Duke Football: realistic future aspirations

[duke09hms]

Hey there everyone,

Some thoughts from the last game vs. Alabama:
I agree with many posters about simply being physically outmatched against Alabama, we did the best we could. Probably could have scored a few more points if our receivers had less drops, but playing Alabama and "hearing footsteps" probably had a lot to do with it.

A previous poster mentioned a similarity to Wake Forest and how we could strive to be like them due to relative size, resources, and academic credentials. While Wake is a good school with a great program, it seems that . . .

A higher but just as attainable goal for Duke football should be Stanford. Here we have an institution that is just as academically respected, same small student body of ~6400, faces the same recruiting hurdles, and draws students from around the country and globe. With new coach Jim Harbaugh, the Cardinal have rebounded from 2-9, 4-7, 4-7, 5-6, 1-11 seasons from 2002-2006 with 4-8, 5-7, and 8-4 seasons from 2007-2009. They are now nationally ranked and have the #7 recruiting class (8 four-star players, 13 three-stars) signed in the country right behind Notre Dame and ahead of Florida and Florida State.

Now of course I realize they had a MUCH shallower hole to dig out of compared to Duke's decades of negligence, but I'm interested to hear others' viewpoints and what are the main hurdles concerning how realistic Duke can strive to be like Stanford: a perennial top-25 football program, contending for the ACC title, able to consistently attract 4-star talent.

For me, I think facilities and national perception are what need the most work (any $1 billion donors anyone like stanford got?), but I see this goal as being eminently possible in the future.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Hey there everyone,

Some thoughts from the last game vs. Alabama:
I agree with many posters about simply being physically outmatched against Alabama, we did the best we could. Probably could have scored a few more points if our receivers had less drops, but playing Alabama and "hearing footsteps" probably had a lot to do with it.

A previous poster mentioned a similarity to Wake Forest and how we could strive to be like them due to relative size, resources, and academic credentials. While Wake is a good school with a great program, it seems that . . .

A higher but just as attainable goal for Duke football should be Stanford. Here we have an institution that is just as academically respected, same small student body of ~6400, faces the same recruiting hurdles, and draws students from around the country and globe. With new coach Jim Harbaugh, the Cardinal have rebounded from 2-9, 4-7, 4-7, 5-6, 1-11 seasons from 2002-2006 with 4-8, 5-7, and 8-4 seasons from 2007-2009. They are now nationally ranked and have the #7 recruiting class (8 four-star players, 13 three-stars) signed in the country right behind Notre Dame and ahead of Florida and Florida State.

Now of course I realize they had a MUCH shallower hole to dig out of compared to Duke's decades of negligence, but I'm interested to hear others' viewpoints and what are the main hurdles concerning how realistic Duke can strive to be like Stanford: a perennial top-25 football program, contending for the ACC title, able to consistently attract 4-star talent.

For me, I think facilities and national perception are what need the most work (any $1 billion donors anyone like stanford got?), but I see this goal as being eminently possible in the future.

Perhaps you noticed that Stanford beat Wake Forest yesterday, 68 to 24.

[4decadedukie]

Duke and Stanford have much in common, perhaps most significantly we are among the only top-tier US universities that do not measure our histories in hundreds of years.

Obviously, I like the idea of Duke's developing the consistent the level of football excellence that Stanford has attained. I wonder, however, if Stanford's somewhat unique status as the West Coast's premier university (Berkley and Cal Tech, notwithstanding) may provide recruiting advantages that an Eastern top-tier school simply can never equal (too much competition from the Ivy League, etc.)?

[rthomas]

Elon!!!!!!!!

[johnb]

Duke and Stanford have much in common, perhaps most significantly we are among the only top-tier US universities that do not measure our histories in hundreds of years.

Obviously, I like the idea of Duke's developing the consistent the level of football excellence that Stanford has attained. I wonder, however, if Stanford's somewhat unique status as the West Coast's premier university (Berkley and Cal Tech, notwithstanding) may provide recruiting advantages that an Eastern top-tier school simply can never equal (too much competition from the Ivy League, etc.)?

We already have the best top tier (as in usn&wr) football team on the east coast. We don't lose anybody to ivy league schools, Williams, etc.

I think we need to get a critical mass of athletes who can convince academically-oriented 4 star hs players around the country that they won't be better served by going to State U.

[duke09hms]

Much has been made of Coach Cut's heavy recruiting in NC. While that is good for the positive press it generates, I do think such a regional focus can only be a short-term solution while we transition to a more national draw for the top academically qualified recruits.

Facilities seem to be purely a financial matter - I know that plans to completely renovate Wallace Wade are in motion, and it seems as if the Yoh Football Complex is competitive.

[uh_no]

, and it seems as if the Yoh Football Complex is competitive.

The lack of a 100yd indoor facility is a problem

[mkline09]

For Duke to be more competitive in football it will boil down to two things: facility improvements and recruiting. For those things to happen you need a good coach who is willing to go to bat for the program. Duke has that. They've made strides in facility improvements (finally have a 100 yard practice facility), and recruiting.

Cut has recruited NC hard and many of the prospective recruits at the Alabama game were from NC. He is also focusing on speed which has improved.

Facilities are a tougher situation. There are proposals to build an indoor practice field which is apparently a done deal. There are further plans to expand and improve Wallace Wade. That might happen if attendance continues to be good. So far there are new concessions and restrooms but there is still much work to be done to improve those and the overall concourse area. Any additonal seating also in the long-term plan would require continued sell-outs and that is tough to do if you put out a 4-8, 5-7 program.

It won't happen over night but it is getting there.

Duke really needs the students to turn out for games as that helps improve the overall atmosphere of the game. The students were great against Alabama but will they show against Army? If history is any indication they won't.

As many have already pointed out Duke was probably the worst FBS program in America before Cut took over. They are improving a lot but it is sometimes hard to tell when you have been so bad. Also the basketball program overshaddows everything and when you have that type of success it is hard to measure up.

[fuse]

I'd be thrilled if Duke became a consistent 6-5 team (be bowl eligible) with seasons at 5-6 on the low end and maybe 7-4, 8-3 on the high end.

If we become a team that no matter the opponent we can come in, expect to win and be competitive (all are close games, no blowouts) that would be another great aspiration.

-g

[mkline09]

I'd be thrilled if Duke became a consistent 6-5 team (be bowl eligible) with seasons at 5-6 on the low end and maybe 7-4, 8-3 on the high end.

If we become a team that no matter the opponent we can come in, expect to win and be competitive (all are close games, no blowouts) that would be another great aspiration.

-g

Couldn't agree more. I think it is possible mainly because it has been done and without the kind of support Cut is giving and getting toward the program.

[DevilWolf]

I look 8 miles down the road to a school that has elite level facilities, a large and loyal fanbase, access to massive amounts of money, in-roads with every high school in the state, serves as the flagship to our state university network, and has accomplished absolutely nothing in their pursuit to be considered one of the top 25 football programs in the country year in and year out - all while cutting some major corners in the process.

I think Duke football should run its own race and not look to Wake (who I fully believe is approaching the back-end of their arc of success) or Stanford or anyone for a path to follow. I think we have good leadership in place with Cut and Dr. White, and I think Broadhead is committed to staying out of their way because there is trust that they'll do things the right way.

Away from the field, Cut is working to connect the team to Durham because our group of local alums and fans isn't large enough to support the team without help from the community. Dr. White seems to be doing a good job of working the big money folks. On the field we've built an exciting offense which is a good first step in generating interest. People get interested in shootouts, nobody wants to start following a team who exchanges three-and-outs with their opponents. Over time, our defense will catch up.

The one missing piece I see is I have no idea how football will become part of the culture for the students.

[killerleft]

If we aspire to less than being conference champions and routinely getting top 25 rankings I hope we just give up football!

Seriously. We can get there. But not with the attitude that 5 or 6 wins is reason for celebration and the best we can do.

[Scorp4me]

I look 8 miles down the road to a school that has elite level facilities, a large and loyal fanbase, access to massive amounts of money, in-roads with every high school in the state, serves as the flagship to our state university network, and has accomplished absolutely nothing in their pursuit to be considered one of the top 25 football programs in the country year in and year out - all while cutting some major corners in the process.

I think Duke football should run its own race and not look to Wake (who I fully believe is approaching the back-end of their arc of success) or Stanford or anyone for a path to follow. I think we have good leadership in place with Cut and Dr. White, and I think Broadhead is committed to staying out of their way because there is trust that they'll do things the right way.

Away from the field, Cut is working to connect the team to Durham because our group of local alums and fans isn't large enough to support the team without help from the community. Dr. White seems to be doing a good job of working the big money folks. On the field we've built an exciting offense which is a good first step in generating interest. People get interested in shootouts, nobody wants to start following a team who exchanges three-and-outs with their opponents. Over time, our defense will catch up.

The one missing piece I see is I have no idea how football will become part of the culture for the students.

That's is an excellent reply. So good I rated it which is a first for me. Exactly what I wanted to say and said better. Just a wonderful reply.

DevilWolf might I ask you to comment on this quote from a recent Alabama article. "Students wear Halloween costumes to the games, almost as if to indicate the football games are just a big joke."

I've tried countless times and while I couldn't agree with the paper more and would go even further to point out that they look stupid and I do my best to let them know...I'd be interested to hear what you say. I've written countless post on this and always deleted them as not quite hitting the correct message.

[jjh1080]

They should drop down a level, to the Football Championship Subdivision (FCS).

[Kewlswim]

They should drop down a level, to the Football Championship Subdivision (FCS).

Hi,

Why should we drop down because we got our hats handed to us by 'Bama? No, we learn from the experience. We are competitive with the teams in the ACC, Alabama is a notch (or more) better than any team in our conference. We are just starting to turn the corner. There is excitement in the air. By the way, I doubt the ACC allows its member schools to drop to the FCS. I am sure that there could be arrangements made because Duke is such a powerful basketball drawing card, but the Devils don't want to be "special" members of the conference. NO, we are here to stay and to build and to look back and to rise from the ashes. GO DUKE!

[4decadedukie]

They should drop down a level, to the Football Championship Subdivision (FCS).

I respectfully, but vehemently, disagree.

Roy Bostock, who is critical in the football's financial/development and facilitization processes, recently indicated that all things Duke should demonstrate world-class excellence – and that includes our rejuvenated football program. I strongly concur. Obviously, balances must be achieved; for example, no one wants – and Duke would never permit – the recruiting and admission of academically unqualified “four star” football prospects to increase wins but also to compromise long-valued academic- and stature-standards. That would demean Duke. On the other hand, we should not settle for mediocre football objectives. I believe the Stanford paradigm is worth emulating.

[OldPhiKap]

We should aspire for excellence.

We should expect, in time, to be competitive for division championships and beyond.

We should be proud if our team grows and represents our university well.

I personally will be thrilled with each and every bowl invitation we may be fortunate to receive in the future.



I am not sure that comparisons to other programs are particularly helpful (to me, at least). We Are Duke. And, hopefully, as the program builds that will be enough.

Now, let's beat Army and go from there.

[killerleft]

They should drop down a level, to the Football Championship Subdivision (FCS).

I don't think we should give up the ghost only 3 years after deciding to upgrade our football program. Only a wimp or a troll would suggest otherwise.

The plan takes time, and we've already seen very good results since Coach Cut got here. Two straight sellouts at Wallace Wade would have seemed out of reach a few years ago, which I take as a sign that many people believe Coach Cut is laying the groundwork for a great football program at Duke.

The season is as young as our defense. Bring on Army!

[Reilly]

"We want people to understand we're here to win championships. People are going to laugh. I hope they do. It just adds fuel to the fire." -- David Cutcliffe

http://espn.go.com/blog/acc/post/_/i...cutcliffe#more

[Greg_Newton]

DevilWolf might I ask you to comment on this quote from a recent Alabama article. "Students wear Halloween costumes to the games, almost as if to indicate the football games are just a big joke."

I've tried countless times and while I couldn't agree with the paper more and would go even further to point out that they look stupid and I do my best to let them know...I'd be interested to hear what you say. I've written countless post on this and always deleted them as not quite hitting the correct message.

I certainly understand where you're coming from here. However, I think it's important to keep perspective. Remember that these are kids who graduated at the top of their classes and are used to cheering for a dominant basketball team, and like it or not, there's going to a pride issue in getting a lot of these students to go all-in for a team that's not yet up to par physically with the rest of the league.

And more importantly, consider the current Duke senior class; pre-Cut, they were five years old the last time Duke won more than four games. Between ages 11-18 - the age range they're most likely to have started to pay attention to football - Duke won a grand total of 9 games. When they arrived on campus, we were in the final year of a 2-33 streak! Really, who could blame them for carrying on the ironic tailgate tradition? The administration didn't take football seriously, the team was chronically outmanned and out of shape, and Duke football has never been anything but a joke to them.

Last fall, there was a hefty discussion here on how to get those students to actually come to the games, rather than just tailgating and going home. For this season, I'll be thrilled if the student section is anywhere close to full, costumes or not. I think it will take Cut pulling off a 7-5 bowl year with an athletic returning core of his 2 and 3 star, diamond-in-the-rough recruits, before people really buy Duke football's resurgence. Then, not only will we start pulling in 3-stars more consistently and the occasional 4-star, students will start to accept the institution as one deserving of their unabashed support.

Hopefully, this happens by 2012 or so. Then you'll have a senior class who matriculated last season, and the excitement around the program they saw as freshman will have grown to - dare I say it - pride. They'll pass that down to the underclassmen, and so on, and I can see some of the greek organizations start going with the more traditional seersucker/ties/sundress attire once they view Duke football games as a legitimate outing. If there are still some costumes mixed in, great. As long as they're actually into the games, it will just add character - kind of like some prominant members of this board did during their stints in Cameron!