Hendo to be suspended?

[WiJoe]

not sure if this will work, but here's the schnoz.

can be seen at thred titled: "Mr Hansbrough's nose not broken"

http://espn-ak.starwave.com/photo/20...brough_412.jpg

[A-Tex Devil]

Whatever, dude. No problem with TH still in the game. If he wants to go up and fight for the offensive board, win it and then take it back up for the dunk in the last 20 seconds of a lst game, Duke can at least defend him, right?

The elbow was an A-C-C-I-D-E-N-T by a guy playing the same interior defense he was playing all night. If it happens with 8 minutes left in the first half, TH is just crying, not crying and trying to pretend he's gonna fight someone. It sucks it happened, but b-ball is physical.

But yes... I'll offer a conditional apology... "I sincerely apologize if it is true our guy tried to hurt yours." It's not true.

I feel bad Tyler got a bloody nose. The game didn't need it. But I'm not "apologetic" about it. I'm sure Hendu feels awful. Especially because he got a bullsh*t suspension out of it.

[RepoMan]

Word.

What Jumbo said.

Frankly, it was about time someone tried to aggressively contest the Heels superior interior play. That's not saying it was time to try to injure someone, but to make a physical play. We gave away far too many uncontested busckets. Henderson competed the whole game, and I hope this doesn't cause him to second guess himself.

[tommy]

That's plain silly. There would be no need for K to suspend GH, because he's already suspended by the league. But if you're seriously asserting that K "knew it was intentional," you've obviously never played any pickup or organized basketball, and probably haven't watched much either. That kind of thing happens ALL the time. It's called an accident. As far as coaches having class, the real opportunity to show some class is now Roy's. He is the one who knows the blow was NOT intentional. If he had some class, he would call the league office and tell them so, and urge they rescind any suspension.

[dukelifer]

I keep reading this biz about UNC shouldn't have had in their star player(s), or if so, that TH shouldn't have tried to dunk that late and up that much.

I regard all this about which opponent's players are still in the game,
and whether or not they try to pad a lead, is completely beside the point.

Frankly, it's the other team's business who they are play and what their players do as long as they do not physically hurt our team members. It's playground kid stuff to point the finger and say, well, so and so shouldn't have done this or done that. Pure kid stuff. If they try to pad a lead and show up their opponents, it may be poor sportsmanship--but our response should be "so what".

Bottom line IMO....and the only bottom line....is that there is never, EVER,
any place in sports for intentionally harming another player. NEVER.

I have not seen and have no idea as to the specifics in this particular hit, so have no comment regarding Gerald.

But as fans of a university in whose honor and overall class we believe in like I think we all believe in Duke....it should be below us and below Duke even to suggest that any kind of intentional physical assault on another player, if it did happen, was justified because that player should not have been in or should not have tried to score. That is zero excuse.

I believe we and Duke would be far better served if DBR fans offer instead a conditional apology....that we sincerely apologize if it is true our guy tried to hurt yours. Period.

A simple apology, even a conditional one depending on the facts, goes much farther than trying to make a defense through any kind of "you were wrong, too."

By going up in that situation, TH intended to score when he could have held the ball. GH intended to swat the BALL not TH. By TH going up and GH swatting down- an accident happen. Nobody intended to get hurt or hurt someone. If TH goes up and try to score in that situation- then GH can swat it back. No apologies because that is basketball. But just as TH should NOT have gone up- GH could have stayed put. It was a bang- bang play. Both players paid a price for their mistakes. TH got his face bloodied and GH got suspended. GH ultimately got the worse of it and so did Duke. TH will get some tender loving care from some coed and be the front story on ESPN and GH will be labeled a thug for just doing what 99% of all players would do in that situation- block a shot of a player trying to score up by 12 with 20 seconds to go and the game in hand. TH got hurt and nobody wants to see that- but it was an accident resulting from the intentional act to block a shot- pure and simple.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

First of all, let me say how much I have enjoyed and respected this site over the years, despite being a Chapel Hill undergrad and an unabashed Tar Heel fan. It has routinely been the first website I go to each morning because (a) it consistently has well written ACC basketball news/opinions and (b) it includes coverage of the Heels (largely objective, which is hard to find on school-specific websites). I have even found the message board to be meaningfull, although that the quality of the posts has been diliuted over the past year or so. It certainly is still above the quality of thought of the Inside Carolina boards (a slight compliment to many of you, I'm sure), but it is slipping. That said, I have continued to find value in checking out the Duke fan perspective on things. I think (most) Duke and Carolina fans truly appreciate the nuances of the game.

I have never taken the time to register until now. First, it has been a long time coming. Second, the end of the game today certainly fired me up, which leads to the following observations (excuse the length, but I could easily have written much more):

5. All this stuff on the boards about "what was Hansbrough doing in there with UNC leading by 12" is both hindsight and ridiculous. First off, 12 points is hardly clear-the-bench time, especially considering Duke and its 3-point firepower are on the other side. Secondly, one thing I feel very confident everyone on this board believes is that Hansbrough plays very hard and doesn't take plays off. Although this is obviously speculative, I don't think Hansbrough went into that rebound and shot thinking he was following up to rub it in. The references to the "NC State punch" are absurd.

Those are my thoughts.

First, welcome to the board. Over the years there have been several carolina fans who have been semi-regular posters (spcifically thinking about our favorite fisherman, Wheat) and we welcome reasonable, intelligent visiting posters with open arms.

As for point 5 above, when you led by 12 with about 1:30 left, I certainly didn't think the game was over and I'm sure K didn't either. I remember our "gone in 54 seconds game" vs. Maryland when we scored 10 points in the last 54 seconds to tie it, and then win it in overtime. I remember (gag, choke, cough) the 8 points in 17 seconds game in Carmichael in 1974, when you tied it without the benefit of the three point shot. I remember 1995, the "Capel shot game" in Cameron, when Capel's 3 not only tied it at the end of the first OT, but capped a 10 point comeback in 17 seconds (you won it in the second OT). Duke and carolina both have a long history of titanic comebacks in the last few seconds of a game.

Duke's recent "motis operendi" when having significant leads in the last minute of the game, whether the starters are in or walkons, is to dribble out near mid court to run the time off, and not shoot unless the shot clock was getting ready to expire. I'm not talking about "stall ball" in semi-close games as a long-term offensive strategy with several minutes left (which everyone here knows I hate), but about not running up the score unnecessarily on a beaten opponent. We even had early season games this year where we came close to breaking the 100 point level, but the walkons dribbled out near the midcourt line rather than try to score - per K's instructions, to the minor chagrin of fans who like to see that triple digit score. Of course, we don't have a deal with Bojangles either And quite honestly, I'm not anymore hurt losing by 18 than I am by losing by 12, or 5, so running the score up by second line players, or young players trying to learn their way does not bother me.

In the end, with 15 seconds left and the lead at 12, if TH had passed out to the wing when he grabbed that last rebound, his shnoz wouldn't look like Ol' Deano's tonight. But I don't think that Gerald Henderson intentionally smacked him in the nose. That's not in his character. Accidents happen in the heat of battle, and both players were playing hard when it was time to back off.

[Susan]

Did anyone watch College Gamenight tonight and hear Len Elmore's thoughts? He thinks Henderson not only should have been suspended for one game, but he thinks he ought to have to sit out if Duke HAPPENS to play UNC again in the ACC tourney final. Now THERE's a thought. (An idiotic one...)

[gdsballer]

Here's a thought: The foul wasn't on Henderson in the first place. It would've been on Johnson if Henderson hadn't gone up to block the shot. I was at the game, and it was for the own well-being of either Henderson, the Duke players and staff, or the referees that he was tossed, because there would have(not might have) been a riot. The crowd was about to blow during the few minutes while the refs discussed, and being a Duke fan, I was honestly too scared to say a word. Smart call by the refs in regard to safety, not in regard it really should have been called.

[crimsonandblue]

Longar Longar Suspension

The link above is to the Big XII's enforcement action of a 2 game suspension to Longar Longar for swinging an elbow to clear some space out on the wing and striking a Texas Tech player in the face. It was deemed unintentional, but still a violation sufficient to support the suspension.

I can see that in this case. It seemed to me that Henderson went up with the intent to make a hard foul and/or crushing block and did not much care where the ball was. To me, that indifference and going high on someone is the type of play that can't be allowed. I mean, safeties in football aren't allowed to do what Henderson did and intent doesn't matter there either.

I disagree with Jumbo that this is an everyday play. That kind of act on a pickup court will lead to a fight 99 percent of the time. That's assuming the guy getting smashed can stand up and walk.

I've never seen this board like this. Polls of "Who's your favorite player NOW?" Heh heh. Wink wink. Cracking on Hansbrough for crying? Uh, have you ever been whacked across the bridge of the nose? Your eyes involuntarily water and Hansbrough stood up, sucked up his own blood and walked off the court. The guy's anything but a crybaby. He's a complete tool, but no puss.

Unbelievable that I've been put in a position of defending UNC. Just sickening.

[HK Dukie]

well crimson, I voted for Henderson...first because of the way he played in the first 39 minutes, 45 seconds, and second because well, you know.

someone on this board made a good point about safety. I have no problem with the refs ejecting Henderson in an already decided game with just 15 seconds left. What I do have a problem with is them impacting the next game for Duke, because of their fear doing the right thing. This is just an example where the rule just isn't fair.

But like I said earlier, let's just use this as a rallying cry. The whole world seems out for blood anyway, especially those in the media, the entire season long. They think we are done. Boy, are they wrong.

[Jumbo]

I disagree with Jumbo that this is an everyday play. That kind of act on a pickup court will lead to a fight 99 percent of the time. That's assuming the guy getting smashed can stand up and walk.

We'll have to agree to disagree, then. Again, I can't tell you how many times I've been on either side of that, let alone been on the court when that has happened. Everything is just more intense when you have guys of this size and strength playing. But in a game where stray elbows are facts of life and players wind up for emphatic blocks, incidents like these are standard operating procedure.
It's much more obvious when a player is actually trying to hurt another one. Usually it involves using both arms (which Gerald didn't do) or actually grabbing hold of a guy, usually from behind (which Gerald also didn't do). The reverse-angle replay clinches it for me. It's just so clear what happened as a result of Johnson batting the ball away.

[Son of Jarhead]

Welcome to the forum, Overt Heelfan. Reasonable & civil fans of any team are always good to have around. Keep posting. I hope all will respond in kind.

The stuff about what players were still in the game are pointless. Both had some starters in. Both kept playing until the very end. Hans kept playing, I doubt he has it in his nature to stop. I think he gets away with too much pushing & shoving, and the simple fact that he plays for unc makes him annoying, but I don't think he did anything wrong here. As for his crying, I wouldn't call it that. Rather, I think his eyes watered, as anybody's would when in pain, and the blood pouring into his mouth made it appear as though his lip were quivering. I have had the exact same thing happen to me. No fun.
On G's actions, I see no reason to think it was in any way intentional. He kept playing hard to the end, just like Hans. It was, in my opinion, simply an accident. He looked a liitle shocked to me as he left the court. I hate that the refs made an error in terming it as a 'combative foul', but not much we can do about that now. What I hate more is how the media will twist this around to raise their ratings or readership. The less civil fans of the world (like those at IC, perhaps) will eat it up. I do think that the players involved have already talked, and let's not forget that G and Ellington are close friends, so everything is probably fine between the players. And the coaches have undoubtedly done the same, as they like and respect one another. I only wish the fans all had the same respect for one another.

Go Duke!!!!

[ChiDevil]

I see an unquestionable accident. I checked out the UNC boards, and they see an unabashed attempt to break TH's nose ("G's eyes were closed in anticipation of impact"). We're going to see what we want to see. That's part of the fun of being rabid fans. I hope TH is OK. I hope GH is OK. I don't expect any sympathy or understanding from UNC fans, but I hope the players and coaches can all get it together in time for the ACC tourney. NCAA basketball is just better when Duke and UNC are both playing well wihtout any excuses!

As for the "he shouldn't have been in" discussion . . . . I shudder to think of the day when teams start pulling their starters out against us!!!! Leave 'em in as long as you want.

GO DUKE!

[shadycharacter]

Good post, I agree.

When both teams are still playing hard, and there is any possbility the behind team could catch up, to me it's something of an insult to the behind team if the ahead team pulls its starters. As if to say, "you guys aren't good enough to be any threat to us."

[devilish]

To quote Carlton Tudor in the News and Observer:

"To me, it looked like a cheap shot by Henderson, and I didn't see anything on television replays to change my mind.

Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski said it wasn't intentional, which is no doubt correct in the sense that it wasn't premeditated. There's no way that Henderson waded through more than 39 minutes of playing time waiting for just the right moment to rip open the nose of the archrival's superstar.

But Henderson's hit was so aggressive and so obviously directed toward Hansbrough's face that it's only right a heavy punishment should be handed out."

I'm just wondering Carlton, how do you give an unintentional cheap shot?

Link: http://www.newsobserver.com/758/story/549891.html

[devildownunder]

Did anyone watch College Gamenight tonight and hear Len Elmore's thoughts? He thinks Henderson not only should have been suspended for one game, but he thinks he ought to have to sit out if Duke HAPPENS to play UNC again in the ACC tourney final. Now THERE's a thought. (An idiotic one...)

It that's the case then that is absurd. I have come to LE's defense many times on this board but after reading this, if this is indeed what he said, I must conclude that he has lost his objectivity with respect to the blue devils. That's really sad because he seems to be an intelligent man.

[devildownunder]

And yet, we always do dribble out the clock in the final minutes. It's a difference in philosophy, I understand. But one way to avoid potentially fiery incidents is to not try to run up the score against a rival when the game is clearly over.

I've never been rational about those unc games. Seriously. I may need help.

[devildownunder]

we are catching a lot of heat on espn radio about the play.

dth.

Of course we are. Duke is the most hated sports program/franchise in north america today, with the possible exception of the yankees. And all of the people who live to see us lose are loving this (bogus) opportunity to label us thugs and cheapshot artists.

I just hope GH can channel all of the venom he's going to have directed his way over the next 2 or three years into a stellar career at Duke. He has to develop a thick skin to survive.

[feldspar]

I've never seen this board like this. Polls of "Who's your favorite player NOW?" Heh heh. Wink wink. Cracking on Hansbrough for crying? Uh, have you ever been whacked across the bridge of the nose? Your eyes involuntarily water and Hansbrough stood up, sucked up his own blood and walked off the court. The guy's anything but a crybaby. He's a complete tool, but no puss.

Unbelievable that I've been put in a position of defending UNC. Just sickening.

A-freaking-men.

[feldspar]

We'll have to agree to disagree, then. Again, I can't tell you how many times I've been on either side of that, let alone been on the court when that has happened. Everything is just more intense when you have guys of this size and strength playing. But in a game where stray elbows are facts of life and players wind up for emphatic blocks, incidents like these are standard operating procedure.
It's much more obvious when a player is actually trying to hurt another one. Usually it involves using both arms (which Gerald didn't do) or actually grabbing hold of a guy, usually from behind (which Gerald also didn't do). The reverse-angle replay clinches it for me. It's just so clear what happened as a result of Johnson batting the ball away.

I don't think anyone is arguing that Gerald was trying to hurt TH, though Jumbo. I think the point is that it's quite obvious that Henderson wanted to foul TH, and foul him hard. Or, at the VERY least, block the ball right back into his face with the force of all the frustration he must have been feeling.

This thing turns out way differently if that ball doesn't come loose. But it did, and GH needs to face the consequences of that - and on some level so do all of us as Duke fans.

This was no normal shot block attempt, and if you fancy yourself any type of objective basketball analyst, I think you will admit that. It was an overly aggressive move that was punished by an overly aggressive sentence.