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  1. #1
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    NCAA investigating Baylor

    I know there have been comments about this in the Quincy Miller recruiting thread (because Miller has listed Baylor as one of his final 3 schools -- along with Duke and Louisville), but I think it deserves its own thread.

    DBR has made mention of the deportation recruiting threat, but the NY Times has now jumped into the story and has a few more details, including the fact that Scott Drew is talking to a lawyer known for advising coaches who are in trouble with the NCAA.

    My question is why would a Baylor assistant resort to threats when recruiting a kid? How can he think that is a good way to win the confidence of the recruit or the recruit's high school coach? It really strikes me as dumb.

    Anyway, I am sure there will be more developments in this story over the next few weeks. Now we have a thread in which we can discuss them (for folks who have not read all 50+ pages of the QMiller thread).

    -Jason "I supposed we could put news on Lacederius Dunn's legal problems here too -- this can be the Bad News About Baylor discussion thread" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  2. #2
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    Wow-- as if on cue, the moment I start this thread we get new news about Dunn's situation. Baylor has cleared him to return to classes though not to return to the team... yet.

    As many of you all will recall, I predicted that Dunn would get little more than a slap on the wrist from Baylor and that the school would make sure it had him on the floor for all but a couple games of the season. Fellow DBR poster, wacobluedevil dissented and predicted more harsh punishment for Dunn.

    --Jason "We'll see, but little about Scott Drew tells me he has ethics as one of his core values in building the Baylor program" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Wow-- as if on cue, the moment I start this thread we get new news about Dunn's situation. Baylor has cleared him to return to classes though not to return to the team... yet.

    As many of you all will recall, I predicted that Dunn would get little more than a slap on the wrist from Baylor and that the school would make sure it had him on the floor for all but a couple games of the season. Fellow DBR poster, wacobluedevil dissented and predicted more harsh punishment for Dunn.

    --Jason "We'll see, but little about Scott Drew tells me he has ethics as one of his core values in building the Baylor program" Evans
    Not to turn this thread away from the recruiting investigation, but this does make you appreciate the way that Wake handled its business with Tony Woods. Of course Woods wasn't the team's best player and did have a criminal conviction, but it is nice to see a school not stand for that kind of behavior.

    As far as the recruiting violation goes, I can't help but think that there's more than just the text messages if the NCAA is coming to campus. I was though pleased to see this quote from the high school coach in the NY Times article:

    “My impression of the N.C.A.A. is that they’re making a very concentrated effort to understand the system better and employ people who actually understand what’s going on,” Huss said.

    “My impression is that they have a pretty good handle of what’s going on, and they’re trying to clean it up,” Huss said of N.C.A.A. investigations of men’s basketball programs.

    He added, “I was amazed at how well they seem to have a grasp at what’s going on.”
    It really does seem like the NCAA is finally taking its head out of the sand, and I like the new aggressive stance they're taking. Now if only they can only do something about Calipari...

  4. #4
    Statement from article :"Police say Dunn's girlfriend, Lacharlesla Edwards, had her jaw broken in two places Sept. 27. She says her jaw wasn't broken and Dunn didn't hit her. Edwards wants charges dropped and Dunn reinstated."

    Wow, it looks like Dunn told her to say he didn't hit her or there might be more to come......

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbnaylor View Post
    Statement from article :"Police say Dunn's girlfriend, Lacharlesla Edwards, had her jaw broken in two places Sept. 27. She says her jaw wasn't broken and Dunn didn't hit her. Edwards wants charges dropped and Dunn reinstated."

    Wow, it looks like Dunn told her to say he didn't hit her or there might be more to come......
    More like she realized that he is her gravy train and that if he is forced to miss a season because of this it will hurt his NBA stock.

    -Jason "battered women frequently refuse to blame their men and cover up for them" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    More like she realized that he is her gravy train and that if he is forced to miss a season because of this it will hurt his NBA stock.

    -Jason "battered women frequently refuse to blame their men and cover up for them" Evans
    Of course, those are two separate explanations. We have no idea what Charles is thinking, but the latter situation is certainly tragically common enough to explain all of her actions.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    More like she realized that he is her gravy train and that if he is forced to miss a season because of this it will hurt his NBA stock.

    -Jason "battered women frequently refuse to blame their men and cover up for them" Evans
    You're right, and just like the probable reason for the victim in the Dunn case changing the entire story, in the routine DV case, where the parties are not public figures, the most common reason why the victim changes the story and backs off of it or refuses to testify at all, is rooted in the financial. Usually, they need their man out of jail and to get back to work to put food on the table.

    However, it is not uncommon, in at least some jurisdictions, for the prosecution to move forward even without the cooperation of the victim, as when they have prior statements, medical records, statements to the treating doctor or nurses, 911 calls, etc. Who knows if that will happen here.

    But it was so predictable that Baylor would try to whitewash the whole thing. Somehow, before the police and prosecutors have made a judgment, Baylor has. The Baylor University Judicial Affairs Disciplinary Committee has already found Dunn "not guilty of assaulting a female which resulted in her jaw being broken." I'm shocked, just shocked.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    ... -Jason "I supposed we could put news on Lacederius Dunn's legal problems here too -- this can be the Bad News About Baylor discussion thread" Evans
    Baylor Bears? Bad News Bears? Come'on Jason, leave the really bad ones to the rest of us.

    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    ... The Baylor University Judicial Affairs Disciplinary Committee has already found Dunn "not guilty of assaulting a female which resulted in her jaw being broken." I'm shocked, just shocked.
    That is just sickening. I thought the lawyer admitted that Dunn punched her in the face. I read the victim required surgery for the injury. That isn't enough? Good God, can you believe Baylor has a law school?

    http://www.baylor.edu/law/

  9. #9
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    Posted this in the Dunn thread, but this threat of deportation text is real. Plus the assistant has been texting all through July which is a pretty egregious violation considering the message the NCAA sends to coaching staffs about this dark period. That guy is gone and I am betting this is the type of NCAA investigation where they turn up one rock looking for one thing and find another.

    If you think of Scott Drew as that nice Homer Drew's boy and Bryce Drew's brother, and that blessed soul that took over the crippled Baylor program and brought him to the elite 8, well, yeah, he's all that. But behind the scenes, he'll give Calipari, Tim Floyd, et al a run for their money in what hey'll do to get a recruit.

  10. #10
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    Two thoughts:

    1.) How in the world can there be a dispute over whether someone had a broken jaw or not. Some things are just facts. It shouldn't take but one journalist to come up with a definitive answer. But I guess now all information comes from statements handed to the media and twitter...so there are no more facts.

    2.) I don't know anything about Coach Drew, other than I was a fan of his dad. With that said, I am always skeptical when a new coach goes to a school that isn't a traditional power and starts pulling in top recruits, or at least appears on all the tops recruits lists. What could he be possibly be selling that is legitimate. It's one thing if a coach wins for awhile with mediocre recruits...say Pitt's Jamie Dixon. If he starts getting the McD's boys now, well I can see it. But if Drew is clean, what is with the sudden interest in Baylor over the past few seasons?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalBlue08 View Post
    But if Drew is clean, what is with the sudden interest in Baylor over the past few seasons?
    Come on, that's not fair. There can be a million reasons why people get interested in a up and coming young coach and program - he doesn't have to be dirty. He can be charismatic. He can point to the pedigree. He can be aggressive at recruiting without crossing the line (Billy Donovan was accused of skirting this line earlier in the decade when he was up and coming and pulling in big classes). Sometimes just "new" can be exciting.

    I might note that it was the assistant that wrote the disgusting text, not Drew himself. You can say the head coach should know what the assistant is doing, but that can't be true with respect to each and every text message.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkey View Post
    Come on, that's not fair. There can be a million reasons why people get interested in a up and coming young coach and program - he doesn't have to be dirty. He can be charismatic. He can point to the pedigree. He can be aggressive at recruiting without crossing the line (Billy Donovan was accused of skirting this line earlier in the decade when he was up and coming and pulling in big classes). Sometimes just "new" can be exciting.

    I might note that it was the assistant that wrote the disgusting text, not Drew himself. You can say the head coach should know what the assistant is doing, but that can't be true with respect to each and every text message.
    Maybe, but have you ever been to Waco?

    We'll see when the NCAA completes the investigation, but I suspect there's a lot more to come. Drew is responsible for setting the tone at the top, and thus accountable, in large part, for the compliance behavior of his staff. Can you imagine a Duke assistant doing something similar? NFW

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalBlue08 View Post
    2.) I don't know anything about Coach Drew, other than I was a fan of his dad. With that said, I am always skeptical when a new coach goes to a school that isn't a traditional power and starts pulling in top recruits, or at least appears on all the tops recruits lists. What could he be possibly be selling that is legitimate. It's one thing if a coach wins for awhile with mediocre recruits...say Pitt's Jamie Dixon. If he starts getting the McD's boys now, well I can see it. But if Drew is clean, what is with the sudden interest in Baylor over the past few seasons?
    Were you skeptical of Coach K? Did you assume that he did something illegal to pull in Dawkins and co? Although rare, a new coach pulling in talent does happen. I think Scott Drew is a good guy. Plus, can you imagine what the AD told Drew when he gave him the job? I would assume that losing would be preferred to winning coupled with illegal recruiting (or anything else illegal). I really think Drew is legit and isn't involved in anything out of the ordinary. Maybe he is just a great recruiter.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    I think Scott Drew is a good guy.
    Why?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    Why?
    He has been able to revive a program that no one wanted to touch with a 20-foot pole. That takes enormous cajones. And, to date, he has been pretty successful.

    I like that the bball world has given Baylor a second chance. The only problem is, they look to be screwing it up. Hopefully, Drew can clean up shop.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    He has been able to revive a program that no one wanted to touch with a 20-foot pole. That takes enormous cajones. And, to date, he has been pretty successful.
    That could be a sign that Drew is a good coach, or a good recruiter. It says nothing about whether or not he is a good guy.

    I like that the bball world has given Baylor a second chance. The only problem is, they look to be screwing it up. Hopefully, Drew can clean up shop.
    It's his shop. Everyone there, staff and players, was brought in by Drew.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    That could be a sign that Drew is a good coach, or a good recruiter. It says nothing about whether or not he is a good guy.



    It's his shop. Everyone there, staff and players, was brought in by Drew.
    You really don't like Drew. That's fine. I think he's a decent coach and thus, a decent person. At DBR, we love to pass judgments on coaches / players / teams without ever getting all the facts. A little ironic considering the Lacrosse scandal...
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    You really don't like Drew. That's fine. I think he's a decent coach and thus, a decent person. At DBR, we love to pass judgments on coaches / players / teams without ever getting all the facts. A little ironic considering the Lacrosse scandal...
    I don't dislike Drew. I just don't understand why some people seem to like him. There are only a few college basketball coaches that have earned the benefit of the doubt, and he isn't one of them.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    You really don't like Drew. That's fine. I think he's a decent coach and thus a decent person. At DBR, we love to pass judgments on coaches / players / teams without ever getting all the facts. A little ironic considering the Lacrosse scandal...
    I agree with your general point. I'd just be careful with that "thus" in there. I'd guess that there must be plenty of decent coaches are just terrible, terrible people.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jderf View Post
    I agree with your general point. I'd just be careful with that "thus" in there. I'd guess that there must be plenty of decent coaches are just terrible, terrible people.
    Agreed. Don't know why I put that thus there. Also, there are some terrible coaches who are fantastic people.

    I'll give Drew the benefit of the doubt here and assume he's a good person.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

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