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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2009

    Scenario: NBA lockout...UNC vs. Duke...who has the edge?

    Duke vs. UNC
    KI Drew2/Kendall?
    Rivers Bullock
    Curry Barnes
    Plumlee Henson
    Plumlee Zellar

    On paper...who do you think benefits the most from a possible NBA lockout and why?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Cockabeau View Post
    Duke vs. UNC
    KI Drew2/Kendall?
    Rivers Bullock
    Curry Barnes
    Plumlee Henson
    Plumlee Zellar

    On paper...who do you think benefits the most from a possible NBA lockout and why?
    The owners.

    Why would we be talking about the lockout as if it's a good thing? I'm not particularly excited to see Duke players out of work, especially the seniors who gave up the chance to go to the NBA last year to try to win Duke another title.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    You forgot one matchup
    Krzyzewski - Williams

    I may be slightly biased, but game, set, match to Duke.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    The owners.

    Why would we be talking about the lockout as if it's a good thing? I'm not particularly excited to see Duke players out of work, especially the seniors who gave up the chance to go to the NBA last year to try to win Duke another title.
    Well ... I agree that I wouldn't like to see the seniors not have a job ... on the other hand I'm sure once play resumes they will be quite nicely compensated ... to the tune of as much in one year as many people see in a lifetime of working, so I think they'll be ok.

    Anyway, back to the topic ... hard to say who comes out ahead until we see KI and Barnes on the court and see how Plumlees step up as PT increases. I tend to think Duke benefits more because I think, no matter how polished and skilled the PG, a soph PG will be much better in year 2 than year 1 (see Jason Williams for example, who was spectacular coming out of high school but had ups and downs in a very good freshman year).

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Cockabeau View Post
    Duke vs. UNC
    KI Drew2/Kendall?
    Rivers Bullock
    Curry Barnes
    Plumlee Henson
    Plumlee Zellar

    On paper...who do you think benefits the most from a possible NBA lockout and why?
    Pg goes to Duke
    Sg Duke
    Sf UNC
    Pf UNC
    C Duke
    Coach Duke

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Durham
    More than anyone, Kentucky wins. Between Duke and UNC it is pretty close. We both stand to lose one very talented freshman to the draft.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalBlue08 View Post
    More than anyone, Kentucky wins. Between Duke and UNC it is pretty close. We both stand to lose one very talented freshman to the draft.
    Ahhhh.... but see, in their second year, first year class work (or lack there-of) actually starts to matter. If even half of Kentucky's freshmen are even eligible to play a second year, it'll be because UK hired some HS teachers from Birmingham.

    You really think Kanter (if he is even eligible this year), for one, is going to pass (or even go to) ANY of his classes?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by dukebluelemur View Post
    Ahhhh.... but see, in their second year, first year class work (or lack there-of) actually starts to matter. If even half of Kentucky's freshmen are even eligible to play a second year, it'll be because UK hired some HS teachers from Birmingham.

    You really think Kanter (if he is even eligible this year), for one, is going to pass (or even go to) ANY of his classes?
    Brandon Knight is one of the smartest players from the class of 2014. Great grades, nice kid.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    I don't know, UNC's starting lineup in 2011 looks like it has the potential to be pretty good. I think we have the advantage at both guard positions, but they have perhaps a slight advantage inside - a lot remains to be seen of course, but Henson and Zellar have gotten more PT than the Plumlees and from that standpoint have shown more thus far. Both teams also bring in a ton of talent off the bench, but I think Duke has more depth.

    As for the topic of this thread, I'd have to say that if there is in fact a lockout which causes everyone to stay in school, UNC would benefit more. For Duke the lockout would only affect Irving and possibly Mason While losing these two would obviously hurt, I think we have enough other pieces to make up for it - play Rivers at the point, and rotate Kelly/Adams/Thornton at the 4. For UNC the lockout could affect Barnes, Henson, Zellar, and if all three of those guys were to leave then they would have no one inside other than PJ Hairston. So yeah, I think UNC has more to lose to the draft than Duke.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    I don't know, UNC's starting lineup in 2011 looks like it has the potential to be pretty good. I think we have the advantage at both guard positions, but they have perhaps a slight advantage inside - a lot remains to be seen of course, but Henson and Zellar have gotten more PT than the Plumlees and from that standpoint have shown more thus far. Both teams also bring in a ton of talent off the bench, but I think Duke has more depth.

    As for the topic of this thread, I'd have to say that if there is in fact a lockout which causes everyone to stay in school, UNC would benefit more. For Duke the lockout would only affect Irving and possibly Mason While losing these two would obviously hurt, I think we have enough other pieces to make up for it - play Rivers at the point, and rotate Kelly/Adams/Thornton at the 4. For UNC the lockout could affect Barnes, Henson, Zellar, and if all three of those guys were to leave then they would have no one inside other than PJ Hairston. So yeah, I think UNC has more to lose to the draft than Duke.
    Egregiously, Thornton is NOT a 4. Who do you mean?

    Also, its pretty unlikely that Rivers would be playing out-of-position-PG as a rookie, especially is Seth Curry is in the fold. Assuming Irving leaves, Thornton/Curry would play point while Rivers played #2 or wing.

    That said, I agree Carolina has more to gain because our two most important pieces: Smith and Singler, are gone no matter what happens in NBA.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by theAlaskanBear View Post
    Egregiously, Thornton is NOT a 4. Who do you mean?

    Also, its pretty unlikely that Rivers would be playing out-of-position-PG as a rookie, especially is Seth Curry is in the fold. Assuming Irving leaves, Thornton/Curry would play point while Rivers played #2 or wing.

    That said, I agree Carolina has more to gain because our two most important pieces: Smith and Singler, are gone no matter what happens in NBA.
    Sorry, Thornton = Josh Hairston. Also, I suppose Adams is more of a 5, but between Hairston, Kelly, Adams, MP2, and MP3 we have some good interchangeable parts to use inside.

    My knowledge is somewhat limited but I was under the impression that Rivers is more suited to play the 1, and projects to play PG in the NBA, while Curry is more of a pure shooter who could share PG duties only if needed. Curry would have more experience, which is a good reason to play him at the point, but I wouldn't be surprised to give the ball to Rivers either. At any rate, our backcourt will be loaded even after losing Nolan and (maybe) Irving.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    If there is a lockout, how much would possible endorsement money factor into underclassmen's decisions? If Kyrie has a year like John Wall last year, Nike could give him a few million reasons to leave regardless of whether he's getting an nba check. Unfortunately, I'd be surprised if the same sort of shoe money was out there for Kyle. Hopefully it won't be an issue and the NBA will avoid a work-stoppage.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by dcdevil2009 View Post
    If there is a lockout, how much would possible endorsement money factor into underclassmen's decisions? If Kyrie has a year like John Wall last year, Nike could give him a few million reasons to leave regardless of whether he's getting an nba check. Unfortunately, I'd be surprised if the same sort of shoe money was out there for Kyle. Hopefully it won't be an issue and the NBA will avoid a work-stoppage.
    That's an interesting point I've never seen made. Most people seem to be assuming that no underclassmen will declare if there is a lockout. Although, is it really in Nike's best interest to give a whole bunch of money to a kid who isn't going to be playing? Either way, i think this could only come into play for the 1 or 2 kids at the very top of the draft, and we won't know if that is HB or KI or anybody else until we see how they do in college ball.

  14. #14
    In spite of an expected NBA lockout in 1998, lots of underclassmen left early (Mike Bibby, Antawn Jamison, Vince Carter, and others were all lottery picks). As long as there's a draft, I don't imagine early entry tailing off too much.

  15. #15
    Nike could probably offer contracts with qualifiers. A player could get a certain amount of money up front. Then the rest of their money would be adjusted according to their draft position and so forth.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    I don't know, UNC they have perhaps a slight advantage inside - a lot remains to be seen of course, but Henson and Zellar have gotten more PT than the Plumlees and from that standpoint have shown more thus far.
    With two injury shortened seasons, Zeller does not have any more PT than Henson and both lag Miles.

    Their teams ask them to play different roles, bot overall about same level of experience, with Plumlee brothers leading in games played, minutes played and rebounds and UNC duo in blocks and points scored.

    Games Played:
    64 - Miles
    42 - Zeller
    37 - Henson
    34 - Mason
    98 - Duke duo
    71 - UNC duo

    Minutes played:

    819 - Miles
    587 - Zeller
    586 - Henson
    480 - Mason
    1299 - Duke duo
    1173 - UNC Duo

    Rebounds

    231 - Miles
    155 - Zeller
    114 - Henson
    104 - Mason
    335 - Duke duo
    169 - UNC duo

    Blocks

    58 - Henson
    38 - Miles
    30 - Mason
    27 - Zeller
    85 - UNC duo
    68 - Duke duo

    Points

    299 - Zeller
    248 - Miles
    212 - Henson
    125 - Mason
    511 - UNC duo
    373 - UNC duo

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Cockabeau View Post
    Duke vs. UNC
    KI Drew2/Kendall?
    Rivers Bullock
    Curry Barnes
    Plumlee Henson
    Plumlee Zellar

    On paper...who do you think benefits the most from a possible NBA lockout and why?
    KI over Drew 2 (not smart enough to run UNC's offense) or Kendall (to slow to push UNC's offense)

    Rivers over Bullock (several scouts think Bullock will be average the first 2 years at UNC)

    Barnes over Curry (I would match Dawkin's against Barnes and that might be a push, Curry is too small)

    Plumlee 1, Plumlee 2, Kelly and Hairston push against Henson, Zeller and MacAdoo (Henson is only good for blocking shots, Zeller will cause problems for the Plumlees cause he can mover and MacAdoo maybe too raw)

  18. #18
    There may be something good coming out of the upcoming collective bargaining negotiations.

    Many coaches are lobbying the owners to morph the college-NBA relationship into more of a baseball situation. Yeah, kids are allowed to go straight into the pros, but if they choose college, then they are obligated to stay for more than a year before they are again draft eligible. There are a lot of nuances to such an agreement (e.g., where does the NBDL fit in, are rookie contracts guaranteed if a player doesn't make the NBA roster, etc).

    It will be interesting to see what happens.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by diveonthefloor View Post
    There may be something good coming out of the upcoming collective bargaining negotiations.

    Many coaches are lobbying the owners to morph the college-NBA relationship into more of a baseball situation.
    Now THAT is interesting. I hadn't that as of yet. Did you read this somewhere, or know someone? Just curious b/c I would love for something like that to happen, but hadn't heard about it being part of the current negotiations.

  20. #20
    Another thing to consider: despite an NBA lockout, drafted players could go over and play in Europe!!

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