UNC early season form

[CharlestonDevil]

Ok, so the general consensus is that UNC's main problem isn't talent, it's how Roy doesn't know what to do with it. I see the main team chemistry issues like this...

4) 09 Hangover - Obviously UNC was terrible last year. But we can already see through Roy's comments (I.e. "can't control my team", "last year was the hardest I've ever had", etc.) that his focus is not on coaching up this year's squad and reaching their potential, but on erasing the memory of last season. If things start to go poorly early on, the criticism and failures from last year will begin to infect this year's squad.

3) Talent vs. Leadership - HB is a stud, but if his performance on the court doesn't evoke pride and toughness from the rest of the team, where will the leadership come from? There are no upperclassmen to lead the way, and with Roy's inability to keep the team focused someone needs to step up. Chapel Hill could certainly use a Kyle Singler or Nolan Smith.

2) HB pressure - This has been discussed at length so I won't go in to it deeply. But as their star player he needs to come close to living up to expectations if he is to inspire and lead his teammates. Expectations that are some of the highest for any freshmen in recent memory. If this doesn't happen the entire team could be lost when you can't "go to" your "go to guy".

1) Larry Drew/Kendall Marshall/PG Play - College basketball is a game that hinges on the performance of the 2 guards, and primarily the PG. A guard who turns the ball over, can't efficiently run the offense, or is not consistent has a greater impact than at any other position. If LD3 doesn't play well, competition with the freshmen Marshall could become poison to the team chemistry. If they can't co-exist and Roy cannot foster a team first mentality, the inconsistent play could destroy any chances of a successful season. I firmly believe this could issue could control the fate of this team regardless of the play of HB.

Best case scenario all of these situations go poorly, jumping off the sinking Tarheel ship and on to the NBA becomes the focus of the individuals, Roy has more media meltdowns, and UNC flames out again.

[kong123]

Doesn't leadership also need to come from the sidelines... before, during and after the games?

sure, but players play the game and the coaching from the sideline isn't causing LD to throw the ball away or HB to miss shots. I understand the rub on Roy and I agree that he could say things differently, but he doesn't.

either the players have it or they don't. either the player is a winner or they are not. coaches are supposed to put their players in the right position to win, but the players are ultimately responsible for dribbling the ball and shooting the shots. Roy did recruit these kids and pair them with one another, so there is responsibility there. He also feels that he gives them optimum effort from the bench, but maybe he could change his tactics a bit. That will not happen, the most stubborn man in the business. There is enough blame to go around.

[OldPhiKap]

I think UNC's issues are less about chemistry and more about experienced leadership. I think this team has time to build that experienced leadership, but if the fan base remains as unstable and as blood thirsty as they currently are, then this can be another poor year.

The leadership needs to come in a couple of ways.

First, we need at least one guy who is capable of creating his own shot off of the dribble. Right now, HB hasn't shown the willingness to take his guy off the dribble. Until he is able to do this, he isn't an All-American and he isn't even All-ACC. What sets Lebron and Kobe apart from other NBA stars is their ability to do it all. Including scoring off the dribble when the team really needs a bucket.

Finally, the team needs confident leadership from the PG spot. Drew doesn't not appear to be able to recognize the opponents defense nor does he have ability to change his approach to attacking that defense. If UNC lacks the personnel to attack an offense off of the dribble, then the PG has to get the ball to his scorers so that they can score. The passes have to be on time and on target. To me, until HB completely develops his offensive skill-set, Kendall Marshall is the man to lead the offense. There maybe a bit of a learning curve before he finally gets it, but even an inexperienced KM is better than a 3rd year LD. That kid just doesn't seem to get it.

This. And it was what wrecked UNC last year, too.


Leadership can come from the bench, but you need experienced folks and players who will take ownership. One of the great things about the Duke behind-the-scenes programs was seeing how Nolan has taken the vital leadership role for us this year.

Sometimes, you have to hear it from your peers.

[MChambers]

I emailed my N.C. State friends after today's loss and said that at least our basketball team isn't overrated.

Needless to say, what a terrible two day stretch. I don't want to go back and find the posts in this thread that I'll respond to, but one or two mentioned that the rivalry isn't fun with Carolina stinking it up. I believe Moonpie appropriately responded to that notion, but I will, too... Carolina survived 8 - 20, we will survive this. And even if the worst happens, Carolina responded to '91 - '92, and will respond to whatever happens this season, as well.

And I've said this numerous times as it seems to come up often, but comparing the relative civility of DBR to IC is like comparing... well... any coach to the success of Anson Dorrance.

As for the game itself, congrats to Tubby. I have criticized him on this board before, believing him to be a good but not great coach. Maybe I'm still right, and he just beat a good but not great team.

The one aspect I haven't heard people mention in this thread was the foul trouble for Zeller. I'd be curious to see his plus minus for the game, as until Henson finds more offense, it seems that Zeller and Barnes will need to be options one and two. When one is shooting an 0-fer and the other is riding the bench, it's going to be a long night.

Nice of you to check in and give us your thoughts. I think you are right about how key Zeller is.

I'm skeptical about Henson finding offense, given that he's shooting 23% from the line. I just don't see him developing a jump shot this year, and I can't see him being much of a low post scorer this year, given how thin he is. No doubt he has a lot of physical talent, but, like Mason Plumlee, it may be a while before he is a polished scorer.

[Kedsy]

I think UNC's issues are less about chemistry and more about experienced leadership. I think this team has time to build that experienced leadership, but if the fan base remains as unstable and as blood thirsty as they currently are, then this can be another poor year.

Kong, this is an honest question, not a dig: do you really think the fanbase can ruin the team's performance to that extent?

Ultimately, I think things are not as bad as Heel fans seem to think it is. I liken this year to 2005-06 for UNC. Yes, I realize it's different when your star freshman is a wing rather than a center, but I see a lot of parallels.

I just looked it up, and the 2006-06 UNC team beat Gardner-Webb by only 3 points in their opener (in the Dean Dome) and lost to a decent but not great Illinois team fairly early on. But they got better as the year went on and ended the year as the #10 team in the country before losing in the 2nd round of both the ACC and NCAA tournaments. If this year's team did exactly the same I imagine you (as a Heel fan) wouldn't be doing cartwheels, but you couldn't call the year a failure for UNC either.

[timmy c]

This. And it was what wrecked UNC last year, too.


Leadership can come from the bench, but you need experienced folks and players who will take ownership. One of the great things about the Duke behind-the-scenes programs was seeing how Nolan has taken the vital leadership role for us this year.

Sometimes, you have to hear it from your peers.

You are right OPK. Experience does not come overnight.

This year’s UNC team reminds me of the 2006-07 Duke team that went 22-11. For all his talent, McBob was not the kind of kid who could offer leadership as a sophomore and Paulus had tons of leadership potential but was not the elite PG that many expected. The good news was that that team had several quality freshmen- Scheyer, Thomas, Zoubek and Henderson- who continued to develop over their careers.

I’m not sure Barnes, Bullock and Marshall will be around long enough to be rewarded for learning the hard-knocks lessons required to win at UNC in the future.

[kong123]

Kong, this is an honest question, not a dig: do you really think the fanbase can ruin the team's performance to that extent?

Ultimately, I think things are not as bad as Heel fans seem to think it is. I liken this year to 2005-06 for UNC. Yes, I realize it's different when your star freshman is a wing rather than a center, but I see a lot of parallels.

I just looked it up, and the 2006-06 UNC team beat Gardner-Webb by only 3 points in their opener (in the Dean Dome) and lost to a decent but not great Illinois team fairly early on. But they got better as the year went on and ended the year as the #10 team in the country before losing in the 2nd round of both the ACC and NCAA tournaments. If this year's team did exactly the same I imagine you (as a Heel fan) wouldn't be doing cartwheels, but you couldn't call the year a failure for UNC either.

no, i do not think a fanbase can ruin a season for a team, but I do think a fanbase that gets to high after a win and too low after a lose can place undue pressure on a young team that is struggling and still learning to win. Kendall Marshall's dad posted on the IC yesterday calling out all of the fan's that were already jumping ship. His attitude is incredible and I am really glad to know that there are people around the players that can keep things in perspective.

the difference for the 2005-2006 team was Tyler Hansbrough. Is there a TH on this years team? I don't see one early on. I do not want to be part of the problem. I realize that by posting negative observations that I am contributing to the problem, but this is truly like I see it. I think we will recover from this loss and I believe we will win tonight and hopefully again this week at Illinois. I will still go into each game thinking we can win, including the Duke games, but I am not confident in this team as of yet.

[ncexnyc]

One loss and the season is over for the heels. I just hope the Duke faithful will exhibit a little more restraint after our first loss.

This is so silly, people taking potshots at HB left and right. I wonder why Coach K even bothered recruiting such a no talent in the first place. Oh wait, those 9 boards weren't to shabby and his free throw% was extremely solid, despite the 0-whatever it actually was, this kid can play.

There's way to much basketball to be played before people start making some of the outlandish statements that are being posted on this board.

[davekay1971]

There's way to much basketball to be played before people start making some of the outlandish statements that are being posted on this board.

While I absolutely agree that it's way too early for people to label HB a bust, if you watched the UNC Minnesota game you saw some problems that are fundamental to the team. There's all kinds of losses, and this one, for UNC, was a bad one. They lost because they couldn't do anything in a half-court set, and because their own halfcourt defense had too many lapses against a pretty unimpressive Minny offense. They also seemed to give up the last few minutes of the game. When Minny turned up the pressure and intensity, UNC wilted.

Those are trends that, for a UNC fan, have to be disturbingly reminiscient of last year. HB's 0fer is probably an aberration...one lousy game for a talented frosh. He'll be fine. The team, as a whole, however, looked like it has some significant problems. Obviously the season's just starting and they're young and they can improve a lot. But for them to be as good as their fans want them to be, it's going to take some serious coaching by Roy. So I guess we get to see if he learned anything from last year...

My presciption for UNC: focus on half-court defense, work on creating mismatches and getting open looks in the half-court offense, turn the team over to Marshall, and run when the defense creates the opportunities. In other words, fire Roy, hire K, and play like Duke

[Kedsy]

the difference for the 2005-2006 team was Tyler Hansbrough. Is there a TH on this years team? I don't see one early on.

If by this you mean there's nobody on the team who you can absolutely count on for a basket (or at least a couple free throws) in a half-court set, then it's hard to disagree with you. But what I respected most about Hansbrough (even though, as a Duke fan, I couldn't stand him) was his drive. He tried harder and wanted the ball more than anybody else and it rubbed off on his teammates. And though I hope he doesn't, I would think that Barnes, with his documented work ethic, could approach that.

It's hard to believe there are Heel fans jumping ship already.

[Wander]

One loss and the season is over for the heels. I just hope the Duke faithful will exhibit a little more restraint after our first loss.

Duke's going to lose?

[dchen09]

UNC on the way to another loss.

[oldnavy]

Serious question. Does anyone else get the feeling that Roy doesn't like UNC? From the famous quote after the Kansas loss, to his well publicized disdain for the fans that call into his talk show, to how he so quickly seperates himself from the players when they do not play well to this latest comment about not being able to control his own team... He has to care on some level, but I really think that he is basically unhappy coaching UNC. I must be wrong, right???

[Kdogg]

I don't realistically expect a repeat of last year's debacle.

But...WHAT IF????

If they screw the pooch again this year, how safe is Roy? I mean, where else would they go? Larry Brown, Karl? You've got to believe that Roy is fairly bulletproof, no matter what happens this year (and no, I don't think they'll miss the NCAA tourney again).

Silly to speculate, I know, but one can dream.

Roy's not going anywhere. He's a favored son if not THE favored son of Carolina. Plus he does have two titles and three FF in the last five years. Gary up in College Park has milked his title for almost a decade. Also there's no ready candidate on the current Carolina coaching tree meaning they would have to look outside the program. Karl has serious health concerns and Brown has never really planned roots anywhere. Stuff like that could be used against them in recruiting and the university knows that.

[davekay1971]

I'm just glad that LDII has his rap career as a fall-back. Here's some lyrics from his next hit single, LaDiDaDi: Tarheel Remix...

La Di Da Di
I can't hit a shotty
Can't make a pass
Can't get by nobody

I'm just a Heel that's on the court
But when I try to run the show
I come up a little short

For yall Heel fans, bringing you a tear
Cause, yeah, it's gonna be just like last year

[kong123]

its tough watching this team that appears to be poorly coached. poor spacing for passing lanes and driving lanes. everyone moving around and just bumping into one another. no direction at all. hope they figure this out. either this is poor coaching or the kids are uncoachable. could it be both? this is tough to watch!

on a good note, HB seems to be finding a way to contribute on offense. defense still leaves a bit to be desired.

[DevilHorns]

Vandy given the Heels a game in the 1st half. Vandy 33 - UNC 25, ~3 min left in 1st half

Barnes got burned early by the more athletic Taylor, but has kept his composure and got some shots to stick from mid-range. He isn't that fast on the floor; he's good in terms of mechanics but defintely not top-gear in terms of explosiveness.

Zeller is playing well from the offensive block.

The entire UNC team is suspect on D. They play with very little effort, especially in transition and help D.

[TheRob8801]

This Tarheel team could very easily lose 15+ games again this year.

[DevilHorns]

Vandy isn't really playing that well, but they lead by 10.

Vandy 39 - UNC 29 at Halftime.

Henson airballed a FT a few minutes ago. LOL.

UNC is not that much improved from last year in terms of chemistry and team defense. This is the first time I'm watching an entire game for UNC this year and I am not impressed at all. Frankly they play like they're gutted. Zeller is good from the block and they finally started to feed him consistently. Their use of Barnes is suspect; havent't seen any sets designed for him. Isn't he supposed to be a NPOY candidate? I don't know why they aren't trying to utilize him more.

I think Marshall will have this team's PG starting spot by the time ACC play begins (or maybe even earlier if Roy wises up).

I don't know what it's like in Roy's locker room, but wow, can he not motivate his players. Is there even a pulse out there?

[Dev11]

Is UNC going to use this zone defense a lot this year? Zone is really not for a team with experience and focus issues.

Barnes looks competent in the first half, but not unbelievable. Zeller is their best player. Henson still can't produce offensively.