UNC early season form

[Lord Ash]

I have to admit, I snooped around on the IC boards and found that most UNC fans think this team is going 28-2.

Unrealistic, and I doubt any serious-minded Heels fans would believe that. Don't invest too much in the predictions of the more "homerish" fans.

[gumbomoop]

I said it back when Al posted his pre-season ACC preview, and I'll say it again. I don't think Carolina's "talent" can overcome their chemistry issues.

This is a big issue. For myself, I'd eliminate the quotation marks around Carolina's talent, although I acknowledge that as 3 of their most talented players are frosh, it's unproven and unlikely to be consistent for awhile. So even if one were to acknowledge Carolina's talent, we'd still have to say that talent has to overcome chemistry and inexperience.

An intriguing aspect of the chemistry issue is the coach. There's been a fair amount of evidence cited on these boards re "throwing the players under the bus," so no need for me to rehash that. But I must say, it doesn't seem helpful for Roy to have said, after the Minn loss, "I can't control my own team, how can I control SportsCenter?" [http://www.startribune.com/sports/go...aPc:i_kchO7DU]

Whereas the Minn Tribune writer was unhappy with Roy's "blame the media" [e.g., SportsCenter] explanation for some of HB's early troubles, the real wowzer here was the "I can't control my own team" remark. For it (1) bespeaks more than a hint of his "woe is me" obsession, (2) is a foolish thing to say publicly about a team that obviously must be nurtured if it is to jell into a cohesive group, and (3) suggests an unbecoming, off-putting panic at the very beginning of what is universally understood to be a delicate task.

I think Carolina is talented [rather than "talented"] enough to become a very good team. Of course I thought that last year, almost to the hilarious end. I was virtually the last to see the light, I guess because I assumed that Roy Williams was a very good coach. I don't assume that these days, by which I mean I just don't know what to make of his decisions and behavior. How he handles the several delicate issues on his team will be a test of his coaching acumen. I have no idea just how much his "I can't control my own team" revealed, about his team or himself. But the soap opera seems to have been renewed for its second season.

[slower]

I don't realistically expect a repeat of last year's debacle.

But...WHAT IF????

If they screw the pooch again this year, how safe is Roy? I mean, where else would they go? Larry Brown, Karl? You've got to believe that Roy is fairly bulletproof, no matter what happens this year (and no, I don't think they'll miss the NCAA tourney again).

Silly to speculate, I know, but one can dream.

[calvindog]

Roy won't get canned no matter what happens this year. But I'm not all that comfortable that the Holes will perform up to the expectations they set for themselves. The freshmen look good and it's still really early; however, Barnes shooting 0-13 against Minnesota really does suggest that he's not quite the savior they were sold. The ability of the fan base to delude themselves is nothing new and they'll need a few more years like last year before they can accept the reality that Ol' Roy is not a great game coach. After his performance last year you'd think that would have already sunk in.

[tecumseh]

As Yogi Bera said about baseball only half is physical 90 percent is in your head. HB has had no real success at Carolina with which to wash this bad night away. I for one am not 100% sure "he will be fine". Shooting is confidence to a large degree if you lose your confidence in your shot it can be very hard to find it. I seem to remember a Carolina recruit who was like #1 recruit in football in basketball who played PG and lost all confidence in his shot and could not throw it in the ocean after a while

The next few games are critical for HB if he has a bad shooting night again today better call the psychologists

[fisheyes]

ESPN is asking "Which Harrison Barnes will we see more of this season...7-11 against Hofstra or 0-12 against MN?"

Ouch! The pressure is really on the freshman.

More red states than I would have guessed.

[moonpie23]

60 degrees, warm, sunny...you can hear the leaves rustling and Tar Heels crying...


ahhhhh.....gotta love the fall in nawth kackalacky...

[Gthoma2a]

Over-rated! Over-rated (the hyphen is for the chantability)!

[BD80]

I do have to say, the IC board is in melt-down like I haven't seen since the Doherty days. There are "All Americans" over there saying flat out that Roy can't coach, or referring to him thusly: "He's a used car salesman with a gimmicky scheme that does not emphasize basic fundamental basketball. He's also too arrogant and stubborn to see the error of his ways." ...

I KNEW there was some intelligence in Chapel Hill! It's just that they usually keep it so well hidden when it comes to issues of college basketball.

... I believe HB has the world coming down on him, whether the pressure it is coming from the press or whether it is self imposed, fact is- you can feel it when you watch the game. Roy needs to figure out a way to get through to him and get him to let it go a bit. Probably will not happen, but I can see a kid like HB, who seems to be way too aware of himself, being lost to the pressure. ...

It would be a shame for HB to be suffocated by the pressure. I didn't like the egocentric Skype announcement, but he is a kid we wanted badly, and is generally a good kid. Hopefully, he will realize that he will do better as a complementary piece in the NBA next year, where he won't be the center of attention

For a young man to put such massive amounts of pressure on himself... he may end up not being good at all. ...

I wonder if Barnes stayed around in the gym shooting into the deep night by himself... again.

Well, as poorly as he shot, using his last "poor" performance as a barometer, he would have stayed in the gym and won't be out until the next game

I am perhaps the biggest critic of Roy Williams on this site... I will continue to use the term Ol Roy because he has referred to himself in that manner and it is descriptive of his personality and actions ...

Hmm, I think you might have some competition as ol' roy's biggest critic.

I will stop calling him ol' roy when he stops the "just an ol' country boy" routine.

[JasonEvans]

ESPN is asking "Which Harrison Barnes will we see more of this season...7-11 against Hofstra or 0-12 against MN?"

Ouch! The pressure is really on the freshman.

More red states than I would have guessed.

Is Carolina's typical opponent likely to be the caliber of Hofstra (rated #190 by KenPom) or Minnesota (#33)? It would be logical to conclude that quality of opponent played at least somewhat of a role in this.

That said, I strongly doubt that Barnes will be as bad as he was against Minn in other games. Despite our glee at his struggles, the kid is a major talent and a hard worker. He's going to play well more often than not.

--Jason "my opinion...Carolina is not Top Ten, but not NIT bound either" Evans

[quota]

I agree - it's definitely fun to see them lose (this has been a good weekend for that!) but making conclusive statements about the team based on one game in November in which their best offensive player had possibly the worst night of his basketball life is a bit of a reach.

I watched the game vs. Minny, and I'm here to tell you that the same fundamental problems from last year (lackluster effort, poor communication, stupid turnovers) are the same things plaguing this year's UNC team. They may have Barnes, but I don't know that he by himself is enough to save this year's Carolina squad from itself.

[Gthoma2a]

I watched the game vs. Minny, and I'm here to tell you that the same fundamental problems from last year (lackluster effort, poor communication, stupid turnovers) are the same things plaguing this year's UNC team. They may have Barnes, but I don't know that he by himself is enough to save this year's Carolina squad from itself.

This situation reminds me of a Married with Children episode. It is the one where Peg wins the personal training with that television fitness guy, but instead of him getting her into shape, she has him smoking, and eating bon-bons. Ultimately, he is so out of shape that when he goes back to work, he has a heart attack. It may not be that Barnes will bring them to his level, but they may drag him down to theirs. The culture there right now is poison.

[jdj4duke]

I said it back when Al posted his pre-season ACC preview, and I'll say it again. I don't think Carolina's "talent" can overcome their chemistry issues.

I am always struck by the frequency of references to UNC's "talent". Maybe it just ain't that good. Maybe the word talent has become interchangeable with highly recruited. After the Minnesota game, I read all the post game comments from UNC and, just as last year, there are numerous complaints about execution, missed free throws (how's that for talent?), lack of aggression, lack of intensity, etc and on and on.

If the assumption is that talent includes physical ability, mental and psychological discipline, self-motivation, the ability to be coached, take instruction, and adapt. I am not sure that by those standards UNC is particularly talented, especially at this point of the season (and I realize that this train of thought doesn't begin to address the questions about the UNC coaches and how they perform).

UNC will win a lot of games but not nearly as many, or in as dominating a fashion, as their fans think they will. I agree completely with the talent and chemistry equation in the quote above; I don't believe that they are as talented as they are perceived to be, and all the other bits and pieces contributing to chemistry, at least today, are a lot worse.

And of course I hope they stay that way-

[Devilsfan]

Please, I beg of you, have some compassion for ol'roy. Afterall his life has been such a disaster. He truely feels he is worse off than those unfortunate souls living in a post earthquate devistated island now besieged with illness. Poor poor roy.

[roywhite]

I watched a good part of the Minny vs UNC game and noticed this about HB's game:

1. He wasn't hitting his shots---we all realize that and it can happen to anybody (remember Kyle vs Baylor)

2. He was taking difficult shots (turnarounds from some distance, closely guarded jump shots) and getting very few good looks off the offense. Frankly, his shot selection reminded me of something you might see from Kobe Bryant...some tough looks, but, of course, Kobe hits a good share of those, and HB has not proven himself to that degree.

3. He wasn't particularly setting up his teammates

I'll be curious to see how he does against their next quality opponent.

[Gthoma2a]

Does anyone have a link to the Roy Aid video from last year. It is the charity one that mentions a bunch of UNC's losses, and says to give what you can. This may be in the wrong place, but I want to get this to torment a hole fan I know.

[airowe]

Does anyone have a link to the Roy Aid video from last year. It is the charity one that mentions a bunch of UNC's losses, and says to give what you can. This may be in the wrong place, but I want to get this to torment a hole fan I know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeC2EGkZeGM

[Gthoma2a]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeC2EGkZeGM

Oh thank you!

[kong123]

I think UNC's issues are less about chemistry and more about experienced leadership. I think this team has time to build that experienced leadership, but if the fan base remains as unstable and as blood thirsty as they currently are, then this can be another poor year.

The leadership needs to come in a couple of ways.

First, we need at least one guy who is capable of creating his own shot off of the dribble. Right now, HB hasn't shown the willingness to take his guy off the dribble. Until he is able to do this, he isn't an All-American and he isn't even All-ACC. What sets Lebron and Kobe apart from other NBA stars is their ability to do it all. Including scoring off the dribble when the team really needs a bucket.

Finally, the team needs confident leadership from the PG spot. Drew doesn't not appear to be able to recognize the opponents defense nor does he have ability to change his approach to attacking that defense. If UNC lacks the personnel to attack an offense off of the dribble, then the PG has to get the ball to his scorers so that they can score. The passes have to be on time and on target. To me, until HB completely develops his offensive skill-set, Kendall Marshall is the man to lead the offense. There maybe a bit of a learning curve before he finally gets it, but even an inexperienced KM is better than a 3rd year LD. That kid just doesn't seem to get it.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I think UNC's issues are less about chemistry and more about experienced leadership. I think this team has time to build that experienced leadership, but if the fan base remains as unstable and as blood thirsty as they currently are, then this can be another poor year.

The leadership needs to come in a couple of ways.

First, we need at least one guy who is capable of creating his own shot off of the dribble. Right now, HB hasn't shown the willingness to take his guy off the dribble. Until he is able to do this, he isn't an All-American and he isn't even All-ACC. What sets Lebron and Kobe apart from other NBA stars is their ability to do it all. Including scoring off the dribble when the team really needs a bucket.

Finally, the team needs confident leadership from the PG spot. Drew doesn't not appear to be able to recognize the opponents defense nor does he have ability to change his approach to attacking that defense. If UNC lacks the personnel to attack an offense off of the dribble, then the PG has to get the ball to his scorers so that they can score. The passes have to be on time and on target. To me, until HB completely develops his offensive skill-set, Kendall Marshall is the man to lead the offense. There maybe a bit of a learning curve before he finally gets it, but even an inexperienced KM is better than a 3rd year LD. That kid just doesn't seem to get it.

Doesn't leadership also need to come from the sidelines... before, during and after the games?