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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    You were blind to the internet, which on occasion was rife with stories (posted by competitors' fans) of Duhon's drinking. I hope he is able to get it under control before he ruins his life and his career.
    Count me as one who was also blind to the internet back then, and these stories are news to me. I think I may have heard one or two incidents of oversleeping or being late or something while Chris was at Duke, but I don't recall any drinking kind of problem. Thanks...

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by NW Indiana Dukie View Post
    Michael was a HUGE factor in Pippen becoming the Top 50 All Time Player he was. Don't get me wrong--Pippen was a stud but without Michael, he could not do it.
    And vice versa, IMO. Neither got it done without the other, or without Phil Jackson for that matter.

    I get miffed when people contend that, since the Bulls didn't win it all after MJ left, he was the only reason they won. First, they came damn close to making the finals the year after MJ left, one controversial foul call in game 7 as I recall. But, second, if instead of just subtracting MJ you replace him with the second best player in the league at his position (which IMO was Reggie Miller at the time), that team wins another championship. MJ was a great player but the hype on him was and is way out of control.

    ETA: These stories about Chris are really surprising and distressing to me. He's always been one of my favorites.

  3. #43
    Now THAT sounds like a Jerry Krause trade (wonder how much the statue contributes toward the cap)?
    "What am i doing in a state of consciousness where THIS is real?"

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by mapei View Post
    And vice versa, IMO. Neither got it done without the other, or without Phil Jackson for that matter.

    I get miffed when people contend that, since the Bulls didn't win it all after MJ left, he was the only reason they won. First, they came damn close to making the finals the year after MJ left, one controversial foul call in game 7 as I recall. But, second, if instead of just subtracting MJ you replace him with the second best player in the league at his position (which IMO was Reggie Miller at the time), that team wins another championship. MJ was a great player but the hype on him was and is way out of control.

    ETA: These stories about Chris are really surprising and distressing to me. He's always been one of my favorites.
    The Bulls weren't that close the year after Jordan retired for the first time. They lost to the Knicks in Game 7, but that was the Eastern Conference semifinals. The following year, the Bulls lost again in the Eastern Conference semifinal, this time to the Orlando Magic. With Jordan back the following year, of course, the Bulls won the championship again. (The Bulls were horrible the year after Jordan retired the second time, but that was after the team was gutted.)

    I saw practically every Bulls home game during the Jordan years. IMO, no way any of those Bulls teams win a championship with pretty much anyone but Jordan at the helm. Pippen was the player that was overrated, not Jordan. He is part of a long line of players that were fantastic with the Bulls, and somehow stunk when they left Chicago, or before they arrived in Chicago. (Among others, Steve Kerr, Craig Hodges, Horace Grant, Scott Williams...)

  5. #45
    Join Date
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    Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by gep View Post
    Count me as one who was also blind to the internet back then, and these stories are news to me. I think I may have heard one or two incidents of oversleeping or being late or something while Chris was at Duke, but I don't recall any drinking kind of problem. Thanks...
    Ozzie is spot on, and having had some overlap with Chris and hung out with him a bit I would say he definitely likes to party (although I wouldn't say he has a drinking problem at least no more than the average college kid who likes to party)

    Reggie Love (his soph yr roommate) was much crazier (you may remember how he rejoined the bball team as a 5th yr senior then was benched towards the end of the year b/c of an incident at UNC...)

  6. #46
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    May 2007
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    Washington, DC
    Count me in as one of the people who attended Duke during Duhon's years. I do not know if his drinking was more excessive than the average frat boy's intake but he certainly had a reputation as a heavy drinker and fair or not, basketball players were held to a different standard.

    FYI, I saw him play beirut (beer pong) a few times, and he was GOOD. Hearing some of these stories though makes me wonder if Chris has changed since college. In college, drinking is considered OK. If you drink in the real world like some of us did in college, that's considered alcoholism (and for good reason). I do hope Chris has toned it down a bit and it's not as bad as some people are speculating.

  7. #47
    Another Duhon contemporary here. Yes, Chris could put away a lot of alcohol. No, I don't remember ever seeing or hearing about him overdoing it, at least by college standards.

    If he still enjoys partying, good for him. He's 24, has a great job, and acts as a leader & role model in many ways. Better a little alky than the hard drugs & unsafe sex known to plague other highly successful young people.

  8. #48
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    Feb 2007
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    Wilmington, DE

    Would Kobe be a good mentor/

    Quote Originally Posted by NW Indiana Dukie View Post
    I believe Kobe could take Deng under his wing and help him blossom into a stud like Michael did with Pippen...
    This begs the question, would Luol Deng really benefit by becoming more like Kobe Bryant? Right now Deng seems to be very much a team player, with a good reputation. Has anyone ever really benefitted (that is, becoming a better basketball player, better skilled) by playing with Kobe?

    It does happen with some teams. For example, those playing on San Antonio have over the years benefitted from playing with Dave Robinson, and now with Tim Duncan. His character is not shaped by his success on the court, and it seems that those who are successful on the Spurs have bought into the "team first" mentality. I'm not sure that would be the result of any mentoring done by Kobe Bryant.

  9. #49
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    Highland, IN
    To be completely honest, I am not sure how the combo of Deng and Kobe would shake out. I do know the outside of Shaq, Kobe has not played with another player with the talent and upside of Deng. It is that factor that I am willing to explore the opportunity of Deng blossoming under the tutelage of Kobe.
    Last edited by NW Indiana Dukie; 06-21-2007 at 02:36 PM. Reason: sp

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by NW Indiana Dukie View Post
    To be completely honest, I am not sure how the combo of Deng and Kobe would shake out. I do know the outside of Shaq, Kobe has not played with another player with the talent and upside of Deng. It is that factor that I am willing to explore the opportunity of Deng blossoming under the tutalige of Kobe.
    I am not sure that you're giving Lamar Odom due credit. I don't know that Odom has always played up to his talent, but he has always been tremendously talented.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Austin, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by dukemomLA View Post
    Need some help here. My daughter was at Duke (class of '01) during part of Duhon's time. Chris' Mom and little brother were always featured in the crowd. I NEVER heard any stories -- or even a whisper -- about Duhon drinking, missing practice, oversleeping, etc.etc.

    Was I blind?? Or is this just NBA behavior -- and if so, has Coach K/Shane/Elton/JWill,etc. reached out to tell Chris to knock it off??
    I think anything at Duke was low key and not any different than any other red blooded American college student. Chris enjoyed a good party.

    My sister lives in Chicago and occasionally hangs out at the shee-shee (sp?) velvet rope places I'd never be caught dead in. Anyway she sees Chris out a bunch. Chris is a fixture on the Chicago social scene these days -- especially after hours. Nothing untoward, or to be ashamed of, it's just that he likes to have a good time and Chicago is a great place to have a good time, especially if you have money.

    Yes, it would be better if it didn't effect his day job. But he's not running with a sketchy entourage, doesn't have his name on the door of a secret room at a strip club, not brandishing firearms or getting DUIs or anything else. If sleeping through practice is his worst offense, well, let's just say a lot of us have probably been guilty of worse infractions in our day jobs caused by our evening lifestyle when in our early to mid 20s.

  12. #52
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    Highland, IN
    Out of everyone I could think of, Lamar was the one I was questionable on.
    I personally feel Deng will have a better or more high profile career than Lamar and that is not a knock on Lamar by any means. The only negative with Lamar is that out of his 3 seasons with Kobe, he only played 1 full season. He missed significant time in the other 2 seasons due to injuries. I just feel Deng is a better player.

  13. #53
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    Washington, DC

    Re MJ & Scottie

    Quote Originally Posted by gvtucker View Post
    The Bulls weren't that close the year after Jordan retired for the first time. They lost to the Knicks in Game 7, but that was the Eastern Conference semifinals. The following year, the Bulls lost again in the Eastern Conference semifinal, this time to the Orlando Magic. With Jordan back the following year, of course, the Bulls won the championship again. (The Bulls were horrible the year after Jordan retired the second time, but that was after the team was gutted.)

    I saw practically every Bulls home game during the Jordan years. IMO, no way any of those Bulls teams win a championship with pretty much anyone but Jordan at the helm. Pippen was the player that was overrated, not Jordan. He is part of a long line of players that were fantastic with the Bulls, and somehow stunk when they left Chicago, or before they arrived in Chicago. (Among others, Steve Kerr, Craig Hodges, Horace Grant, Scott Williams...)
    I agree with most of that, but not all. I think that Bulls team had enough talent to win it all with the second-best 2-guard in the league (had that been an option) as well as with the best. We'll never know, of course, but that's what makes barroom sports arguments fun.

    And MJ was mediocre with the Wizards, so he didn't do too well outside of Chicago, either. But that's a bit unfair, I guess, since the expectations were different at that point. And he was a horrible front office guy.

  14. #54
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    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by NW Indiana Dukie View Post
    Out of everyone I could think of, Lamar was the one I was questionable on.
    I personally feel Deng will have a better or more high profile career than Lamar and that is not a knock on Lamar by any means. The only negative with Lamar is that out of his 3 seasons with Kobe, he only played 1 full season. He missed significant time in the other 2 seasons due to injuries. I just feel Deng is a better player.
    We will see how Deng's career turns out, at this point we are really just speculating and assuming that a short-term trend of improvement continues. This is likely, as he is supposed to be a really hard worker. This is also where, if we're talking about talent, I was making a distinction between Odom's talent and his use of that talent. He's both been injured and has been known to slack off at times, smoke some pot etc. However, he is a much better passer than Deng will ever be, a better rebounder, a better long range shooter and better at getting to the rim. The only area Deng may currently be better is the mid-range shot. As a result, it's hard for me to say that Deng is more talented, especially since the last area, defense, is something that Odom is probably better at but I'm not sure. Odom does guard some really good 4s out in the west.

  15. #55

    Got a link?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clipsfan View Post
    ...I was making a distinction between Odom's talent and his use of that talent. He's both been injured and has been known to slack off at times, smoke some pot etc.
    Has been known to smoke some pot? Got any evidence of this?

  16. #56
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    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by Truth View Post
    Has been known to smoke some pot? Got any evidence of this?
    I take it you mean other than the fact that he's been suspended in the past for violating the league's drug policy by smoking pot?

    This is just the first hit from google, you can find more:

    http://cannabisculture.com/articles/1951.html

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Clipsfan View Post
    I take it you mean other than the fact that he's been suspended in the past for violating the league's drug policy by smoking pot?

    This is just the first hit from google, you can find more:

    http://cannabisculture.com/articles/1951.html
    Actually, I take it to mean that I should've read your post more carefully before I replied. Somewhere along the way I thought you were talking about Greg Oden, not Lamar Odom. I knew Oden was red-flagged for wrist & back concerns, but I hadn't read that was prescribed medicinal marijuana!

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