Is this a serious problem for Kentucky and Calipari?

[Duvall]

Folks, this all sounds like typical Calipari. He's gotten all of this down to a science over the years. He knows exactly how to recruit questionable players while simultaneously positioning himself so that he can deny any knowledge of what's going on. It's what he did the last two times, and he's at it again. I doubt if they'll nail the slippery (deleted) this time, but who knows; if the NCAA keeps trying, they may get him eventually. But, he'll probably skip town ahead of the posse this time too.

Yep. Calipari doesn't have to cheat himself - he just has to make sure it's understood that he's not going to ask any questions if the people in and around his program cheat. He doesn't twist arms to get his players into school, he just looks the other way when they produce improbable fake transcripts and SAT scores, or attend the same diploma mill. He doesn't have to make payments to players, he just looks the other way when they take large sums of money from agents and runners. And when it looks like the NCAA might finally step in, he can always find another school to sign on for the ride and let his successor deal with the consequences.

[Jderf]

Yep. Calipari doesn't have to cheat himself - he just has to make sure it's understood that he's not going to ask any questions if the people in and around his program cheat. He doesn't twist arms to get his players into school, he just looks the other way when they produce improbable fake transcripts and SAT scores, or attend the same diploma mill. He doesn't have to make payments to players, he just looks the other way when they take large sums of money from agents and runners. And when it looks like the NCAA might finally step in, he can always find another school to sign on for the ride and let his successor deal with the consequences.

To be honest, I don't really know all the rules too well, but doesn't the NCAA also typically take action when people execute a "lack of institutional control?" Why has this not been the case with Calipari, whereas coaches like Calhoun have gotten in trouble for it? Just wondering.

[OldPhiKap]

To be honest, I don't really know all the rules too well, but doesn't the NCAA also typically take action when people execute a "lack of institutional control?" Why has this not been the case with Calipari, whereas coaches like Calhoun have gotten in trouble for it? Just wondering.

It sounds like the overseas coach is dying to tell all he knows to whomever will listen. So we should be able to find out what inquiries, if any, were made by KY and who made those calls.

[SoCalDukeFan]

This player has not played or even practiced with Calipari yet.

I suppose that KY could investigate and declare the player ineligible and then there would no punishment for KY or Cal. Failure to investigate properly could be a problem if they let him play.

KY may have to more than ask the player, his family, and NIKE if everything is okay.

SoCal

[jjh1080]

I'm confused, does the NCAA rules talk about the amount of money relating to the size of the penalty? I believe it doesn't matter if Corey only got $2,000 and Kanter got $100,000; the penalty would be the same had they both played for a college team and then the NCAA found out about the money thing.

Kentucky nor Cali will be in any trouble over this; Kanter hasn't played a game for Kentucky so there is no violation that affects either Cali or Kentucky.

What it does do is it puts another cloud over Cali. He has had similar issues with other players and this is just another case. I'm sure Cali asked Kanter and Kanter assured Cali he was clean. The issue is Cali should have done some extensive research into the kid since a prep / high school already denied the kid because of similar issues and he knew the kid played for a pro team. Cali should have known this was going to be a problem and made sure it wasn't before he offered the kid or at least offered and did the research. It appears he took his chances that the NCAA would not investigate or find anything if they did.

Just another case of Cali looking like a slim ball. My guess, he wanted to coach Kanter to show others that he could coach a pro player and not potential pro players. In the end, what is shows is that Cali is doing what ever he can to get the attention of the pro owners, he wants a pro job bad.

No violation, no penalty just looking like the slim ball he is. In the end the pie will be in Kentucky's face, they too should have known, this guy was going to mare their school up.

Remember, his graduation rate is going to be terrible. The one and done's this year will not come back and graduate, there are a few on this year's team (Knight and Jones) that will be one and done's and next year has at least 3 one and done's. Cali is not looking to stick around for too many years at Kentucky, his actions are telling us that. Kentucky will be left with the graduate rate issue.

[SCMatt33]

I think that its outrageous that violations in terms of UK are actually being discussed. The way I see it, the Kanter situation is a great example of how the NCAA eligibility system is supposed to work. The NCAA has limited resources to thoroughly check the backrounds of players, so they can't exactly go dig into everyone's past and put out a list of ineligible players before they sign. They instead wait for players to sign, identify those with questionable backgrounds and then investigate, while the school holds that player out until a decision is made.

Yes, Cal recurited a player with questionable eligibility. The key word in that sentence is questionable. All we know for sure right now is that the guy with the most to gain from Kanter being declared ineligible says that he was paid. The only way that the school should be punished in a situation like this is if the school contributed to his becoming ineligible, i.e. payments from a booster or actively providing contact with agents. All UK has done in this situation is offer him a scholarship, which is exactly the same thing that Washington did, BTW. They haven't allowed to take part in official basketball activities, because they are waiting on the NCAA, just like their supposed to.

If the NCAA gets in the mood of punishing a school for associating with a prospect with questionable eligibility who turned out to be ineligible, then they will create an atmosphere where any player with somewhat questionable eligibility is untouchable, even though many of those players may, in fact, turn out to be eligible. The only way to give those kids a chance is to let the recruiting process play itself out, and then figure out the rest before he suits up.

Just to be clear that this isn't me taking a soft stance on Calipari, my hate for him goes back to being a little kid watching Philadelphia media coverage of John Chaney's well known feud with Cal, which as an impressionable kid, greatly shaped my opinion of Cal. I still wish to this day that Chaney, now nearing 80, will show up on Cal's doorstep with a bunch of his former players as "goons" and kick his I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. like he promised (before anybody accuses me of promoting violence, I don't actually think that should happen, but do find the image of Cal getting his I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. beat and Chaney standing over him laughing quite hilarious). I will be the first to step up to the plate when Cal really deserves it. This time, he does not.

[Jderf]

I think that its outrageous that violations in terms of UK are actually being discussed. The way I see it, the Kanter situation is a great example of how the NCAA eligibility system is supposed to work. The NCAA has limited resources to thoroughly check the backrounds of players, so they can't exactly go dig into everyone's past and put out a list of ineligible players before they sign. They instead wait for players to sign, identify those with questionable backgrounds and then investigate, while the school holds that player out until a decision is made.

Yes, Cal recurited a player with questionable eligibility. The key word in that sentence is questionable. All we know for sure right now is that the guy with the most to gain from Kanter being declared ineligible says that he was paid. The only way that the school should be punished in a situation like this is if the school contributed to his becoming ineligible, i.e. payments from a booster or actively providing contact with agents. All UK has done in this situation is offer him a scholarship, which is exactly the same thing that Washington did, BTW. They haven't allowed to take part in official basketball activities, because they are waiting on the NCAA, just like their supposed to.

If the NCAA gets in the mood of punishing a school for associating with a prospect with questionable eligibility who turned out to be ineligible, then they will create an atmosphere where any player with somewhat questionable eligibility is untouchable, even though many of those players may, in fact, turn out to be eligible. The only way to give those kids a chance is to let the recruiting process play itself out, and then figure out the rest before he suits up.

Just to be clear that this isn't me taking a soft stance on Calipari, my hate for him goes back to being a little kid watching Philadelphia media coverage of John Chaney's well known feud with Cal, which as an impressionable kid, greatly shaped my opinion of Cal. I still wish to this day that Chaney, now nearing 80, will show up on Cal's doorstep with a bunch of his former players as "goons" and kick his I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. like he promised (before anybody accuses me of promoting violence, I don't actually think that should happen, but do find the image of Cal getting his I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. beat and Chaney standing over him laughing quite hilarious). I will be the first to step up to the plate when Cal really deserves it. This time, he does not.

I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that neither UK nor Calipari are going to suffer anything here (except for potentially losing their top recruit of the season). My question was more just being curious about other Calipari incidents.

[BD80]

... Just to be clear that this isn't me taking a soft stance on Calipari, my hate for him goes back to being a little kid watching Philadelphia media coverage of John Chaney's well known feud with Cal, which as an impressionable kid, greatly shaped my opinion of Cal. I still wish to this day that Chaney, now nearing 80, will show up on Cal's doorstep with a bunch of his former players as "goons" and kick his as$ like he promised (before anybody accuses me of promoting violence, I don't actually think that should happen, but do find the image of Cal getting his as$ beat and Chaney standing over him laughing quite hilarious). I will be the first to step up to the plate when Cal really deserves it. This time, he does not.

You must have been too young to get a read on John Chaney if you think he would allow his former players to touch Cal. Even to this day, Chaney would be the one kicking Cal's as$. And Cal knows it!

[SCMatt33]

I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that neither UK nor Calipari are going to suffer anything here (except for potentially losing their top recruit of the season). My question was more just being curious about other Calipari incidents.

While most people here think that he isn't going to suffer anything, there is split sentiment as to whether he should by virtue of this adding on to the pile. I'm supporting the side that this shouldn't be anywhere near the pile, and I'm surprised that this point is somewhat in doubt.

[sagegrouse]

I'm confused, does the NCAA rules talk about the amount of money relating to the size of the penalty? I believe it doesn't matter if Corey only got $2,000 and Kanter got $100,000; the penalty would be the same had they both played for a college team and then the NCAA found out about the money thing.

.

I believe money does matter and so does intent. Kanter allegedly played and was paid as a professional athlete and that was his intent. Maggette received a few bucks beyond expenses while a member of an AAU team. I believe one could be found permanently ineligible and the other, had it been known at the time, would have had to pay the money back and sit for a few games.

sagegrouse

[hq2]

I still wish to this day that Chaney, now nearing 80, will show up on Cal's doorstep with a bunch of his former players as "goons"

Didn't Chaney actually say on TV he was going to kill him? But hey, now that we know more about Calipari, now we know why!

[94duke]

Didn't Chaney actually say on TV he was going to kill him? But hey, now that we know more about Calipari, now we know why!

Yes, he did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6jUpHClybQ

[OldPhiKap]

Didn't Chaney actually say on TV he was going to kill him? But hey, now that we know more about Calipari, now we know why!

Chaney burst into one of Cal's post-game press conferences and made that threat IIRC. I'm sure it's on Youtube somewhere. Chaney was absolutely unhinged.

[enick66]

While most people here think that he isn't going to suffer anything, there is split sentiment as to whether he should by virtue of this adding on to the pile. I'm supporting the side that this shouldn't be anywhere near the pile, and I'm surprised that this point is somewhat in doubt.

What you neglect to mention in your posts are that virtually everyone involved with Kanter knew he was a professional and stayed away from him for that reason. Just because Washington also offered him a scholarship when they shouldn't have doesn't mean that Kentucky/Calipari takes no blame here.

I agree with earlier posters who discussed Calipari's cocoon of deniability. He says, "I checked with him, his family, and with Nike, and none said that Kanter got paid." That is ridiculous. He played for a professional team for 4 years. Why wouldn't you check with the general manager of that team? While it may be in the general manager's best interests for Kanter to be ineligible, it is negligent not to check with the team on Kanter's amateur status, especially when Calipari has the history he does with ineligible players at UMass and Memphis that stripped him of NCAA Tournament appearances.

[4decadedukie]

A few posts ago, Sage indicated that "intent matters to the NCAA." I wholeheartedly agree. Further, values, attitude and HISTORY are also critical to the NCAA. Calipari's documented reputation is to nominally dissociate himself from questionable and/or illicit behavior, much like a Mafioso in the Godfather, and then to claim ignorance of things he either knew or -- just as vital -- HE HAD THE CLEAR OVERSIGHT RESPONSIBILITY TO RECOGNIZE. When criticized, Cal claims unawareness and suggest that is synonymous with innocence; plainly, it is not. Thus far, he has barely escaped (although vacating UMass and Memphis Final Four participation is certainly public condemnation) and Kentucky has embraced him as their “shortcut savior” to return to former-glory.

In the long-term – and perhaps not too much longer – this simply will not work. Calipari is an embarrassment to collegiate basketball and a growing malignancy for UK (and its fans, boosters, leadership, alumni, and so forth). I have no idea if the Kanter issue will be the catalyst that undermines Calipari. However, I am sure it will be another adverse element is a tapestry of highly questionable behavior, leadership and ethics that will eventually cause the NCAA and/or the University of Kentucky to sanction Calipari severely. In addition, I doubt if too many reputable universities will be willing to risk having their reputations sullied by hiring Cal, once UK is adduced to the “debacle list” of UMass and Memphis.

[SCMatt33]

What you neglect to mention in your posts are that virtually everyone involved with Kanter knew he was a professional and stayed away from him for that reason. Just because Washington also offered him a scholarship when they shouldn't have doesn't mean that Kentucky/Calipari takes no blame here.

I agree with earlier posters who discussed Calipari's cocoon of deniability. He says, "I checked with him, his family, and with Nike, and none said that Kanter got paid." That is ridiculous. He played for a professional team for 4 years. Why wouldn't you check with the general manager of that team? While it may be in the general manager's best interests for Kanter to be ineligible, it is negligent not to check with the team on Kanter's amateur status, especially when Calipari has the history he does with ineligible players at UMass and Memphis that stripped him of NCAA Tournament appearances.

Can you honestly say that 6 months ago, when Kanter committed, that anyone knew his status 100% one way or the other? Because even if there was only a one in a million chance that he would be declared eligible, you have to let him go through the process and have his chance. All we know now is speculation and random quotes. No one knows anything for sure, which is why no one related to the eligibility process has commented as to his potential status. I don't think that its negligent to track down a guy half way across the world, when you know that the NCAA will do it for you later. He harms no one else by doing this. If anything it only does a disservice to UK by committing to a player who may not be available. Even if Cal had gone to the guy, and he says that Kanter was paid, is he supposed to just give up on him. Without any documentation behind it, I'd want to find the facts if I have conflicting stories. Since most of the evidence is in Turkey, that process could take awhile so you sign him anyway and you can go back on it later. If you let him go, it's over, whether he was eligible or not.

[4decadedukie]

A few posts ago, Sage indicated that "intent matters to the NCAA.” I wholeheartedly agree. Further, values, attitude and HISTORY are also quite important. Calipari's documented reputation is nominally to dissociate himself from questionable and/or illicit behavior, much like a Mafioso in the Godfather, and then to claim ignorance of things he either knew or -- just as vital -- HE HAD THE CLEAR OVERSIGHT RESPONSIBILITY TO RECOGNIZE. When criticized, Cal claims unawareness and suggest that is synonymous with innocence; plainly, it is not. Thus far, he has barely escaped (although vacating UMass and Memphis Final Four participation is certainly public condemnation) and Kentucky has embraced him as their “shortcut savior” to return to its former-glory.

In the long-term – and perhaps not too much longer – this simply will not work. Calipari is an embarrassment to collegiate basketball and a growing malignancy for UK (and its fans, boosters, leadership, political supporters, alumni, and so forth). I have no idea if the Kanter issue will be the catalyst that undermines Calipari. However, I am sure it will be another adverse element in a tapestry of highly questionable behavior, leadership and ethics that will eventually cause the NCAA and/or the University of Kentucky to sanction Calipari severely. In addition, I doubt if too many reputable universities will be willing to risk having their reputations significantly sullied by hiring Cal, once UK is added to UMass and Memphis on the Calipari “debacle list."

Mods: Please remove post #55, which had too many typos and is replaced with this post. Thank you.

[BD80]

Can you honestly say that 6 months ago, when Kanter committed, that anyone knew his status 100% one way or the other? ...

Kanter did.

Actually, a LOT of people did. The question is whether he would get caught. I think it was Parrish at CBS who quoted someone familiar with Euro basketball as saying Kanter should be "ineligible for life." (Of course, a pro IS ineligible for life) Point is, Kanter has been a pro for three years. It strains credulity for a kid to play in the pros for three years in Europe and maintain an amateur status.

Kanter KNOWS he does not belong in the NCAA, and yet he signed anyway, on the chance the NCAA can't prove he was a paid professional, or that if he was paid, how much for how long. That is dishonest. To claim to be an amateur when you are not is fraud.

Calipari very well knows that Kanter lied when claiming to be an amateur. It is also fraud to allow him to try to play for KY.

For Polly and Anna who want to trot out an "innocent until proven guilty" dog and pony show - this is where the "common knowledge" in the European circuit is so telling. This is like Cal signing LeBron to play. Does Cal know for certain LeBron took money as a pro? A lot of people say he did, and his GM says he paid him, but does Cal have direct knowledge? Just as Cal knows that LeBron is a pro, he knows Kanter is a pro. Why make the NCAA pay to investigate something so commonly known? Why take the one in a million chance that the NCAA gets it wrong and lets Kanter play?

Kanter doesn't belong in an amateur association and any attempt to get him to play is wrong.

[G man]

Uk is in trouble they needed this guy. If Kanter is not eligible they will be hurting. They lost three bigs to the draft. They may have the best freshmen coming in, but it makes do difference if you cannot protect the rim or rebound the ball. I doubt they win the SEC this year.

[BD80]

More from Goodman:

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebask...-Kanter-090810

My favorite part:

Calipari told the Sporting News back in April that Kanter didn’t receive any money.

[GM] Karakas, on the other hand, told The Times that it provided housing for more than three years, food and pocket money and also paid Kanter a salary of more than $6,500 a month during his final season. Karakas said the club gave Kanter and his family between $100,000 to $150,000, beginning when Kanter was 14.

Kanter’s so-called advisor, Max Ergul, compared Kanter receiving the alleged $100,000 or more to being given a scholarship to a prep school. However, there is a major difference: Prep schools don’t hand over cash.