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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Bowie, Maryland

    UNC v. Illinois, etc

    The UNC/ILL game is absolute torchure to watch. Turnovers and terrible shooting makes my eyes very sleepy. ILL has no inside game and they are rated 21st in the country. WOW!!
    The Terrapin Assassin

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    I must say, UNC's defense looks very good so far in the Illinois game. The kids in orange aren't getting any good shots and they are all contested jumpers. If the heels knew to how value the ball the margin would be pretty big already.

    This actually my first time seeing UNC. There is some impressive physical talent out there.
    "Just be you. You is Enough."

  3. #3
    Zeller looks particularly good. Barnes, not so much.

  4. #4
    Somebody needs to tell all of these kids that if you are going to foul to try to save a basket, then make sure they don't hit the shot. That Illini guy should have made sure that if he was going to foul Barnes on that play, he took a good enough swat at his arm to make him miss!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Baltimore
    Quote Originally Posted by jipops View Post
    I must say, UNC's defense looks very good so far in the Illinois game. The kids in orange aren't getting any good shots and they are all contested jumpers. If the heels knew to how value the ball the margin would be pretty big already.

    This actually my first time seeing UNC. There is some impressive physical talent out there.
    This is the third UNC game I've watched this year.... This is the best they've looked energy-wise and on the defensive front.

    They're in trouble now as Zeller has just picked up his 3rd. Good move Roy keeping him in <shaking my head>. And how he does not call a time out in an away game after an 8-2 Illinois run is beyond me.

  6. #6
    I assume this thread will transit from its recent focus on HB and back to UNC overall during and after tonight's game with Illinois.

    So, a final [well, no, that's unlikely] thought on Barnes: reading the last couple of days debate on his talent and personality, I see that those who, however reluctantly, defend Barnes, contend that it's too early to judge his talent as overrated, and that it's unsporting to bash a teenager for a silly mistake or 2.

    The counter-position, asserted with some passion especially by several posters who have to put up with a bunch of Heel supporters, is that HB has brought most of his troubles on himself, providing a possible coup de grace with the revelation re the Black Falcon.

    I tend to side with the first view, certainly on the talent issue. The guy's good, very good, and will have some fine games. I also worry a bit about bashing the young man, or at least think I should worry about it. But I also worry about something else, which I hope I can describe dispassionately: it is a little troubling and even unsettling to see one that young so over-confident, so self-important. Barnes isn't quite the goofy teenager who just does dumb things. He strikes me, rather, as a young man who has drifted dangerously in the direction of playing the role of ..... himself, at 18, for heaven's sake. It's unsettling to see someone that young behave so calculatingly, and act in ways intended to have an effect. That is, his affect is intended to produce an effect. I hope he is not self-consciously playing Harrison Barnes at every waking moment, for it's not a very attractive role. It's too much.

    I've no idea how I would respond to HB had he chosen Duke. I kind of imagine I'd be a little nervous about him, and would have to tiptoe around these discomfiting issues. Maybe I'd have justified his behavior as youthful exuberance; but I'd have to lie to do that, for that's not what this is. Then again, had he chosen Duke, maybe he'd be a somewhat different guy. We'll never know.

    I'll end by citing what I think is the most sensible piece of advice in this thread......

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueTeuf View Post
    .I can still choose to allow one's comeuppance to flow from one's failures rather than anointing myself the rapier-tongued castigator of youthful egoism.
    ..... while acknowledging forthrightly that I myself have probably failed to follow this advice. My only excuse - and that's probably what it is - is that I don't see HB's persona-thing as youthful egoism. On that graph, he's very much an outlier.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Princeton, NJ

    OK ... that was funny on so many different levels ...

    Quote Originally Posted by jipops View Post
    Which one you talking about here?
    Attachment 1695Attachment 1694
    Can I give multiple pitchforks for this one, please????

  8. #8
    Wait, who is this guy?

    Link

    He has played in the game?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Ash View Post
    Wait, who is this guy?

    Link

    He has played in the game?
    That's probably just an error in ESPN's running box score - not uncommon - but that's Sylvia Hatchell's son, a former UNC JV player and current UNC walk-on.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Baltimore
    Barnes has made 1 single good play this whole half. He caught the ball down-low and finished with an and-1 on a mis-match. Good play. Outside of that, he has made one wide-open 3 that he had 3 seconds to set his feet for. He has missed 3 other wide-open 3s. His energy on the boards has been decent, but nothing extraordinary.

    His defense has been mediocre. I recall one fast break where he jogged back and was beaten in transition.

    For the announcers to still proclaim his greatness is beyond me. I haven't seen him take command of the game in any sense (in any of the 3 games I have watched). If he has beautiful silky smooth moves he sure is good at hiding them. All I see is a jump-shooter that, to be frank, ain't no Andre Dawkins. He often jumps in the air prematurely and has to dish off an ugly pass under stress. I've seen him do this several times.

    He doesn't seem to have an ability to create off the dribble from the perimeter. And that's fine. But it's bizarre that Roy's offensive scheme utilizes him on the perimeter where he has to go 1-on-1 so often. No running around screens or set plays. Incredibly bizarre.

    At this point, I'm not sure how much HB's poor play is due to us overrating him or Roy under-utilizing him.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Again, this is my first view of UNC in this young season, but Henson and Zeller look like terrific talents to me. No question Henson has made great strides in his game and physically he is an absolute freak with all that length. Zeller is very smooth as well and despite the foul issues (nice job there Roy on letting him get the 3rd) in this 1st half he has looked like the best player on the floor. Maybe their depth is hurting a bit up front but Knox gives them some nice production off the bench. Clearly the strength is in their front court. If they had a guard that could knock down shots they are right back in the thick of it.
    "Just be you. You is Enough."

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Baltimore
    Quote Originally Posted by jipops View Post
    Again, this is my first view of UNC in this young season, but Henson and Zeller look like terrific talents to me. No question Henson has made great strides in his game and physically he is an absolute freak with all that length. Zeller is very smooth as well and despite the foul issues (nice job there Roy on letting him get the 3rd) in this 1st half he has looked like the best player on the floor. Maybe their depth is hurting a bit up front but Knox gives them some nice production off the bench. Clearly the strength is in their front court. If they had a guard that could knock down shots they are right back in the thick of it.
    I agree about Henson and Zeller. I think Knox has turned out to be exceptional for them. He is a solid back-up. He hits the boards hard and finishes around the rim much better than I anticipated (and perhaps most importantly carries another slate of fouls).

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    this is heartbreaking. i cannot bear to watch it.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    The heels' backcourt players scored exactly zero points in the first half tonight. I hope their moms pack good lunches, because Nolan, Kyrie, and the boys are going to take them and eat them.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Baltimore
    Quote Originally Posted by kong123 View Post
    this is heartbreaking. i cannot bear to watch it.
    Kong -- quick question for ya. Has Roy always been this timid about calling time-outs. I just don't get it.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorns View Post
    Kong -- quick question for ya. Has Roy always been this timid about calling time-outs. I just don't get it.
    yes, he collects them and will one day hang a banner in the Smith Center to show how successful he was at not calling them.


    its moving way to fast for UNC right now. a good coach would recognize this and try and slow things down a bit for them. Roy just isn't getting it and I fear this will break him and our team. The IC Premium chat board is blowing up. Everyone is in agreement, Roy isn't getting it. There is a mixture of too many bad things and his coaching is a big part of it. This is the UNC team you will see over the next couple of years, get used to it.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Princeton, NJ

    Seriously ...

    Quote Originally Posted by kong123 View Post
    this is heartbreaking. i cannot bear to watch it.
    I really am having a hard time seeing how this group of players will make noise at any time during this season. Zeller is solid and Henson will get garbage buckets + a few jump hooks apparently. Threes can come from any number of the guards though it seems not any of them consistently. Barnes has a nice stroke but seems not to know how to get it off. I suggest he study the Kyle Singler playbook a bit.

    Most problematically is their point guard play and their defense. This is not a good team and there is absolutely no evidence that it ever will be.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Baltimore
    Quote Originally Posted by kong123 View Post
    yes, he collects them and will one day hang a banner in the Smith Center to show how successful he was at not calling them.


    its moving way to fast for UNC right now. a good coach would recognize this and try and slow things down a bit for them. Roy just isn't getting it and I fear this will break him and our team. The IC Premium chat board is blowing up. Everyone is in agreement, Roy isn't getting it. There is a mixture of too many bad things and his coaching is a big part of it. This is the UNC team you will see over the next couple of years, get used to it.
    Was he this timid even during great years, such as 2005 and 2009, or is this something that he's particularly doing with this bunch of kids?

  19. #19
    When the Illini students chanted "Overrated" while Barnes was inbounding, I got chills.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    It is a little peculiar to see this team struggle. There's a bevy of talent on this squad, and a more-than-serviceable point guard on the roster in Kendall Marshall.

    I suspect that, if Roy-Will can figure out how to get the light to come on for this bunch, they'll be a force to be reckoned with.

    Until then, it's divide and conquer. This squad does not play like a fist on either side of the ball.

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