Quote Originally Posted by 3rdgenDukie View Post
Well, Gotti didn't take out Castellano either, technically. Tony's guys killed fat Dom, Tony ordered the hit that killed Phil's goomah, Tony curbed Koko personally. He started the hostilities.

Butchie didn't agree to take out Phil because Phil put a hit out on Tony, he agreed because he had failed to carry out that order to its completion and was worried that Phil was going to blame him. He certainly didn't hesitate to kill the #2 and #3 guys, and wasn't the least bit hesitant to start the war, though Albie was. Butch clearly didn't like Tony throughout the series, so I don't think it is remotely a far-fetched theory that elements of NY could easily have determined that T needed to go. They were obviously siphoning off huge amounts of cash from NJ while Tony was in hiding, so that is probably reason enough.

Of course, you also had Paulie, who T had mistreated and walked on until the final scene. And Patsy, whose brother Tony killed, and whom he obviously was treating with great suspicion. Carlo had flipped, so it may have made life easier for everyone if Tony was removed as a target for Fed pressure, which he was obviously about to become.

The point is, if it was obvious who had the motive and opportunity, you 'would hear it coming' and few folks would get whacked. In this regard, we were as blind as Tony.

Historically, many bosses have died in office. The slowdown in the last twenty years has more to do with the huge number that have been successfully prosecuted and the general dispersal and reduction in power of LCN, than any huge increase in criminal morality or collegiality. Gotti was the last to ascend this way, but he was almost killed himself, and since then the bosses have been going to jail more often than getting gunned down.

As far as unpunished attempts on T's life, what exactly was June's?
1. If fat Dom is the guy who preceeded Phil, I'm reasonably certain that Phil took him out, not Tony. If fat Dom is somebody else, who is he in relation to Carmine's crew? I don't remember. After what Koko did to Tony's daughter, Butchie would have done the same exact thing. If Koko was twice his size, Butchie would have hit the guy over the head with a beer bottle and knocked his teeth out his own self.

2. Phil was a completely delusional, narcassist who had and was continuing to put everyone in the NY mob in danger. Butchie, in particular, who when he asked for a sit down with Phil so he could find out what was in it for him to run such risks got hung up on. Now, if you think that this guy was interested in running not only the entire NY thing but the NJ thing too for a few extra bucks, that's your theory. Butchie showed not the slightest inclination to be the king of even one hill, much less two. Why didn't he take out Tony first, by the way, in your opinion. Do you think Phil was wrong in believing it was purposeful? If so, your theory is all wet. If not, your theory is all wet since Butchie was one real dumb mobster, we're talkin real dumb.

Butchie was so wedded to the rules that he would not go against Phil himself; was willing to pay Tony. Why? Because, killing a boss makes you fair game for your subordinates, undermines everything the "thing" is built upon.

Phil had ordered Tony dead, had had his brother-in-law and Sil, his underboss, taken out; this goomay thing was necessary collateral damage to a guy doing what he had to. (have to admit, I didn't get that the daughter of the guy who they thought was Phil was actually Phil's goomay, but now, with your insistence, I can see it. (That entire scenario was not one of Chase's high points).

3. Patsy's son was marrying Meadow. Next. You don't take out the Boss in front of your future daughter-in-law's family, not to mention your daughter-in-law herself, unless you are certifiable.

4. What in heaven's name did Paulie have to gain by killing the one friend he had left on da earth? Phil had mentored Tony and in recent times told T his deepest secrets. That scene in front of the pizza joint was priceless. Sidesplitting too. In his darker moments, Paulie was capable of anything; near miniacal. But only near and he would never off Tony out of rage. Besides, he had nothing but love for the guy during the end game with Phil. That was left ambiguous until the last two episodes, but they made it clear.

5. Paulie also had no reason whatever to want Tony gone at that moment. He didn't even want the added cash from the waterfront, which Tony handed to him on a silver platter. And, when the Feds came down on T's mob, way better from Paulie's perspective to have T there calling the shots; Paulie was crude and an animal, but he wasn't stupid. He don't kill Tony that night in a million years.

June? "There was a man from another galaxy," June? That's your example? Maybe Artie did it because of the fire? Hired somebody to tail AJ so . . . . Please, Tony survived that night.

BTW, we are not talking the last twenty years; rather the last 60. And there almost always is a business reason, whether it's within the rules or not. Even for Gallo that was the case, and he Was crazy.