UNC Scandal latest

[JasonEvans]

Sigh, is this even news any more?

Apparently John Blake began steering players to Gary Wichard while he was coach at Oklahoma. Among them, former NCAA and NFL star Brian Bosworth (who would be a very lucrative client for an agent). Bosworth is quote in the story--

“John said to me, ‘Hey, I’ve set a meeting up with a guy who I really think you need to know, because he’s going to change your world, ’ ” Bosworth said. “The only way Gary Wichard got to me was through John Blake. John made it clear that Gary was the only guy I needed to be with. Every meeting that I had with Gary was set up by John. John would even pick me up and take me there, whether it was at a hotel or whatever.

“You have to understand, John was the eyes inside the locker room. He was the fisherman and Gary was the cook. You’ve got to have somebody out there who is going to get the bounty, and Gary’s the one who then goes and sells the bounty. I don’t understand why they would be trying to skirt the truth on that. That is what it was. It was so blatant. … And I know I wasn’t the only player who saw it."

--Jason "the fact that this is not shocking anymore is just sad" Evans

[SCMatt33]

NFL star Brian Bosworth

That's just too funny. Maybe we should ask Bo Jackson about that one.

[SuperTurkey]

That's just too funny. Maybe we should ask Bo Jackson about that one.

Bo knows Boz.

[JasonEvans]

Well, from the standpoint of an agent, Boz was a huge NFL star because he signed the biggest rookie contract in NFL history in 1987 -- 11 million for 10 years. I am sure Wichard made a pretty penny off Boz and having Boz on your list of clients gives you big-time credibility with other college football stars.

Also, an actual update to the Carolina scandal...

You all have to read this story about Kendrick Burney. He was suspended for 6 games while the NCAA looked into money he got from an agent. They lifted that suspension but UNC uncovered some kind of academic problem with him too. The school found him guilty of cheating, or something like that, and gave him a failing grade in a class. As a result, he was not going to have enough classes to remain eligible. So, the school told him to just enroll in some class right now to get back on the football team...

...except it is the middle of the semester. How could anyone do actual classwork after missing the first 2 months of classes?

as the story leaked that UNC was letting this kid remain academically eligible, someone must have realized that it looked really bad because Carolina is reconsidering things now.

It is just so pathetic and funny that Carolina has turned into this wannabe football factory that does not even pretend to care about academics or ethics. I would be embarrassed if Duke ever stooped this low.

-Jason "just pathetic" Evans

[roywhite]

You all have to read this story about Kendrick Burney. He was suspended for 6 games while the NCAA looked into money he got from an agent. They lifted that suspension but UNC uncovered some kind of academic problem with him too. The school found him guilty of cheating, or something like that, and gave him a failing grade in a class. As a result, he was not going to have enough classes to remain eligible. So, the school told him to just enroll in some class right now to get back on the football team...

...except it is the middle of the semester. How could anyone do actual classwork after missing the first 2 months of classes?

as the story leaked that UNC was letting this kid remain academically eligible, someone must have realized that it looked really bad because Carolina is reconsidering things now.

It is just so pathetic and funny that Carolina has turned into this wannabe football factory that does not even pretend to care about academics or ethics. I would be embarrassed if Duke ever stooped this low.

-Jason "just pathetic" Evans

Yep, it looks like damage control 24x7 is the order of the day on the Hill.

[left_hook_lacey]

I'm not even sure how I feel about this anymore. Every time something new comes out, there is so much secrecy and hear-say about what is going on behind the scenes, it makes me not even care anymore. Obviously, there was some very dirty things going on, but the layers to the story and the level of involvement is so unclear, that it's hard to know what the real truth is and who was really involved. I'm just ready for them to hand out punishments so I can point fingers at them and laugh. It's to the point that it's becoming a distraction from the season IMO.

[OldPhiKap]

At the beginning of this, I was pretty sure that Butch would be gone but nothing above his level.

I would not feel comfortable if I were the AD or even the Chancellor at this point.

[PADukeMom]

Jason...I agree with you. I'm at the point where I don't really care but I know I should.

[camion]

Every time I hear something new about the UNC debacle I have to remind myself that this isn't Kentucky we're talking about. As my parents would say, "UNC, I'm very disappointed in you."

[JasonEvans]

Every time I hear something new about the UNC debacle I have to remind myself that this isn't Kentucky we're talking about. As my parents would say, "UNC, I'm very disappointed in you."

This is the saddest part. UNC is not an SEC school or one of those ACC schools that have a bit of history of cheating in certain circumstances (like Clemson, Miami, and a couple others). UNC has always been a bastion of integrity and a school that genuinely prided itself on things like graduation rates and ethics.

The stink from this will last for a while too. Getting a clean rep after you have been dirty is really, really hard to do.

-Jason "so sad and embarrassing... sigh" Evans

[oldnavy]

At the beginning of this, I was pretty sure that Butch would be gone but nothing above his level.

I would not feel comfortable if I were the AD or even the Chancellor at this point.

My delussional UNC friend bet me a couple of six packs that Butch Davis would not lose his job over this. He says that the UNC fan base is 80% behind Davis and that he will get another chance. He claims that the only thing UNC cares more about than their reputation is the bottom line and that football was going to be a big money maker for them. He says they have already invested too much into the infrastructure to turn back now. What would that say about UNC? To me it would be a clear indication that they had sold out if Davis survives.

[Acymetric]

My delussional UNC friend bet me a couple of six packs that Butch Davis would not lose his job over this. He says that the UNC fan base is 80% behind Davis and that he will get another chance. He claims that the only thing UNC cares more about than their reputation is the bottom line and that football was going to be a big money maker for them. He says they have already invested too much into the infrastructure to turn back now. What would that say about UNC? To me it would be a clear indication that they had sold out if Davis survives.

Here's what I don't understand about this. Seems to me you should still fire Davis, and if the school still wants big time football go out and hire another guy...throw enough money out there and it'll stick to someone.

But why is retaining Butch necessary to continue building a football program? I've seen unc fans say things like that over and over, and it just doesn't make sense to me. Get rid of him and bring in another big name with a better reputation for running clean programs.

[oldnavy]

Here's what I don't understand about this. Seems to me you should still fire Davis, and if the school still wants big time football go out and hire another guy...throw enough money out there and it'll stick to someone.

But why is retaining Butch necessary to continue building a football program? I've seen unc fans say things like that over and over, and it just doesn't make sense to me. Get rid of him and bring in another big name with a better reputation for running clean programs.

I agree with you, but in my friends twisted logic, he doesn't think UNC will be able to attract another high level coach. Plus he says most everyone thinks Davis is a great guy and they like him. It seems to me that the fans that think they need to keep him are falling for the rationalization arguments (everyone's doing it, Butch didn't know...) and not taking a step back to see what it would really mean for the university.

Question: Would it be worse if Butch really didn't know? What I mean is, this guy is getting millions of dollars a year to ensure that this type of thing doesn't happen. Is he in a defensible position by saying "I had no idea what my assistant head coach was doing"? To me that is worse or at least no better than turning a blind eye...

[wilko]

While I DO enjoy a good chuckle at the goings on in Blight Blue, there is another item to look at a deeper.

Surely UNC is not the only school doing this type of thing... While I have no proof and its only speculation and conjecture on my part, you'd have a hard time convincing me there is no funny business happening at Ala. Fla. Tx or fill in the blank with any Big-Time college football program. Call it intuition.

I may be a cynic, but I just don't think running a 100% "clean program" that wins consistently can be done.

I cant help but think that whatever sanctions the NCAA dishes out to UNC for their shenanigans... If it is overly harsh, I think it sets the bar for how good the ACC CAN EVER be as a football conference. It would establish the ACC as a 2nd tier football destination.

The NCAA needs to drop the hammer on everyone uniformly, or the ACC has to figure out how to be better cheaters in football.

Don't get me wrong, I'm OK with that outcome. My feeling right now is if we cant be then everyone should stink it up equally with us.

I know lots of you will vehemently disagree and that's fine. But I think we can agree that its fun to watch them burn and fester.

[Jderf]

While I DO enjoy a good chuckle at the goings on in Blight Blue, there is another item to look at a deeper.

Surely UNC is not the only school doing this type of thing... While I have no proof and its only speculation and conjecture on my part, you'd have a hard time convincing me there is no funny business happening at Ala. Fla. Tx or fill in the blank with any Big-Time college football program. Call it intuition.

I may be a cynic, but I just don't think running a 100% "clean program" that wins consistently can be done.

I cant help but think that whatever sanctions the NCAA dishes out to UNC for their shenanigans... If it is overly harsh, I think it sets the bar for how good the ACC CAN EVER be as a football conference. It would establish the ACC as a 2nd tier football destination.

The NCAA needs to drop the hammer on everyone uniformly, or the ACC has to figure out how to be better cheaters in football.

Don't get me wrong, I'm OK with that outcome. My feeling right now is if we cant be then everyone should stink it up equally with us.

I know lots of you will vehemently disagree and that's fine. But I think we can agree that its fun to watch them burn and fester.

Wait, What? Are you suggesting that the Duke football program should follow suit and start cheating to get ahead? That is some strange advice -- advice that would most likely result in us moving backwards, not forwards. Even if you ignore the extremely obvious moral objections to your position, it is still not even a good idea from the practical point of view. Have you not noticed that the NCAA has been doing a little cracking down on cheaters lately? Dropping the hammer, as you say. Do you want to add Duke to the long list of top-tier programs that have been tainted?

You don't think consistent winning can be achieved without cheating? I assume you are only talking about football, since our basketball program has been pretty consistent while being one of the better-run programs in the country.

[wilko]

Wait, What? Are you suggesting that the Duke football program should follow suit and start cheating to get ahead? That is some strange advice -- advice that would most likely result in us moving backwards, not forwards. Even if you ignore the extremely obvious moral objections to your position, it is still not even a good idea from the practical point of view. Have you not noticed that the NCAA has been doing a little cracking down on cheaters lately? Dropping the hammer, as you say. Do you want to add Duke to the long list of top-tier programs that have been tainted?

No I'm not suggesting that Duke start cheating... not exactly...
If we are on the interstate, the posted limit is 70 mph.. But the flow of traffic is moving at a faster clip...

Are you content to get passed, or are you gonna drive with the pack?
You have a decision to make.

If you happen to pass multiple cars stopped by the police, then that decision gets a whole LOT easier to make. Its up to the NCAA to play the role of speed limit enforcer.

The cynic in me says Good-faith adherence to the rules is rare among top flight football schools.

If the NCAA doesn't enforce, or lacks the resources to have enough patrol cars to catch speeders speeding... then perhaps its time to rethink the whole notion of what is speeding actually is and make some new laws.

I assume you are only talking about football.

Correct, I didn't bring up basketball oncel. Different animal ENTIRELY.

[Jderf]

No I'm not suggesting that Duke start cheating... not exactly...
If we are on the interstate, the posted limit is 70 mph.. But the flow of traffic is moving at a faster clip...

Are you content to get passed, or are you gonna drive with the pack?
You have a decision to make.

If you happen to pass multiple cars stopped by the police, then that decision gets a whole LOT easier to make. Its up to the NCAA to play the role of speed limit enforcer.

The cynic in me says Good-faith adherence to the rules is rare among top flight football schools.

If the NCAA doesn't enforce, or lacks the resources to have enough patrol cars to catch speeders speeding... then perhaps its time to rethink the whole notion of what is speeding actually is and make some new laws.

Speeding is an interesting, though dangerous, analogy. Where in some cases the "everyone's doing it" defense could sound plausible (speeding; or downloading music), I don't think it is in any way reasonable as applied in this case. In those other cases, nobody is going to criticize your moral bearings for going 10 mph over the limit, or downloading Don Henley's greatest hits. But I think if any Duke athletic program ever got caught cheating, most Duke fans (myself included) would be absolutely horrified.

[JasonEvans]

I believe this is the story your friend was talking about when mentioning that no one connected to Blake had been named by Carolina to the NCAA. Your friend is faaar behind the times.

The information in the story I linked is in addition to the already known information about Wichard's relationship with several star UNC players. This is just extra icing on top of the Wichard cake, so to speak.

Now it makes sense.

--Jason "the Carolina case has been too high profile for the NCAA to not hit UNC hard" Evans

[Olympic Fan]

Just to follow up on what I posted earlier, it seems I was mistaken when I said Burney was found guilty of cheating and his only punishment was that he was given an F on the course and a slap-on-the-wirst probation.

It turns out that his penalty was a little lighter -- his grade on a writing course (earned by his tutor) was C. As punishment for cheating, Burney's grade was reduced to a C-minus ... no probation (I was right that one of the aspects of probation is that you can't represent the university while on probation ... I was wrong in that Burney did not get probation).

Burney will play this week.

BTW, this info comes from his father, according the the N&O:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/10/...to-return.html

I also like how his father said his son was "cleared" by the honor court.

Apparently, there are different definitions in Chapel Hill for words such as "cleared" and "honor".

[CameronBornAndBred]

It turns out that his penalty was a little lighter -- his grade on a writing course (earned by his tutor) was C. As punishment for cheating, Burney's grade was reduced to a C-minus ... no probation (I was right that one of the aspects of probation is that you can't represent the university while on probation ... I was wrong in that Burney did not get probation).

Burney will play this week.

Thanks for the update...that is absolutely disgusting. Ask Zack Asack how Burney would have fared at Duke.