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  1. #221

    Reality and Perception

    While I'm in agreement with the assertion that one doesn't have to have been good at doing something to tell someone else how best to do that same thing. There's a reason, after all, why Coach K was never throwing down nasty dunks in the lane or zipping crazy passes a-la Nash in the league. He just wasn't good enough. That wasn't his skillset...coaching was.

    Anyway, interesting that Mitch McGary notes the Duke/big-man perception in his blog..http://espn.go.com/blog/high-school/...os-d-day-looms

    It's unfortunate that the perception exits, but it does. As he says, "The con for Duke would be the perception that all their big men do is set screens and rebound and that they donít get a lot of touches. "

    My apologies if that had been posted already. The perception is there whether we like it or not. It seems to me that the argument shouldn't be about whether Wojo can coach that spot but about how best to allay the concerns (right or wrong) of any current and future recruits.

    On a side note, my mother is convinced that Shelden Williams tore my retina in a summer pick-up game. I don't think so but, whatever the cause, we contributed an awful lot to the Duke eye center that year.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    Whoa. I never considered this before. Tell us more.
    As a man who is rarely brought to laughter by the written word, I can say: Well played sir.

    (Or in short-form, modern English: lol!)

  3. #223
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    While I'm in agreement with the assertion that one doesn't have to have been good at doing something to tell someone else how best to do that same thing. There's a reason, after all, why Coach K was never throwing down nasty dunks in the lane or zipping crazy passes a-la Nash in the league. He just wasn't good enough. That wasn't his skillset...coaching was.

    Anyway, interesting that Mitch McGary notes the Duke/big-man perception in his blog..http://espn.go.com/blog/high-school/...os-d-day-looms

    It's unfortunate that the perception exits, but it does. As he says, "The con for Duke would be the perception that all their big men do is set screens and rebound and that they donít get a lot of touches. "

    My apologies if that had been posted already. The perception is there whether we like it or not. It seems to me that the argument shouldn't be about whether Wojo can coach that spot but about how best to allay the concerns (right or wrong) of any current and future recruits.

    On a side note, my mother is convinced that Shelden Williams tore my retina in a summer pick-up game. I don't think so but, whatever the cause, we contributed an awful lot to the Duke eye center that year.
    I know the Coach K faithful don't want to admit that Wojo is not the perfect big man coach, but maybe he isn't. Not every big man is enamored by becoming a rebounder/scorer for a guard dominated lineup. Thankfully, Coach Capel will hopefully change that perception. Already we are seeing Mason, Miles, and Kelly all regularly scoring in double digits. I don't think there were many games last year that even one of them, let alone two scored in double digits.

  4. #224
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by loldevilz View Post
    I know the Coach K faithful don't want to admit that Wojo is not the perfect big man coach, but maybe he isn't. Not every big man is enamored by becoming a rebounder/scorer for a guard dominated lineup.
    Except that doesn't have anything to do with the big man coach. It has to do with the composition of the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by loldevilz View Post
    Thankfully, Coach Capel will hopefully change that perception. Already we are seeing Mason, Miles, and Kelly all regularly scoring in double digits. I don't think there were many games last year that even one of them, let alone two scored in double digits.
    How can Coach Capel change things when Wojo (and not Capel) is still the big man coach? Since Wojo is actually coaching our big men (and not Capel), why are you attributing Mason's, Miles's, and Ryan's exhibition game scoring totals to Coach Capel and not Coach Wojo?

    And, finally, why should Jeff Capel change perceptions when he was a point guard, too?

  5. #225
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Except that doesn't have anything to do with the big man coach. It has to do with the composition of the team.



    How can Coach Capel change things when Wojo (and not Capel) is still the big man coach? Since Wojo is actually coaching our big men (and not Capel), why are you attributing Mason's, Miles's, and Ryan's exhibition game scoring totals to Coach Capel and not Coach Wojo?

    And, finally, why should Jeff Capel change perceptions when he was a point guard, too?
    It has nothing to do with the composition of the team. There is a great article about Mason Plumlee that I read a week ago that talked about how at the beginning of last year in the locker room the coaches were stressing to get Mason the ball, we want him to score and to get touches, but by the end of the year the vibe was totally different, it was all about screening and rebounding. Mason just wasn't prepared to be that type of player. Already this year there have been major improvements. Mason is 14/14 and looks dominant at times. In fact Kelly, Mason, and Miles all look good and all deserve to start and that has nothing to do with the composition of the team.

    Also great point about Coach Capel not coaching the big men. I'm sure he's just goofing around all day with Collins and Spatola playing Coaches vs Alumni games.

  6. #226
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northern VA
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    While I'm in agreement with the assertion that one doesn't have to have been good at doing something to tell someone else how best to do that same thing. There's a reason, after all, why Coach K was never throwing down nasty dunks in the lane or zipping crazy passes a-la Nash in the league. He just wasn't good enough. That wasn't his skillset...coaching was.

    Anyway, interesting that Mitch McGary notes the Duke/big-man perception in his blog..http://espn.go.com/blog/high-school/...os-d-day-looms

    It's unfortunate that the perception exits, but it does. As he says, "The con for Duke would be the perception that all their big men do is set screens and rebound and that they don’t get a lot of touches. "

    My apologies if that had been posted already. The perception is there whether we like it or not. It seems to me that the argument shouldn't be about whether Wojo can coach that spot but about how best to allay the concerns (right or wrong) of any current and future recruits.
    There will be that perception rumored about as long as there are those who have a vested intesrest in perpetuating it -- whether they come from competing recruiters/coaches, or competing fans or just old Duke 'haters.' Not that you have to be one of those groups to have that opinion, but there are certainly folks in those groups trying hard to perpetuate it.

    If you had to be good at something before you could opine and eduacate others on it, then about 99% of sports media personnel would be out of jobs! (and over half of coaches!) BTW, anybody know how tall the UNC big-man coach is, and how much front-line play he had? Hint: shorter than Wojo and he had significantly fewer rebounds! But perception is still perception, whether true or not. Bunda is right - it is the perception that needs to be addressed somehow.
    -BDBD

  7. #227
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by -bdbd View Post
    There will be that perception rumored about as long as there are those who have a vested intesrest in perpetuating it -- whether they come from competing recruiters/coaches, or competing fans or just old Duke 'haters.' Not that you have to be one of those groups to have that opinion, but there are certainly folks in those groups trying hard to perpetuate it.

    If you had to be good at something before you could opine and eduacate others on it, then about 99% of sports media personnel would be out of jobs! (and over half of coaches!) BTW, anybody know how tall the UNC big-man coach is, and how much front-line play he had? Hint: shorter than Wojo and he had significantly fewer rebounds! But perception is still perception, whether true or not. Bunda is right - it is the perception that needs to be addressed somehow.
    "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach." Yeah, it's a cliche, but cliches come from somewhere. (PS I'm a teacher, and I'm only half serious anyway, so other educators please don't jump on me.)

  8. #228
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    North Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by MCFinARL View Post
    "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach." Yeah, it's a cliche, but cliches come from somewhere. (PS I'm a teacher, and I'm only half serious anyway, so other educators please don't jump on me.)
    I think the "perception" will take a serious hit when we have some sustained superior post play. This speaks to the point I was making earlier in this thread that now is the time for our bigs to "walk the walk".

  9. #229

    Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by loldevilz View Post
    Mason is 14/14 and looks dominant at times.
    Dominant? Really? I guess we all have different thresholds for defining "dominant". Not that Mason is NOT capable of it. Time will tell. Starting tomorrow.

  10. #230
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by wilko View Post
    ... This speaks to the point I was making earlier in this thread that now is the time for our bigs to "walk the walk".
    You mean like Hansbrough? There the appropriate term would be "shuffle and shuffle." (And then make a confused pouty face and whine)

  11. #231
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    North Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    You mean like Hansbrough? There the appropriate term would be "shuffle and shuffle." (And then make a confused pouty face and whine)
    Heh... you say that like he got caught or something...
    I for one, am not too proud to take any "perceived advantage" we may get.
    If they let guys travel for the other team then they gotta let ours travel too.

  12. #232
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by SCMatt33 View Post
    You know, this got me thinking. We should leave Wojo as the big man coach, but try to hire Len Elmore to coach the guards. That way, they'll never get tired legs at the end of the year. It's perfect.
    I think we should go out and get George Muresan as the big man coach. Or maybe Shawn Bradley. Let's get the tallest man possible just so we can prove once and for all that there is no correlation between height and big man coaching skills.

    Super "Either would be more tolerable than Elmore" Dave

  13. #233
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Jacksonville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by SCMatt33 View Post
    You know, this got me thinking. We should leave Wojo as the big man coach, but try to hire Len Elmore to coach the guards. That way, they'll never get tired legs at the end of the year. It's perfect.
    I love that idea. We'll get Doug Gotlieb to coach the alarmingly unathletic big men so that will make them, according to K even more athletic than they aren't.
    http://www.dukesportsblog.com/

    Twitter: @MikeKlineDSB

    Facebook: Duke Sports Blog

  14. #234
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    Sep 2008
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    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by loldevilz View Post
    Also great point about Coach Capel not coaching the big men. I'm sure he's just goofing around all day with Collins and Spatola playing Coaches vs Alumni games.
    My understanding is Coach Capel is coaching the big men approximately the same amount Chris Collins is coaching the big men -- they're both coaches but when it comes time to work on big man stuff, Wojo is the guy.

    Here's what I don't get about your stated position: you say our big men have improved (and they have), but why are you attributing that improvement to Coach Capel and not Coach Wojo (who, after all, is the big man coach)?

    Finally, you still haven't explained why you think Jeff Capel, a former Duke point guard, is a more acceptable big man coach than Steve Wojciechowski, a former Duke point guard? Because of all that posting up Jeff did while playing point at Duke?

  15. #235
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    Feb 2007
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    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by mkline09 View Post
    I love that idea. We'll get Doug Gotlieb to coach the alarmingly unathletic big men so that will make them, according to K even more athletic than they aren't.
    Buddy, err, Reggie Love will be available next year. He played "center" for us at times. What about him? Is he tall enough? Is he unathletic enough?

  16. #236

    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by wilko View Post
    I think the "perception" will take a serious hit when we have some sustained superior post play. This speaks to the point I was making earlier in this thread that now is the time for our bigs to "walk the walk".
    I agree with this. "Perception" is certainly something that can be changed. Having one of our current or future bigs get a lot of press through consistent stellar play would certainly help. (Even though all of us would point to Williams, Boozer, Brand as a pretty incredible string of big men). Having another Duke big man find significant success in the NBA would contribute. I imagine having Capel on staff has helped.


    I also seem to remember Coach K making an effort in recent years to make the program and the team more accessible to combat the rampant (and absurd) Duke hate. This certainly suggests that Coach and the staff are cognizant of the impact of perception and are forward thinking enough to counter it. It's hard to imagine them recruiting for any other reason than because a kid fits the program needs but it certainly could on some small level explain the extra effort Coach has been pouring into guys like Parker.

  17. #237
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    Feb 2007
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    Whoa. I never considered this before. Tell us more.
    Hilarious, thanks I needed that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    Not only an old argument, but the horse was beaten to death, trampled upon, beaten some more, then stuck in a closet where he could be brought out and beaten again when needed
    Don't know if you heard, but there was a guy with a stick hiding in that closet and ....

  18. #238
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    Feb 2007
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    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by devildeac View Post
    Buddy, err, Reggie Love will be available next year. He played "center" for us at times. What about him? Is he tall enough? Is he unathletic enough?
    White House to Duke bench.

    Lateral move?

  19. #239
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Washington, D.C.

    Another name?

    Quote Originally Posted by devildeac View Post
    Buddy, err, Reggie Love will be available next year. He played "center" for us at times. What about him? Is he tall enough? Is he unathletic enough?
    Why doesn't Coach K go after Dwight Howard's high school coach? He's got to be one of the best big men coaches in the last 30 years.
    Last edited by MChambers; 11-10-2011 at 04:24 PM. Reason: fixed typo in "Coach"

  20. #240
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Lincoln Ne

    clever

    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    Why doesn't Coach K go after Dwight Howard's high school coach? He's got to be one of the best big men coaches in the last 30 years.
    funny

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