How do we get the upper crusties involved in cameron

[B-well]

The Crazies chant of "Stand Up" is not very well received and is kind of a put-down of a lot of very loyal Duke fans.

We need for the "upper crust" to become more animated and involved, but every attempt by the Crazies to do that over the past many years has failed.

It is important that these folks develop some sort of cheering persona since they are the fans who provide our on-site fan base during the post-season tournaments.

In many other college arenas (other than the dean dome), the "upper crust" crowd has developed some traditional cheers that they can remember from game-to-game.

One of the PAC-10 schools used to do some really good stuff with calling out a players name after a basket or great play.

Time for some creative thinking.

[monkey]

The Crazies chant of "Stand Up" is not very well received and is kind of a put-down of a lot of very loyal Duke fans.

We need for the "upper crust" to become more animated and involved, but every attempt by the Crazies to do that over the past many years has failed.

It is important that these folks develop some sort of cheering persona since they are the fans who provide our on-site fan base during the post-season tournaments.

In many other college arenas (other than the dean dome), the "upper crust" crowd has developed some traditional cheers that they can remember from game-to-game.

One of the PAC-10 schools used to do some really good stuff with calling out a players name after a basket or great play.

Time for some creative thinking.

No disrespect, but is this really a big problem? Assuming the students are doing their thing, Cameron is one the loudest arenas in the country. I also disagree with the statement that the folks in the upper level of Cameron constitute the on-site fan base during the post-season. Maybe for the ACC tournement. (wouldn't know, haven't been) The NCAA tourney gets a much broader fan base from the games I've been to. The cheers used in such games have been pretty simple (Let's Go Duke - which as others have pointed out, would be much better if not said at 100 miles per hour - Let's Go Devils, D-U-K-E, etc.) And the support, to my eyes and ears, at such games has been pretty good. I don't think there's going to be a Duke equivalent of Rock Chalk Jayhawk anytime soon, but nor do I think there needs to be.

[Troublemaker]

Agree that it's not really a problem. Respect the age difference. Standing and cheering wildly is great for the 19-yr-old student but probably isn't great for some of the folks upstairs.

Besides, Duke's players and coaches being great has a LOT to do with the great home record. We probably tend to overrate the impact that the Crazies have (but they do provide a fun and exciting atmosphere).

[CameronBornAndBred]

The crusties stand and cheer far more often and louder than the folks sitting down low on the players' side of the court. (Excluding the grad students and opposing team's fans). I miss the days when it was all students down there, it can be depressing to look at that crowd and wonder how those people can be so close to the action and not get excited. As for the upstairs bunch, that's where I've seen 99% of my games from. They don't cheer as often as the students, but they cheer loudly lots and do plenty of standing up. During really good games it can be a great workout session.

[uh_no]

We probably tend to overrate the impact that the Crazies have (but they do provide a fun and exciting atmosphere).

yeah, tell that to coach K....and he'll tell you how important they are to Duke's success at home over the past 25 years...if K didn't feel 100% that those students are one of the key reasons to our success at home, why doesn't he sell them to paying public? those seats would be worth 10k being courtside like that...you think K turns down that kind of money for 'a fun and exciting atmosphere'??? NO...if you've ever been to one of coach K's pre UNC talks to the crazies, you'd know how much he values them

now, if you're saying coach k is wrong and he overvalues the crazies? okay...

[CEF1959]

We students thought this was an issue 30+ years ago too. It wasn't and isn't. I've come around to the idea that you have to respect the different ways people want to show support (or disapproval) during a game. It changes over a lifetime for most. Remember: many of the people you call "upper crust" were once bouncing around nonstop in the student section when they were students. Now they pay for each and every ticket and may not want to stand nonstop anymore. They've graduated in more ways than one.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

We students thought this was an issue 30+ years ago too. It wasn't and isn't. I've come around to the idea that you have to respect the different ways people want to show support (or disapproval) during a game. It changes over a lifetime for most. Remember: many of the people you call "upper crust" were once bouncing around nonstop in the student section when they were students. Now they pay for each and every ticket and may not want to stand nonstop anymore. They've graduated in more ways than one.

You are so right! There are older people (older than me) in my section who now navigate the stadium steps slowly and with great care.

We should applaud those who continue to be so faithful and loyal throughout their lives, not try to tell them how to show their love of Duke.

[Troublemaker]

yeah, tell that to coach K....and he'll tell you how important they are to Duke's success at home over the past 25 years...if K didn't feel 100% that those students are one of the key reasons to our success at home, why doesn't he sell them to paying public? those seats would be worth 10k being courtside like that...you think K turns down that kind of money for 'a fun and exciting atmosphere'??? NO...if you've ever been to one of coach K's pre UNC talks to the crazies, you'd know how much he values them

now, if you're saying coach k is wrong and he overvalues the crazies? okay...

Well, I'm not saying the Crazies have literally zero impact on games and obviously Coach K would try to exert any advantage he can find, however minimal. (And I figure a fun and exciting game atmosphere helps with recruiting, too, no?). But obviously the players and coaches who bust their butts every day deserve way, WAY more credit for the home record.

It's difficult to continue this argument without some objective measures, though. With the statistical revolution that basketball is experiencing, someday soon an analyst like Pomeroy will provide a more definitive study across many years on where Cameron ranks in homecourt advantage. I'll be interested in seeing that. (I do know 2010 was an especially good year for Cameron.) Even then, if someone can extract the particular advantage that the overall Cameron environment provides (should not be tough to do statistically), it'll be tougher to extract the particular advantage that the Crazies themselves (a subset of the "overall Cameron") provide. I tend to think, for example, that Duke's program has had lots of great shooters that find it advantageous to shoot in a cozy gym with soft rims, and that has nothing or little to do with the crowd.

I'm not passionate about this argument, btw. I can be swayed. My original intent in this thread was just to support the folks upstairs in Cameron. Let them be.

[MulletMan]

The Crazies chant of "Stand Up" is not very well received and is kind of a put-down of a lot of very loyal Duke fans.

We need for the "upper crust" to become more animated and involved, but every attempt by the Crazies to do that over the past many years has failed.

It is important that these folks develop some sort of cheering persona since they are the fans who provide our on-site fan base during the post-season tournaments.

In many other college arenas (other than the dean dome), the "upper crust" crowd has developed some traditional cheers that they can remember from game-to-game.

One of the PAC-10 schools used to do some really good stuff with calling out a players name after a basket or great play.

Time for some creative thinking.

Look... I hear what you're saying, I do. But the simple fact is that the Crazies have a job to do, and they do it well. The "above the rail" crowd isn't supposed to be standing the whole game and going bat-sh*@ crazy. We did the whole egging on of the upstairs in my time as well. Here's the thing... standing for 3 hours and jumping around is tough. It gets exponentially tougher the older you get. Trust me, as I'm speaking from experience.

Here's the other thing... the "Stand up" thing works, but only when timed well. The folks upstairs aren't going to stand and cheer at every game. They're not going to bounce around when Duke is up 5 against Clemson. They've seen that movie before, and they know how it ends. However, if we're down one against UNC with a minute to go and we're coming out of a TV timeout, and you ask, they'll get up. Really, they will.

Its all about timing... kind of like the "Our House" chant.

Trust me, I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. And I had lots of success getting the upstairs up at critical moments.

[hurleyfor3]

In many other college arenas (other than the dean dome), the "upper crust" crowd has developed some traditional cheers that they can remember from game-to-game.

You're talking about a demographic that has trouble remembering to flush. And they're now supposed to remember what to cheer and when to cheer it?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

The crusties

I've been called a lot of things over the years, but I've never been called a crustie before!

And neither you nor I have to defend our enthusiasm at games...

[dukebballcamper90-91]

the upper crust is funny, i don't care who you are.

I think all chants need revamping. The our house chant is played out. I have to admit, I took my wife to a game in CIS against a good Clemson team and we saw Duke @ WFU. She said the game in winston was a lot better than the game in CIS. I was offended but oh well.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

You're talking about a demographic that has trouble remembering to flush. And they're now supposed to remember what to cheer and when to cheer it?

Many things people post are humorous and/or clever. This comment is neither.

[lpd1982]

I was in the upper stands last week and found myself feeling that I was irritating my seat neighbors when I joined the Crazies in cheers. No one, and I mean no one, picks up the cheers with you. I kept up my part, but it was a lonely endeavor.

As far as whether the Crazies make a difference, they sure do to recruits. Every recruit or committed player mentions the Crazies and their intensity. Whether it used to be better, whether it used to be more clever, is irrelevent to those who are coming for the first few times. The team feels the Crazies have their back and the recruits think it would be cool to be part of that.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I was in the upper stands last week and found myself feeling that I was irritating my seat neighbors when I joined the Crazies in cheers. No one, and I mean no one, picks up the cheers with you. I kept up my part, but it was a lonely endeavor.

I still bet you had a fun doing it, even though it was a solo act...and that's all that matters. I wasn't fast enough with my camera..if I was this would have been a picture of Ozzie waving his arms over his head instead of just clapping. (At CTC)

ozzie.jpg

[91_92_01_10_15]

If you guys want to get the crowd above the rail involved, a good idea would be to revive the old "Let's Go Duke" cheer. Back in the 80's (maybe 90's?), this cheer began to take on it's gradually increasing, self-terminating tempo. Before that, the cheer maintained a steady tempo, and often endured for minutes rather than seconds. It was quite loud and intimidating, too, IMO.

Incidentally, I noticed a few years ago that a few of the students tried to revive the old "We're going to get you" cheer with the finger wave and everything. It didn't catch on, but in its day, it was bone-chilling when everyone in the building was doing it.

Keep in mind, though, that memories of those cheers are childhood memories for me from the 70's and 80's, when it was all new, and a basketball game in Cameron was the most amazing thing I had ever seen, so my perspective may be a bit skewed.

Maybe someone who's been going to games a bit longer than me could can confirm/refute my recollections.

BTW, though Cameron games are no longer at the top of my "amazing things" list, they ain't far from it. ;-)

[CameronBornAndBred]

Keep in mind, though, that memories of those cheers are childhood memories for me from the 70's and 80's, when it was all new, and a basketball game in Cameron was the most amazing thing I had ever seen, so my perspective may be a bit skewed.

That's me as well...but I see the past a bit differently. Back then, the games were great, and I looked forward to each and every one..but I took them for granted. They were in a way just another fun night out with my family. Now...I relish the memories I still have from back then and soak in every second I'm fortunate enough to go back. The 70's and 80's (especially pre "Uncle Terry's Letter") were my favorite times..if I could go into Cameron now and see the other team actually sitting on their bench during timeouts, with the yellow shirts of BOG screaming in their ears, I would be in Heaven. It was a different world back then. The upstairs was just as active or inactive as it is now...it's a matter of perspective. Wish I had a time machine.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

The 70's and 80's (especially pre "Uncle Terry's Letter") were my favorite times..if I could go into Cameron now and see the other team actually sitting on their bench during timeouts, with the yellow shirts of BOG screaming in their ears, I would be in Heaven. It was a different world back then. The upstairs was just as active or inactive as it is now...it's a matter of perspective. Wish I had a time machine.

In the mid 70's, those weren't BOGgers, we were Phi Psi's, and the shirts were Hunter Green We sat in the 4th row, right behind the buffer zone/JV football team...

[CameronBornAndBred]

In the mid 70's, those weren't BOGgers, we were Phi Psi's, and the shirts were Hunter Green We sat in the 4th row, right behind the buffer zone/JV football team...

I was color blind and illiterate back then.

[uh_no]

I
Incidentally, I noticed a few years ago that a few of the students tried to revive the old "We're going to get you" cheer with the finger wave and everything. It didn't catch on, but in its day, it was bone-chilling when everyone in the building was doing it.

tried to do it before the UNC game 2 years ago, but there was never a good gap in between when announcements and ads are flying and when the band or videos are playing....unfortunately...the plan last year was to link arms, which the team did before every game as a sign that there was no weak link in the chain (which is why they did it on stage after winning the title) and K told the students (without telling the players that he told the students) that he wanted all the crazies to link arms when the team came out...can you imagine how that would have looked to the players, who were just linking arms in a moment of almost meditation to come out and see the entire student section with arms linked would have been an incredibly motivating moment...

unfortunately...this was the carolina game...so there was not enough room to link arms