threes in the ABA versus Redick's 38.4% for his career (I don't think the ABA line was longer than the current NBA one, although I haven't actually been able to find ABA court dimensions). Of course, players can get better or worse in the pros for all sorts of reasons, so that's definitely not conclusive, but it's certainly intriguing.

I hesitate to wade into this discussion, partly because I am too young to have seen Verga and Armstrong, partly because it's an argument that simply cannot be proven either way, but I have trouble reconciling a belief that players in the pre-3 era would have been as accurate as today's players with my understanding of how players practice and improve. To me, it seems clear that players who practice long distance shooting (in this case, beyond 20 feet) become better. It seems equally clear that great players would tend to practice shots that are most beneficial in games.

I could be wrong, but I don't see why players before the three point shot would have practiced from that range at the same rate as current players, and therefore I think agree that it's presumptuous to think that those players would roll right into the three point era as the top shooters (the flip side of this argument would be that players today are worse than Verga, Armstrong, etc. at medium-range jumpers--the often-lamented decline of the "midrange game"--for exactly the same reasons, namely, that rule changes have disincentivized this shot, and players quite rationally do not practice it as much. This also seems plausible to me).

[Orange&BlackSheep]

For what it's worth, Verga shot 29.6% on threes in the ABA versus Redick's 38.4% for his career (I don't think the ABA line was longer than the current NBA one, although I haven't actually been able to find ABA court dimensions). Of course, players can get better or worse in the pros for all sorts of reasons, so that's definitely not conclusive, but it's certainly intriguing.

I hesitate to wade into this discussion, partly because I am too young to have seen Verga and Armstrong, partly because it's an argument that simply cannot be proven either way, but I have trouble reconciling a belief that players in the pre-3 era would have been as accurate as today's players with my understanding of how players practice and improve. To me, it seems clear that players who practice long distance shooting (in this case, beyond 20 feet) become better. It seems equally clear that great players would tend to practice shots that are most beneficial in games.

I could be wrong, but I don't see why players before the three point shot would have practiced from that range at the same rate as current players, and therefore I think agree that it's presumptuous to think that those players would roll right into the three point era as the top shooters (the flip side of this argument would be that players today are worse than Verga, Armstrong, etc. at medium-range jumpers--the often-lamented decline of the "midrange game"--for exactly the same reasons, namely, that rule changes have disincentivized this shot, and players quite rationally do not practice it as much. This also seems plausible to me).

That one's whole thinking and strategy was working to get a shot as close in as you could. While that is still true to a degree, clearly getting and knocking down open threes makes one's effective FG % quite good and many teams and coaches scheme for this very thing. I would imagine that teams would not have worked very hard to stop a 22-footer in 1966 since it was perceived that as a defense you had just forced the opponent in taking a much lower % shot than if they had worked the ball for a 15-footer.

[Deshawnj]

Quote Originally Posted by Deshawnj View Post
My list would be a tough one. In the time they were at Duke, some a year some three years, who would I want to take a 3 to win a game. I would say.

1. JJ Redick
2. Trajan Langdon
3. Mike Dunleavy
4. Jon Scheyer
5. Jason Williams

6. Andre Dawkins
Whole new thread... who do you want shooting the ball with the game on the line... and the obvious answer is Christian. It doesn't matter if it is a shot from the free throw line or from the three point line or the half court line.
So who's the second guy? I have a feeling it is going to be some of the players I never got to see play. Groat? Mullins? Heyman? My vote for second may be Jason Williams, but then again I just finished watching the Maryland Duke Final Four game today.

I think this ends up with a deeper argument for players. Does Christian make shot yes. No doubt. In my mind I look at the game of today everyone jacks up threes constantly. The game has changed big time since 1992. If it was a best player at shooting 3's then it would just be given to the player with the best % from three. Best shooter takes into account many variables. I took it as if I were playing Butler again in the championship down 3 and have every Duke player on my roster I would love for Christian to take the shot, but I draw the play for Redick. Then again my favorite Duke moment is when he lit up BC in the 06 ACC tourney.

[phaedrus]

While these two players probably won't make many top-5 lists, I thought their notable Duke three-point shooting achievements at least warranted a mention on this thread.

First, of course, is Taylor King, who undoubtedly* is the all-time Duke leader in three-point attempts per minute played.

And then there was Nick Horvath, the best summer-league three-point bomber that anyone has ever laid eyes on. Surely that counts for something.

*There is actually a great deal of doubt about this claim, since I'm really just making it up. However, I did learn that J.J. Redick took 1126 three-pointers in 4732 minutes of career action, for an average of less than one three-point attempt every four minutes. Taylor played 330 career minutes and had just enough time to launch 114 three-bombs, for an average a hair under one every two minutes. So there you have it - Taylor King managed to hurl up triples over twice as fast as the ACC's most prolific three-pointer shooter of all time. Most impressive.

[rtnorthrup]

Don't know where he would fit into this discussion (Certainly not top 5), but Billy McCaffrey had one of the sweetest three point strokes I have seen outside of JJ.

I remember one announcer saying the following "Billy would rather shoot with a hand in his face, than eat when he is hungry."

[jipops]

1. JJ
2. JJ
3. JJ
4. JJ
5. Trajan

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

While these two players probably won't make many top-5 lists, I thought their notable Duke three-point shooting achievements at least warranted a mention on this thread.

Good point about TKO. One other Devil that hasn't been mentioned is Will Avery. I can't find it anywhere, but I distinctly remember him nailing at least eight 3's in a game to tie the then record for most threes in a game. I imagine that Trajan was the other record holder. Can anyone confirm that?

Avery had a pretty sick shot in 1999.

EDIT: OKay, found it... http://dukechronicle.com/node/116058

[94duke]

from Duke Basketball Media Guide

Single Season
3-Point Field Goals Made
Rk	Name 				vs. Opponent, 		Date 		3FG
1.	Shane Battier (Sr.) 		vs. Princeton, 		11/14/2000 	9
	J.J. Redick (Sr.) 		vs. Texas, 		12/10/2005 	9
3.	William Avery (So.) 		vs. Florida, 		12/9/1998 	8
	Jason Williams (So.) 		vs. Temple, 		12/2/2000 	8
	Jason Williams (Jr.) 		at Florida State, 	1/6/2002 	8
	Jason Williams (Jr.) 		vs. North Carolina, 	3/3/2002 	8
	J.J. Redick (Jr.) 		at Florida State, 	1/22/2005 	8
	J.J. Redick (Sr.) 		vs. Virginia, 		1/28/2006 	8
	Kyle Singler (Jr.) 		vs. Georgia Tech, 	2/4/2010 	8
10.	11x last, Jon Scheyer (Sr.) 	vs. Gardner-Webb, 	12/15/2009 	7

[pfrduke]

from Duke Basketball Media Guide

Single Season
3-Point Field Goals Made
Rk	Name 				vs. Opponent, 		Date 		3FG
1.	Shane Battier (Sr.) 		vs. Princeton, 		11/14/2000 	9
	J.J. Redick (Sr.) 		vs. Texas, 		12/10/2005 	9
3.	William Avery (So.) 		vs. Florida, 		12/9/1998 	8
	Jason Williams (So.) 		vs. Temple, 		12/2/2000 	8
	Jason Williams (Jr.) 		at Florida State, 	1/6/2002 	8
	Jason Williams (Jr.) 		vs. North Carolina, 	3/3/2002 	8
	J.J. Redick (Jr.) 		at Florida State, 	1/22/2005 	8
	J.J. Redick (Sr.) 		vs. Virginia, 		1/28/2006 	8
	Kyle Singler (Jr.) 		vs. Georgia Tech, 	2/4/2010 	8
        Andre Dawkins (So.)     vs. Bradley,                12/8/2010   8
11.	11x last, Jon Scheyer (Sr.) 	vs. Gardner-Webb, 	12/15/2009 	7

From next year's media guide (see bolded above)