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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    MBB: Duke v. Kansas State Pre-Game and In-Game Thread

    It's not technically official yet, but we'll be playing K-State tomorrow night in Kansas City. They look really, really good. Curtis Kelly is back in business. We're going to have our hands full. Should be a great game.
    Just be you. You is enough. - K, 4/5/10, 0:13.8 to play, 60-59 Duke.

    You're all jealous hypocrites. - Titus on Laettner

    You see those guys? Animals. They're animals. - SIU Coach Chris Lowery, on Duke

  2. #2
    I think it will be tough to find many open looks near the basket in the half court when KState has their bigger lineup in. I'm not sure how much their big lineup will play but I think Duke needs to run at every single opportunity to keep their bigs from clogging up the lanes.

    When KState has their smaller lineup in (which I'm guessing will be most of the game), I think Duke's guards will be able to get into the lane and hopefully find the open man. I think our perimeter defense will have to be on-point, as Pullen can really light it up when he gets going.

    Should be an interesting matchup, and I can't wait for tomorrow night.
    Last edited by ajgoodfella7; 11-23-2010 at 12:18 AM.

  3. #3
    Kansas State is a really bad matchup for Duke with their length and athleticism, but they're also a very inconsistent shooting team. They go 12 deep. It will definitely be an interesting game.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by FireOgilvie View Post
    Kansas State is a really bad matchup for Duke with their length and athleticism, but they're also a very inconsistent shooting team. They go 12 deep. It will definitely be an interesting game.
    I know why people thought that sort of team was a bad matchup for us last season, when we were "alarmingly unathletic," but why would a team with length and athleticism be a bad matchup for Duke this year?

    For that matter, as far as I can tell, we're the best team in the country. Why would any team be a "really bad matchup for Duke"?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Seattle
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I know why people thought that sort of team was a bad matchup for us last season, when we were "alarmingly unathletic," but why would a team with length and athleticism be a bad matchup for Duke this year?
    Because outside of Kyrie, Nolan, Dawkins, Miles, and Mason, we are not really that athletic.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I know why people thought that sort of team was a bad matchup for us last season, when we were "alarmingly unathletic," but why would a team with length and athleticism be a bad matchup for Duke this year?
    I was thinking the same thing. I don't think KState's guards have the lateral quickness to keep Irving and Smith on the perimeter. And I don't think KState's starting 5 is any more long or athletic then our starting 5. The only time KState will have a length advantage is when they play Kelly with Judge and Apprilla, or bring in their 7 footer. And if they do I think Duke can run circles around them.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by proelitedota View Post
    Because outside of Kyrie, Nolan, Dawkins, Miles, and Mason, we are not really that athletic.
    Interesting point (), except I'd add Kyle and Seth. (Maybe Josh and Tyler, too, but I haven't seen them play enough to form an opinion. I'll grant that Ryan isn't the quickest guy on the court.)

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I know why people thought that sort of team was a bad matchup for us last season, when we were "alarmingly unathletic," but why would a team with length and athleticism be a bad matchup for Duke this year?
    Okay, I'll put it this way: they're as bad of a matchup as we're going to face this year. When they are on (and they are inconsistent), they are extremely tough on defense. We will have trouble going inside on them. They play defense like we do. They're a great rebounding team and I really don't know if I can say that about Duke at this point. We will be doing a lot of shooting over them. Michigan State is probably more polished, but I think we will have an easier time against them.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by FireOgilvie View Post
    Okay, I'll put it this way: they're as bad of a matchup as we're going to face this year. When they are on (and they are inconsistent), they are extremely tough on defense. We will have trouble going inside on them. They play defense like we do. They're a great rebounding team and I really don't know if I can say that about Duke at this point. We will be doing a lot of shooting over them. Michigan State is probably more polished, but I think we will have an easier time against them.
    They definitely play great defense, if not Frank Martin might strangle them on the court.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by FireOgilvie View Post
    Okay, I'll put it this way: they're as bad of a matchup as we're going to face this year. When they are on (and they are inconsistent), they are extremely tough on defense. We will have trouble going inside on them. They play defense like we do. They're a great rebounding team and I really don't know if I can say that about Duke at this point. We will be doing a lot of shooting over them. Michigan State is probably more polished, but I think we will have an easier time against them.
    OK, but this seems kind of half empty to me. I assume we're going to be a bad matchup for them, too, right?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    OK, but this seems kind of half empty to me. I assume we're going to be a bad matchup for them, too, right?
    Duke is a bad matchup for everyone. That's why we're ranked number 1 in the country.

    I'm saying this will be a very tough game and I really think we will have more trouble with Kansas State than probably every other team in the country due to their style of play. We're going to have to have a big game on the inside in this one - the Plumlees are going to have to be on their game defensively.

    This could be a preview of the National Championship, IMO.

  12. #12
    A couple of things I'm concerned: (1) they have players that are capable of blocking shots, which can lead to fastbreaks. (2) their long arms will probably earn more rebounds.

    We didn't rebound that well today. Marquette had many offensive rebounds.

    If we can take of rebounding and stop fastbreaks, then we should be okay.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Interesting point (), except I'd add Kyle and Seth. (Maybe Josh and Tyler, too, but I haven't seen them play enough to form an opinion. I'll grant that Ryan isn't the quickest guy on the court.)
    Seth maybe but not Kyle. Thats the only thing that hurts Kyle is his athleticism. He makes up for it with shooting, desire, toughness, hardwork, and basketball IQ. Just imagine Kyle as "a freak of an athlete".

  14. #14
    I'm waiting for that one game where our whole team is playing consistently so that we can get the full picture as to what this team can do. Tomorrow would be a great time for that to happen.

    What I have been impressed with so far, is the way that this team (due to an abundance of talent) seem tough to beat even while not playing to it's potential. We are early into this season, however, it is easy to see that this Duke team will be hard to beat as long as one player is on fire, and while two or three other guys are making solid contributions. If Duke can put together a balanced, well rounded attack, where everyone is on, well then.... forget about it.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY

    Hostile As Hades!

    Also, this will be about as nasty an arena as we will face until we get into the heart of the ACC schedule. Grew up in KC and my family and friends tell me the town is REALLY buzzing about this game right now. Not terribly afraid of match ups in particular but all of these guys will be looking at this game as a chance to make a serious national statement... even more so than going to the E8 last year. While not the NCAA tourny, I feel like guys look at games like these as an opportunity to give there draft status a boost (Udoh, Alexander, Maynor, Davis).

  16. #16

    Things I would like to see

    Kyrie run the point, which he surely will do. If he goes out, I would like to see Tyler sub in for him.

    Nolan play shooting guard and Kyle play either the 3 or 4 depending on who KS has in the game. Both Nolan and Kyle focused on moving without the ball and not try to generate offense off the dribble. Both are exxcellent defenders and Kyle is a tough rebounder as well so they need to see a lot of PT.

    Mason definitely earned the starting role at the 4 or 5 if Kyle plays at the 4. Otherwise, I think Kelly can pay inside as a first choice when Kyle plays the 3. He isn't a super athlete but he gets into position well and can score and pass better than Miles at this point. If Miles is in the game, I think the offense should avoid trying to give him the ball inside in traffic.

    Dawkins also showed great promise in the Marquette game. He scored going to the basket and showing a lot of athletic ability. He also hit on a mid range jumper and from 3. He really didn't force shots and waited for good opportunities. He has size and his defense has come along. I liked the lineup with Mason, Kyle, Kyrie, Nolan and Andre.

    We need to bring our A game to beat KS. The coaches know that, and the kids do, so it may come down to a matter of will to determine the winner. I expect both teams to play very hard.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    If you look at current KenPom stats for Duke ( http://kenpom.com/team.php?team=Duke ), only 4 weaknesses stand out (and Duke is an outstanding team overall statistically):

    1. Duke is a bit sloppy with the ball, allowing a lot of steals (ranks 232nd in the country in this category). KSU is decent getting steals (ranks 88th) and very good at generating turnovers in general (rank 25th), so we have to do a better job of taking care of the ball. Valuing the ball is Major Concern #1.

    2. Duke doesn't have a great FTA/FGA rate (rank 201st), meaning the team isn't drawing as many fouls as ideally it should. However, KSU balances that out by ranking 192nd in defensive FTA/FGA. They are a physical team that will foul a lot and I expect Duke to get FT opportunities in this game.

    3. Duke gives up some offensive rebounds (rank 101st). Rebounding is Major Concern #2 because KSU really gets after it on the boards (outrebounded Gonzaga 41-29), especially with Curtis Kelly back. Right now KSU ranks 74th in offensive rebounding but last year they were 6th and I think that figure is closer to the truth.

    4. Duke only ranks 102nd in the country in 2-pt percentage defense (but that's a typical number for an overplaying Duke team and is one of the tradeoffs for forcing turnovers). Good news here, though. KSU only ranks 150th in two-point shooting percentage, so even if KSU can handle Duke's pressure and get the ball inside, I suspect they will have trouble finishing over Mason (as most players would).

    I expect a physical, defensive game that potentially is ugly to watch. From a Duke perspective (I might write a KSU perspective after this), if we can take care of the ball and hold our own on the boards, then we should win and likely win easily. I would play Singler a bit more at the 3 in this game to give us our best shot at winning the battle on the boards. Also, KSU's 4s and 5s aren't typically perimeter threats, as opposed to Marquette's Butler and Crowder at the 4. I would give Kelly and Miles a shot to guard KSU's true big men.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    KSU is a lesser team than Duke and has more weaknesses to pick at. (Keep in mind, though, that all these stats are from a sample of 4 games for each team, so take them with a grain of salt). I'll choose a couple of their weaknesses to write about.

    1. KSU has been TERRIBLE at FT shooting so far, shooting 52% from the stripe, which ranks 337th in the country. In what I expect to be a physical game with lots of fouls called, Duke can create separation in score if both teams just hit around their usual rate. (I don't expect KSU to shoot 52% for the season at the line, though, so maybe they'll have a "return to the mean" game against Duke. Hope not.)

    2. KSU offense only ranks 113th in the country in turnover percentage (KSU turns the ball over 20% of the time). Duke's defense forces turnovers. Might be a good matchup for us here.

    3. KSU ranks 264th in the country at defending the 3-point shot. Again, advantage Duke here.

    4. KSU has been shooting 39% from 3-pt range themselves. This is not a weakness per se (ranks 54th in the country) but it becomes one when Duke is your opponent. KSU is better at 3-point shooting than 2-point shooting and relies on the 3-pt shot a decent amount in their offense (ranks 84th in the country in 3PA/3FG). Duke is a nightmare scenario for that offensive profile since we have been the best program in the country at defending the three for awhile now. Again, I'm concerned about KSU's offensive rebounding, but if Duke can do a good job grabbing misses in this game, I think KSU will have lots of issues scoring. That's why I would like to see more of Kyle at the 3 in this game, also using his length to bother McGruder and Spradling on their 3-pt shots.

    KSU overall, imo, is a decent matchup for Duke, not a bad one. Protect the ball, rebound, and we win going away.
    Last edited by Troublemaker; 11-23-2010 at 09:18 AM.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    frank martin scares me...i don't even like looking at him...the hair gel makes it worse...

    that said, watching how a team like KS plays against the zags is not how they might play against duke...

    i expect a fierce defense out of our guys tonight...hopefully our experience mixed with the new talent will yield a W...

    would love to see kyle get his super-mojo working...kyrie will have to take care of the ball better...


    ......

    ........
    "One POSSIBLE future. From your point of view... I don't know tech stuff.".... Kyle Reese

  20. #20

    Could EASILY go either way

    We could win OR lose by double-digits. You can cite whatever stats you want, because they are sometimes relatively meaningless. This is a "respect" game for K-State.

    The crowd will be loud and surly. I envision that EVERY call will bring a boisterous response. Frank Martin is a glowering, near-psychopath. If you don't think their players will feed off of this, I believe you're sadly mistaken. Jacob Pullen is every bit as good as Nolan and will undoubtedly have a chip on his shoulder. Wally Judge can get up there with either Plumlee. These are the kind of "second-tier" marquee guys and slightly more street-tough players that love to try to stick it to Duke (usually accompanied by varying levels of rough play).

    Welcome to the big time, Kyrie, Seth, Josh and Tyler - you haven't seen anything like this yet.

    As I said, anything could happen tonight. All of the "undefeated season" types could be silenced, or we could beat them by 20. My stomach hurts already.

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