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Thread: Miami/Cleveland

  1. #1
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    Miami/Cleveland

    i guess we there is a mod who is a big cleveland fan here as i posted rather hard-hitting slams against the cavs last night and both posts were removed...

    anyhoo, this morning i am the kinder, gentler moonpie and i thought i'd just post this..


    could last night's hate-fest awakened the heat? could they now understand how to play better?
    "Either we're going down, or they are....... Kirk out!"

  2. #2
    I'm not a Miami fan, but yes, I hope that they start playing better for my NBA watching's sake. Watching the Heat grind one out over the Wizards or Nets isn't especially interesting to me.

    BTW, I think this picture can sum up the rather stupid hatred of Lebron as any.


    I think everyone agrees that Lebron made a poor choice in how he announced his move to Miami, but he doesn't need to be vilified to the extent that he has for going to another team. It's a little ridiculous.
    "Something in my vicinity is Carolina blue and this offends me." - HPR

  3. #3
    I'm sure Lebron sees 1,000s of people like that coupled with how bad the team Cleveland built around him is now and is regretting his decision.
    Last edited by gewwang; 12-03-2010 at 12:49 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    I don't know about that. Miami has problems, but they will get better, especially when Miller and Haslem come back. Cleveland, on the other hand, had already peaked. It was clear to Lebron last year that the supporting cast he had was not good enough to get it done in the playoffs. That would not have changed any time soon in Cleveland. Going to Miami may not have been the right move, but staying in Cleveland may not have been either.

  5. #5
    I was sooo happy at the outcome of the game and how well Lebron played! I honestly hate Cleveland and its fan base (before Lebron left) and now I like them even less for the way they treat Lebron. Anyway yes I think the Heat will get their game together but this will not be their year. Next year and the next many after that I have high expectations for them.

    ps I like the way Lebron handled his free agency. He just should have told the Cavs organization he would not be returning rather than have them find out from The Decision.

  6. #6
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    "the decision" was a bad one.......jim grey's little brain-fart cost bron bron in style points....

    he'll make them up...


    now, let's see if the heat can keep up that attack against a GOOD team....


    should be fun
    "Either we're going down, or they are....... Kirk out!"

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke: A Dynasty View Post
    I honestly hate Cleveland and its fan base (before Lebron left) and now I like them even less for the way they treat Lebron.
    OK... I'll bite... why do you hate Cleveland and its fan base? Is this similar to your reasons for hating Harrison Barnes, or is there another reason that you have for hating 300,000 people?

    Just curious.
    WWJDD?

  8. #8
    "the decision" raised a bunch of money for the Boys and Girls Club of America, It also turned Lebron into the bad guy. The bad guys or teams get more viewers because people want to see them lose; Cowboys (nfl), Lakers/Celtics (nba), Duke (cbb), Yankees (bbl). Overall he gets more exposure and which im sure he wanted.

  9. #9
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    I agree that LeBron should have told the franchise he was not returning. The hour long show was too over the top. Cleveland fans should be grateful that LeBron stayed there for so many years. NBA is a job and career. If a better opportunity comes along, you take it. As in any job. Coaches change schools and teams every year.

    I thought the signs and the boos were so childish. Get over it Cleveland. So glad LeBron had a great game!!! I would hope that is the end of the hating on LeBron. All the added security... at least there wasn't anything major that happened.

    LeBron and 38 points.... very impressive!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by MulletMan View Post
    OK... I'll bite... why do you hate Cleveland and its fan base? Is this similar to your reasons for hating Harrison Barnes, or is there another reason that you have for hating 300,000 people?
    Just curious.
    Probably the same reasons most people do not like other teams or fan bases (fans are cocky, ignorant, owners show poor character, team wins too much, etc..).There are just certain teams and fan bases I do not like in general. . I do no like Barnes for the same reason everyone else here does not like him... he went to UNC.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke: A Dynasty View Post
    Probably the same reasons most people do not like other teams or fan bases (fans are cocky, ignorant, owners show poor character, team wins too much, etc..).There are just certain teams and fan bases I do not like in general. . I do no like Barnes for the same reason everyone else here does not like him... he went to UNC.

    You've got to be freaking kidding me! You hate Cleveland and their fans because they are cocky, ignorant, their owners show poor character and their teams win too much? WTF?

    You're talking about CLEVELAND! The rabid Browns fans in Cleveland have forgotten more about football and baseball than you'll know in your entire life. How are they cocky? They've lived through 60 years of agony and torment. You know why? Because their teams haven't won anything in forever. And regarding judging "owners who have poor character" maybe, since you seem so in awe of LeBron's little fund raiser for BGCA, you should consider how much money people like Al Lerner put back into their communities.

    Here's what I think. I think you're a big fan of LeBron, and you have every right to be. But I also think that since you're a fan, you've decided that a bunch of people who are critical of the fact that he promised to do whatever he could to bring a title to the long suffering fans of Cleveland are wrong, and so, you "hate" them.

    You also bemoan the fact that the owners in Cleveland didn't surround LeBron with the talent and the people of Cleveland didn't support him. Bull. LeBron left because Delonte West screwed his mother in a hotel room during the Boston series. So LeBron quit on his teammates and his hometown. The mistakes of two people caused him to turn his back on thousands and quit. Good for him. Why don't you rationalize that for me.

    But don't sit there and say that you hate Cleveland and all of their fans. My guess is you've a. not been to a sporting event in Cleveland, and b. know less than 10 people from the city.
    WWJDD?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by MulletMan View Post
    LeBron left because Delonte West screwed his mother in a hotel room during the Boston series. So LeBron quit on his teammates and his hometown. The mistakes of two people caused him to turn his back on thousands and quit. Good for him. Why don't you rationalize that for me.
    Hey, MulletMan. I agree with most of what you say, but I don't quite understand the rationale in the statement above that many people have espoused. Why is LeBron's decision to go to Miami "turn[ing] his back on thousands and quit[tting]"? Was he under a contract with Cleveland? Did he break a contractual obligation? In pro basketball (as with any other sport), if another team comes around when you're a free agent and offers 1.) more money, or 2.) a better chance to win, the athlete almost always moves and nobody thinks twice about it. Athletes are free to move about as they please as long as they're not under contract, just as owners/GMs can let players go as they please. LeBron was a great player for Cleveland for MANY years and worked hard for the team to give them results on the court. By all accounts, he was good to the Cleveland community as well. So, now after all those years of dedication, he is written off as a traitor just because another team came calling and he decided to go a new direction in order to have a better chance to win? I don't get it personally...I don't think LeBron owed the fans of Cleveland anything more than he already gave them.

    Yeah, "The Decision" was over the top and probably could have been handled better (he should have told ownership first), but the end result is the same so it shouldn't have made any difference. Players change teams ALL THE TIME for any reason they please. I don't understand why LeBron is the only one that gets villanized for it. I guess it's because 1.) he's a great player, 2.) he's from ohio, and 3.) he always said in the past that he "wants to bring a championship to cleveland" (players say stuff like this all the time, and we don't hold it against them). Boozer's departure seemed a lot more controversial (in that management voluntarily nixed the contract so he could get more money), but fans don't seem to hate him. In any event, if you could explain why LeBron's actions were so terrible, I would greatly appreciate it. It's certainly possible I'm missing something.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by MulletMan View Post
    You also bemoan the fact that the owners in Cleveland didn't surround LeBron with the talent and the people of Cleveland didn't support him. Bull.
    Judging from last night's game, it's hard to argue with either claim. That was a pretty horrible effort by the rump Cavaliers, and a pretty embarrassing performance by the Cleveland crowd.

  14. #14
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    Hey, MulletMan. I agree with most of what you say, but I don't quite understand the rationale in the statement above that many people have espoused. Why is LeBron's decision to go to Miami "turn[ing] his back on thousands and quit[tting]"? Was he under a contract with Cleveland? Did he break a contractual obligation? In pro basketball (as with any other sport), if another team comes around when you're a free agent and offers 1.) more money, or 2.) a better chance to win, the athlete almost always moves and nobody thinks twice about it. Athletes are free to move about as they please as long as they're not under contract, just as owners/GMs can let players go as they please. LeBron was a great player for Cleveland for MANY years and worked hard for the team to give them results on the court. By all accounts, he was good to the Cleveland community as well. So, now after all those years of dedication, he is written off as a traitor just because another team came calling and he decided to go a new direction in order to have a better chance to win? I don't get it personally...I don't think LeBron owed the fans of Cleveland anything more than he already gave them.

    Yeah, "The Decision" was over the top and probably could have been handled better (he should have told ownership first), but the end result is the same so it shouldn't have made any difference. Players change teams ALL THE TIME for any reason they please. I don't understand why LeBron is the only one that gets villanized for it. I guess it's because 1.) he's a great player, 2.) he's from ohio, and 3.) he always said in the past that he "wants to bring a championship to cleveland" (players say stuff like this all the time, and we don't hold it against them). Boozer's departure seemed a lot more controversial (in that management voluntarily nixed the contract so he could get more money), but fans don't seem to hate him. In any event, if you could explain why LeBron's actions were so terrible, I would greatly appreciate it. It's certainly possible I'm missing something.
    You're pretty spot on with all of these comments. I think that the thing here isn't that he didn't casually say, "I wanna bring a championship to Cleveland." He said over and over again, that he wouldn't rest until he brought the team, and the city, a title that it had been waiting a long time for. Heck, he built his whole image on the idea of being the savior of a city. This guy put out the aura that he cared for Cleveland and northern Ohio in a way that normal pro athletes don't.

    I don't think you can fully understand the hope that he brought to a city. Look, people in Cleveland are wonderful people. Like many places in the Midwest, they are polite, caring and generous. Also like much of the Midwest, the economy and population has been utterly desecrated by the destruction of American auto-industry jobs, the decrease in the steel industry and the decline of the American farmer. Yet the people who live there take tremendous pride in their towns, friends and family. They do that while looking out for one another and maybe caring a little too much about their sports teams.

    I don't watch the NFL anymore, and probably wouldn't pay attention to it but for fantasy football. Why? Well, for 50 years a city of steel and auto workers sold out 80,000 seat Cleveland Municipal Stadium even though the Brown weren't great for all of those years. Then the NFL allowed Art Modell to move the team. Why? So that he could have a new stadium. Why? So Art Modell could make more money. Screw the fans. Screw them. (Oh, PS... the people of Cleveland got to watch the franchise, with players that the Cleveland organization had drafted and developed, win the Super Bowl a few years later. Good times.)

    So here we are... hometown boy... the next all-time great... Cleveland gets the pick... they get the hometown kid! He's great. He's promising to work hard, to deliver the title that he KNOWS his fans are DYING to see before they actually leave this Earth. He takes them to The Finals... but they're too young. He leads them to the best record, but they get worked by Orlando. The Cavs work the team to fit around him... they're getting better and closer. Maybe... if he just stays...

    Then months of silence... then The Decision. And without a word to the fans or his teammates he moves out in the middle of the night. He crushes the dreams of hundreds of thousands of people AND he milks the whole damn thing by having his "people" throw misinformation out there that he's staying with the Cavs. He manipulates his fan base in order to build up interest in his TV special. Then he rips out the City's heart on national TV without a word of remorse.

    That's why its different, and that's why the people in Cleveland are upset. Oh, they'll get over it. They got to say what they wanted last night. But they won't forget.

    Lemme analogize this for all of you who say people in Cleveland are being over the top. You're crapping on Harrison Barnes for picking UNC over Skype and going to Carolina. You tore him down for doing something that was 1000 times less harsh than what LeBron did.

    Screw LeBron. He ruined his image, and his legacy. If he wins the title in Cleveland it HIS title... and its their title... and its a damn movie script. If he wins it in Miami... its the Big 3's title... and its still a movie script... but who roots for the villan?
    WWJDD?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    Judging from last night's game, it's hard to argue with either claim. That was a pretty horrible effort by the rump Cavaliers, and a pretty embarrassing performance by the Cleveland crowd.
    I suppose that efforts to get Chris Paul added to the roster and getting Shaq last year were worthless?

    And are you really saying that the crowd last night is reflective of the way the Cleveland fans treated him while he was there? Please.
    WWJDD?

  17. #17
    How can anyone criticize the behavior of Cavs fans? What were you expecting? He gave up in the Boston series last year and then announces on TV that he is leaving their team and still has made it clear he doesn't think he did anything wrong. Many of you criticize how HB handled his college commitment and would probably boo him at a Duke game but show support of LeBron. You have to put yourselves in the shoes of a Cleveland fan.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by MulletMan View Post
    I suppose that efforts to get Chris Paul added to the roster and getting Shaq last year were worthless?
    Didn't work too well.

    And are you really saying that the crowd last night is reflective of the way the Cleveland fans treated him while he was there? Please.
    I'm saying it was reflective of their true character. Isn't that what matters?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MulletMan View Post
    You're pretty spot on with all of these comments. I think that the thing here isn't that he didn't casually say, "I wanna bring a championship to Cleveland." He said over and over again, that he wouldn't rest until he brought the team, and the city, a title that it had been waiting a long time for. Heck, he built his whole image on the idea of being the savior of a city. This guy put out the aura that he cared for Cleveland and northern Ohio in a way that normal pro athletes don't.

    I don't think you can fully understand the hope that he brought to a city.
    You know, I wish Cleveland had articulated this a little better. It seems like there are primarily two things at the core of its anger: 1) The debacle that was "The Decision", but also 2) That Lebron promised he would bring them a title, and by leaving, broke this promise. I understood the first reason, but I - and I think most people - didn't really get that Cleveland was so angry about the second one. Makes sense, I suppose, not that it justifies the extent he's been vilified by some.

    But that last sentence is interesting to me. Is that really so bad? Many, many leaders do the same thing - set expectations high when they arrive, try to change the culture and mental state of the institution to a successful one.

    Cutcliffe has promised "championships" for Duke football. If he turns the program around in a few years, takes Duke to the brink, and say, barely loses in the ACC championship with a 10-3 record, then leaves... will we hate him? I certainly won't, I'll be grateful for the boost he would have given to our program while he was here. The fact that he didn't actually win a championship is too bad, but he would have given it his best shot and given us some great years, and given us hope. Isn't that a good thing?

  20. #20
    Oh please,

    Why would you even root for an arrogant boy-man that styles himself the "King" unless you were a Cavs fan to begin with? I think Cleveland saw how immature the "real" LeBron is. He's the one that ruined the Cavs by back-stabbing his coaches and having to approve all the trades. Look what he's already doing to Coach Spo in Miami. Boohoohoo I can't act silly during practice and Coach Spo is being a meanie......

    Any yes, after smack-talking his ex-teammates who he abandoned, he had the temerity to talk about his own "greatness".

    And, if you're a Duke fan, you should understand why Danny Ferry resigned when he realized that LeBron had more decision making power over the roster/coaching than anything he could do.

    Frankly, I don't understand rooting for a front-runner like LeBron. I guess the same can be said for me rooting for Duke, but hell, at least I went to this school.

    As for the ridiculous Coach Cutliffe analogy. I'll add on a factor that you choose to ignore. If Coach Cutliffe took us to the brink of a championship and then decided to use only half his scholarships, get rid of the OC and DC that got him to the championship and then jumped ship, that'll be a better indication of how one would feel with LeBron's jump to the Heat after he had a say in all the personnel decisions (and the resultant salary cap issues).

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