FB: Wake Forest 54, Duke 48 Post Game Thread

[Bob Green]

Discuss the game here. We turned it over too much. That's the bottom line.

[roywhite]

Discuss the game here. We turned it over too much. That's the bottom line.

Well, turnovers certainly hurt. Unfortunately, I think defense is the larger issue. We didn't stop Wake often enough. Even with a good offense, it will be hard to outscore teams that have a decent or better running game.

I expected the defensive front to be an issue; I was a little more optimistic about the secondary because of recent recruiting efforts which have brought more speed to those positions. However, the young DB's seem to have a hard time defending both man and ball, and also bit on some fakes which left wide open Wake receivers.

On a positive, #33 Scott was terrific.

[JasonEvans]

I would love to hear the receivers talk about whether the rain impacted those bobbled passes that turned into interceptions. Same with the punter. The ball just went right through our hands at some very inopportune moments.

We are great on offense, actually had some balance with a running attack at times today, but the D needs to be better and we must eliminate mental mistakes.

--Jason "I shudder to think about our run D versus the Bama rushing attack... shudder" Evans

[cspan37421]

I would love to hear the receivers talk about whether the rain impacted those bobbled passes that turned into interceptions. Same with the punter. The ball just went right through our hands at some very inopportune moments.

We are great on offense, actually had some balance with a running attack at times today, but the D needs to be better and we must eliminate mental mistakes.

--Jason "I shudder to think about our run D versus the Bama rushing attack... shudder" Evans

I'd like to hear that too. Don't they wear gloves, though? I'm not sure what type of gloves are allowed, but there are rubberized gloves that are quite grippy even when wet.

We did have some balance running, but let's admit, Wake REALLY had balance. 271 air, 229 ground.

[cspan37421]

VT just went down - and so did Boise State's chances of playing for the national title, even if they have a perfect season. I'm not sure they even play if there are no other undefeated teams. That VT win looks like yesterday's coffee grounds now.

[ChrisP]

Look, I'm an optimist and I truly believe Coach Cut has Duke FB on the upswing but...let's face it, there's no virtually no way we beat 'bama on Saturday. Still, it would be nice to at least play a respectable game against them. With the defensive effort I saw today though, I think we'll be LUCKY not to give up 60+ to the Tide on our home field and that makes me very, very sad

I would actually be very happy if we could hold them in the 30's and maybe come out with a 35-21 final score but...that just doesn't seem likely with this "D" (or rather the lack of it!)

[arnie]

Look, I'm an optimist and I truly believe Coach Cut has Duke FB on the upswing but...let's face it, there's no virtually no way we beat 'bama on Saturday. Still, it would be nice to at least play a respectable game against them. With the defensive effort I saw today though, I think we'll be LUCKY not to give up 60+ to the Tide on our home field and that makes me very, very sad

I would actually be very happy if we could hold them in the 30's and maybe come out with a 35-21 final score but...that just doesn't seem likely with this "D" (or rather the lack of it!)

The only problem with the defense is that we are slow, weak and inexperienced. Also, tired late in the 4th quarter, but that was to be expected. While Cut has the program and on upswing; remember we were the worst Division 1 program most of the previous decade and a slight improvement doesn't yield much. My concern is how competitive we can be in the weak ACC. Can we pick up a couple of ACC teams and Army?

[Devilsfan]

All I want fore Christmas is a defensive backfield. Refree is way too acurate. He should never hit his receivers in the hands. All and all I did not mind siting in the rain watching this team play. They're exciting!

[Bob Green]

Chris Rwabukamba is playing because he's a smart experienced back, but he does not have top-level ACC physical gifts.

The quoted post is from the Elon post game thread but I'm looking for responses from those who were at the game.

With the score 14-7 Duke, Rwabukamba made a great play on the ball resulting in an interception. On TV it appeared he had a chance for a pick six but lacked the speed to pull it off as he was forced out of bounds as he scampered down the sideline. For those at the game, was that a legit pick six opportunity? A play which could have given Duke a 21-7 lead. Instead we get stopped, fumble the punt snap, and WF scores to tie it 14-14.

[devildeac]

The quoted post is from the Elon post game thread but I'm looking for responses from those who were at the game.

With the score 14-7 Duke, Rwabukamba made a great play on the ball resulting in an interception. On TV it appeared he had a chance for a pick six but lacked the speed to pull it off as he was forced out of bounds as he scampered down the sideline. For those at the game, was that a legit pick six opportunity? A play which could have given Duke a 21-7 lead. Instead we get stopped, fumble the punt snap, and WF scores to tie it 14-14.

I think I remember how the play unfolded after the INT. I am not sure he could have scored. They covered him fairly well/quickly as he ran it back.

[grossbus]

"there's no virtually no way we beat 'bama on Saturday. Still, it would be nice to at least play a respectable game against them"

no way for that, either. our secondary can't cover the chair i am sitting in.

[DevilHorns]

"there's no virtually no way we beat 'bama on Saturday. Still, it would be nice to at least play a respectable game against them"

no way for that, either. our secondary can't cover the chair i am sitting in.

It's easy to put blame on the secondary; it would be much better if we could put any pressure on the qb!

[OldPhiKap]

I am as disappointed as anyone, but I think there are some positives from the game.

1. Even with everything said above, we were an onside kick away from having the last shot to win.

2. We gave up 21 points on TO's, one of which (the first INT) was just a fantastic defensive play. Renfree was on target with about every throw.

3. Running game -- light years from last year.

4. Disciplined ball -- I only remember the one holding penalty on the kickoff return although there may have been more. But no stupid offsides, delay of games, and holds on passing.

5. We had Wake at one point something like 2-9 on third downs. It got away in the fourth quarter, unfortunately.

6. Defensive blown assignments -- yes, there were plenty -- but we were playing a potent option team and our defense is still young.

7. Renfree is tough as nails. He took a cheap spear right under the chin, and a few other cheap shots (I was surprised at how some of the Wake players carried themselves, although that is a whole different topic). The dude is a clear leader and clear winner.

8. We could have been left for dead at least twice -- when we went down 35-21 in the first half, and when we went down 54-38 and Wake had the ball with about 2 minitues IIRC. This team fought back. Never say die.


Am I happy? Hell no. But I'm glad that I give enough of a damn about Duke football to care and to expect to win. That's been dormant for about 20 years.

The ACC is obviously in scramble mode right now. After Alabama, we have a string of games in which we can prevail IF we learn from the mistakes and stay healthy. Building a program takes time. But this team can certainly finish in the top half of the conference and get to a bowl.



It wasn't over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor, and it ain't over now. -- OPK

[Duvall]

7. Renfree is tough as nails. He took a cheap spear right under the chin, and a few other cheap shots (I was surprised at how some of the Wake players carried themselves, although that is a whole different topic).

Don't be. The only surprise was seeing Chop Block U take cheap shots at offensive players as well as defenders.

[formerdukeathlete]

Don't be. The only surprise was seeing Chop Block U take cheap shots at offensive players as well as defenders.

I watched the game on the wide screen, so you can only see so many of the cheap shots and chop blocks. This is something that not many folks realize about Wake Forest and Grobe. If you talk to Duke footballers who say played in the 2005 game, Wake dove at every D lineman's knees and shins with cut blocks. These hurt like crazy and cause injuries. It got so bad that the Conference office had to request Wake to stop doing this. Wake even went for Renfree's knees on late hits, cheap shots. To me this was very transparent.

I think they will have a tougher go of it against Stanford on Saturday with PAC 10 officials. The ACC officials last Saturday let Wake get away with murder.

Back to the Duke game. We just dont have enough talent at linebacker and in the secondary.

[OldPhiKap]

I watched the game on the wide screen, so you can only see so many of the cheap shots and chop blocks. This is something that not many folks realize about Wake Forest and Grobe. If you talk to Duke footballers who say played in the 2005 game, Wake dove at every D lineman's knees and shins with cut blocks. These hurt like crazy and cause injuries. It got so bad that the Conference office had to request Wake to stop doing this. Wake even went for Renfree's knees on late hits, cheap shots. To me this was very transparent.

I think they will have a tougher go of it against Stanford on Saturday with PAC 10 officials. The ACC officials last Saturday let Wake get away with murder.

Back to the Duke game. We just dont have enough talent at linebacker and in the secondary.

I'm not sure anyone has the depth of talent as Alabama does this year. Have to play smarter, and out-execute. Cut says that we've practiced better than we've played. We need to bring that if we want to have a shot at this.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

It wasn't over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor, and it ain't over now. -- OPK

You're darn tootin skippy it isn't over. We've only just begun. Far too many pessimists populating this board for my taste. Almost reminds me of late February 2001 when Carlos Boozer broke his foot. Next thing we knew there was the infamous "It's over" thread. And of course, it wasn't over - we won the National Championship instead. My friends, we ARE going to beat Alabama next week.

[-bdbd]

You're darn tootin skippy it isn't over. We've only just begun. Far too many pessimists populating this board for my taste. Almost reminds me of late February 2001 when Carlos Boozer broke his foot. Next thing we knew there was the infamous "It's over" thread. And of course, it wasn't over - we won the National Championship instead. My friends, we ARE going to beat Alabama next week.

So, Oz, are you picking us for the NC???!

Obviously there's a lot of frustration as we didn't play our A game today, and - take this as a positive sign - most of us were actually expecting to win this one.

Look, I agree that we CAN challenge 'bama next week, especially in this age of NCAA balance (there just isn't as much difference between a top-5 team and a top-60 team as there was , say, 40 years ago). But if we DO come out of week-3 with a 1-2 record, I do worry about the team's confidence level heading into some truly "must win" games in weeks 4-6 now.

I suspect Coach will be doing some of his master-motivator magic in the coming few weeks.

In Cut we trust.
(Now bring on 'bama!)

[cspan37421]

I am as disappointed as anyone, but I think there are some positives from the game.

1. Even with everything said above, we were an onside kick away from having the last shot to win.

2. We gave up 21 points on TO's, one of which (the first INT) was just a fantastic defensive play. Renfree was on target with about every throw.

3. Running game -- light years from last year.

4. Disciplined ball -- I only remember the one holding penalty on the kickoff return although there may have been more. But no stupid offsides, delay of games, and holds on passing.

5. We had Wake at one point something like 2-9 on third downs. It got away in the fourth quarter, unfortunately.

6. Defensive blown assignments -- yes, there were plenty -- but we were playing a potent option team and our defense is still young.

7. Renfree is tough as nails. He took a cheap spear right under the chin, and a few other cheap shots (I was surprised at how some of the Wake players carried themselves, although that is a whole different topic). The dude is a clear leader and clear winner.

8. We could have been left for dead at least twice -- when we went down 35-21 in the first half, and when we went down 54-38 and Wake had the ball with about 2 minitues IIRC. This team fought back. Never say die.


Am I happy? Hell no. But I'm glad that I give enough of a damn about Duke football to care and to expect to win. That's been dormant for about 20 years.

Kudos to you for rooting the team on. I hope you're not implying that those with constructive criticism don't give "enough of a damn" ... we care, and we have not been dormant. As far as expecting to win ... well, you got me there. I'm realistic, but I do always hope we win. I don't mind so much if there are certain highly talented players we can't get for academic reasons. It's the unforced errors that are the burr under the saddle.

A couple of points you brought up are, AFAIK, incorrect:

We DID get a delay of game. It was on the FG in the 4th quarter, when we had that 4th and 1 from inside the 20, which I and some others feel that we should have gone for. But the FG unit went on, and promptly got a delay of game penalty and turned a 33 yarder into a 38 yarder. Fortunately, it didn't cost us ... this time.

Second, the score was never 54-38. With 2 min to go it was 54-41. Your point stands, we didn't give up, we got a TD to bring it to 6.

Minor points, but it does take a tiny bit of the shine off our participation trophy.

[hurleyfor3]

54-48? Well, it's five fewer points than Butler scored on us.