View Poll Results: Who Has Been the Best Rookie This Year?

Voters
20. You may not vote on this poll
  • Buster Posey

    3 15.00%
  • Gaby Sanchez

    0 0%
  • Ike Davis

    0 0%
  • Jamie Garcia

    2 10.00%
  • Jason Heyward

    9 45.00%
  • Starlin Castro

    1 5.00%
  • Mike Stanton

    0 0%
  • Tyler Colvin

    0 0%
  • Austin Jackson

    3 15.00%
  • Neftali Feliz

    1 5.00%
  • Ian Desmond

    0 0%
  • Jonny Venters

    1 5.00%
  • Brennan Boesch

    0 0%
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  1. #1
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    Rookie of the Year Race

    This year, there has been a plethora of rookies that have established themselves as good Major League ball players. This has been one of the better Rookie of the Year races (NL mainly) in a long time. I wanted to get you guys' opinions on who you think should win rookie of the year in each league.

    Here are some candidates:

    NL

    - C Buster Posey (.330 BA, 10 HR, 52 RBI, .872 OPS)

    - 1B Ike Davis (.248 BA, 15 HR, 57 RBI)

    - RHP Jonny Venters (68.1 IP, 1.71 ERA, 18 holds)

    - SS Starlin Castro (.315 BA, .358 OBP, .796 OPS)

    - RF Jason Heyward (.277 BA, 16 HR, 64 RBI, .862 OPS)

    - OF Tyler Colvin (.255 BA, 19 HR, 49 RBI)

    - SP Jaime Garcia (12-6, 2.33 ERA, 118 SO)

    - SS Ian Desmond (.276 BA, 9 HR, 54 RBI)

    - 1B Gaby Sanchez (.285, 16 HR, 70 RBI)

    - RF Mike Stanton (.239, 14 HR, 39 RBI)

    (My vote would have to go to Buster Posey, with Jason Heyward coming in a close second.)

    AL

    - OF Austin Jackson (.304 BA, .357 OBP, .763 OPS)

    - CP Neftali Feliz (3.32 ERA, 33 Saves)

    - RF Brennan Boesch (.269 BA, 14 HR, 61 RBI)

    (Obviously, the list isn't nearly as long as the NL's legitimate contenders but my vote would have to be Jackson, he has been playing some gold glove defense to go along with being a .300 hitter at the top of the order.)

    Trivia!
    1) The first two rookie of the year awards were combined between the leagues, who were the winners?

    2) Name the 2 players that were named both ROY and MVP in the same year.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterRoddy View Post
    This year, there has been a plethora of rookies that have established themselves as good Major League ball players. This has been one of the better Rookie of the Year races (NL mainly) in a long time. I wanted to get you guys' opinions on who you think should win rookie of the year in each league.

    Here are some candidates:

    NL

    - C Buster Posey (.330 BA, 10 HR, 52 RBI, .872 OPS)

    - 1B Ike Davis (.248 BA, 15 HR, 57 RBI)

    - RHP Jonny Venters (68.1 IP, 1.71 ERA, 18 holds)

    - SS Starlin Castro (.315 BA, .358 OBP, .796 OPS)

    - RF Jason Heyward (.277 BA, 16 HR, 64 RBI, .862 OPS)

    - OF Tyler Colvin (.255 BA, 19 HR, 49 RBI)

    - SP Jaime Garcia (12-6, 2.33 ERA, 118 SO)

    - SS Ian Desmond (.276 BA, 9 HR, 54 RBI)

    - 1B Gaby Sanchez (.285, 16 HR, 70 RBI)

    - RF Mike Stanton (.239, 14 HR, 39 RBI)

    (My vote would have to go to Buster Posey, with Jason Heyward coming in a close second.)

    AL

    - OF Austin Jackson (.304 BA, .357 OBP, .763 OPS)

    - CP Neftali Feliz (3.32 ERA, 33 Saves)

    - RF Brennan Boesch (.269 BA, 14 HR, 61 RBI)

    (Obviously, the list isn't nearly as long as the NL's legitimate contenders but my vote would have to be Jackson, he has been playing some gold glove defense to go along with being a .300 hitter at the top of the order.)

    Trivia!
    1) The first two rookie of the year awards were combined between the leagues, who were the winners?

    2) Name the 2 players that were named both ROY and MVP in the same year.
    Not sure about 1; Jackie Robinson, maybe? don't know the other


    2 is Fred Lynn and Ichiro.

  3. #3
    he won't win it, but I vote for Venters. He has been absolutely ridiculous all year, and his ability to lock down innings late has been instrumental in the Braves' late inning magic.
    My Quick Smells Like French Toast.

  4. #4
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    Correct

    Quote Originally Posted by rasputin View Post
    Not sure about 1; Jackie Robinson, maybe? don't know the other


    2 is Fred Lynn and Ichiro.
    Impressive, Jackie Robinson was the first. I'll see if someone else can get the second.

  5. #5
    Hey, at least I got my baby Tigs on the list! You just wait 'till next year!

  6. #6
    Infante is playing really well, and I agree that is Heyward heats up, then he will be Rookie of the Year. However I think it is mostly a product of how he entered the league (with a bang) and not so much his production over the course of the year.

    I think ROY belongs to pitcher Jaime Garcia, who has a 2.3 era, 13 wins and good peripheral pitching stats (k:bb close to 2, 7ks per 9, etc). Right now, Garcia and Heyward have almost identical WAR 3.6 to 3.5. But if Garcia continues to win and ends up with 15-16 and the same ERA he will definitely deserve it.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterRoddy View Post
    This year, there has been a plethora of rookies that have established themselves as good Major League ball players. This has been one of the better Rookie of the Year races (NL mainly) in a long time. I wanted to get you guys' opinions on who you think should win rookie of the year in each league.

    Here are some candidates:

    NL

    - C Buster Posey (.330 BA, 10 HR, 52 RBI, .872 OPS)

    - 1B Ike Davis (.248 BA, 15 HR, 57 RBI)

    - RHP Jonny Venters (68.1 IP, 1.71 ERA, 18 holds)

    - SS Starlin Castro (.315 BA, .358 OBP, .796 OPS)

    - RF Jason Heyward (.277 BA, 16 HR, 64 RBI, .862 OPS)

    - OF Tyler Colvin (.255 BA, 19 HR, 49 RBI)

    - SP Jaime Garcia (12-6, 2.33 ERA, 118 SO)

    - SS Ian Desmond (.276 BA, 9 HR, 54 RBI)

    - 1B Gaby Sanchez (.285, 16 HR, 70 RBI)

    - RF Mike Stanton (.239, 14 HR, 39 RBI)

    (My vote would have to go to Buster Posey, with Jason Heyward coming in a close second.)

    AL

    - OF Austin Jackson (.304 BA, .357 OBP, .763 OPS)

    - CP Neftali Feliz (3.32 ERA, 33 Saves)

    - RF Brennan Boesch (.269 BA, 14 HR, 61 RBI)

    (Obviously, the list isn't nearly as long as the NL's legitimate contenders but my vote would have to be Jackson, he has been playing some gold glove defense to go along with being a .300 hitter at the top of the order.)

    Trivia!
    1) The first two rookie of the year awards were combined between the leagues, who were the winners?

    2) Name the 2 players that were named both ROY and MVP in the same year.
    Mr Roddy, how can you say Buster Posey should win the ROY when he had exactly ONE great month in which he accumulated his high average and home runs. He has been mediocre the rest of the season and declined. Heyward has a much better case for ROY, and he's not even the most deserving...but at least he had two great months and has been consistently better.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by theAlaskanBear View Post
    Mr Roddy, how can you say Buster Posey should win the ROY when he had exactly ONE great month in which he accumulated his high average and home runs. He has been mediocre the rest of the season and declined. Heyward has a much better case for ROY, and he's not even the most deserving...but at least he had two great months and has been consistently better.
    How can you say Buster Posey has been mediocre when he has consistently put up an average up .330 and hit in the middle of the lineup of a playoff contender. Jason Heyward had a hot first 2 months and has recently had a hot stretch of 2 weeks. In between, he had been largely a mediocre player. For you to call him more consistent than Posey is wrong. Power numbers aren't everything.

  9. #9

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterRoddy View Post
    How can you say Buster Posey has been mediocre when he has consistently put up an average up .330 and hit in the middle of the lineup of a playoff contender. Jason Heyward had a hot first 2 months and has recently had a hot stretch of 2 weeks. In between, he had been largely a mediocre player. For you to call him more consistent than Posey is wrong. Power numbers aren't everything.
    JULY 2010: .417 7hr 24rbi

    the other full months Posey played only hit .260 and .280 with 3 total HRs. Now, power isnt everything, but he has been way less consistent than Heyward. Consistently put up an average .330? WRONG, only one month (playing full time) with an average even approaching .300

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by theAlaskanBear View Post
    JULY 2010: .417 7hr 24rbi

    the other full months Posey played only hit .260 and .280 with 3 total HRs. Now, power isnt everything, but he has been way less consistent than Heyward. Consistently put up an average .330? WRONG, only one month (playing full time) with an average even approaching .300
    I must be missing something, wouldn't a guy who has put up an average of .330 with 300+ at bats throughout the season be considered as consistently hitting at a .330 clip, regardless of the splits?

    Fact is, Buster Posey had a great month and just because his other months weren't as great as that one shouldn't make him any less worthy. You brought up two months in which he had an average of .260 and .280, well Jason Heyward had worse months in which he batted .240 and .181. You can twist splits and stats any way you want but Buster Posey has been the more consistent player throughout the year.

    And just for arguments sake, these are the stats they are on pace for in a 162 game season.

    Buster Posey: .329 avg. 19 HR, 106 RBI, .876 ops
    Jason Heyward: .281 avg. 22 HR, 91 RBI, .867 ops

    That being said, Jason Heyward is mighty close to overtaking Buster Posey, IMO, and if he keeps his hot streak and plays with this consistency throughout September, he will have a great shot at winning the ROY award.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterRoddy View Post
    That being said, Jason Heyward is mighty close to overtaking Buster Posey, IMO, and if he keeps his hot streak and plays with this consistency throughout September, he will have a great shot at winning the ROY award.
    if he keeps his hot streak and plays with this consistency throughout September, he will have a great shot at win ning the ROY award.

    -Jason "edited for clarity" Evans
    Don't ask me why, but my mother is making me Tweet. Says it will be good for my career. So, follow my ramblings, mostly on the film industry, @TVFilmTalk

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    if he keeps his hot streak and plays with this consistency throughout September, he will have a great shot at win ning the ROY award.

    -Jason "edited for clarity" Evans
    Haha, I almost put that but I figured there are too many variables for it to be a sure thing. For instance, if Starlin Castro wins the batting title, I think he will be the favorite and if Buster Posey gets equally hot...well...you just never know. It's a great race nonetheless.

  13. #13
    What's with all this talk about the batters. There is one pitcher on your list.

    That pitcher is 8th in league wins, 5th in ERA and barring a stumble, he will have the lowest rookie ERA since Mark Fidrych in 1976. As many wins and a lower ERA than Fernando Valenzuela's amazing rookie campaign of 1981. Better ERA than Dwight Gooden's rookie season.

    You cannot tell me Posey or Heyward have more value than that. Maybe Garcia bombs a start and it is all a moot point, but for god sakes PLEASE INCLUDE him in your conversations. It's not Posey v Heyward. It's Posey v Heyward v Garcia.

    Garcia 4 ROY!

  14. #14

    ROY

    Good point about Garcia ... he deserves to be in the conversation.

    As for the Posey vs. Heyward issue, there's one factor that I haven't seen mentioned -- Heyward has played significantly more games than Posey.

    Going into today, Heyward, despite his injuries has played in 116 games ... Posey in 83 games.

    Given that their numbers are very close -- does the fact that Hayward has played in 30 percent more games offset Posey's slight edge in numbers (.881 to .868 OPS)?

    Overall, Heyward has more hits, more runs, more RBIs, more home runs ... and certainly more game-winning hits. I know that's somewhat due to his big edge in playing time, but shouldn't that be a factor?

    Defensively, educate me on how good Posey is. The numbers I see make him look like a solid defensive catcher, but he's played 31 games at first base and the numbers don't look very good there. But I'm always skeptical of defensive numbers.

    I know that Heyward is a VERY good defensive RF, with a strong, accurate arm. I also know that he's an excellent baserunner -- not so much as a stolen base threat, but as a guy who goes first to third and first to home on a double. I saw him score a key run the other day by scoring from first on a single (he was running on a 3-2 pitch).

    My vote would go to Heyward over Posey today -- largely because of the difference in games played. That could change if one blows up or the other slumps. And I will consider Garcia, if he finishes on this pace.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    Good point about Garcia ... he deserves to be in the conversation.

    As for the Posey vs. Heyward issue, there's one factor that I haven't seen mentioned -- Heyward has played significantly more games than Posey.

    Going into today, Heyward, despite his injuries has played in 116 games ... Posey in 83 games.

    Given that their numbers are very close -- does the fact that Hayward has played in 30 percent more games offset Posey's slight edge in numbers (.881 to .868 OPS)?

    Overall, Heyward has more hits, more runs, more RBIs, more home runs ... and certainly more game-winning hits. I know that's somewhat due to his big edge in playing time, but shouldn't that be a factor?

    Defensively, educate me on how good Posey is. The numbers I see make him look like a solid defensive catcher, but he's played 31 games at first base and the numbers don't look very good there. But I'm always skeptical of defensive numbers.

    I know that Heyward is a VERY good defensive RF, with a strong, accurate arm. I also know that he's an excellent baserunner -- not so much as a stolen base threat, but as a guy who goes first to third and first to home on a double. I saw him score a key run the other day by scoring from first on a single (he was running on a 3-2 pitch).

    My vote would go to Heyward over Posey today -- largely because of the difference in games played. That could change if one blows up or the other slumps. And I will consider Garcia, if he finishes on this pace.
    I would actually think that the games played wouldn't make that much of a difference. I believe that Posey is on pace for having enough games played for ROY consideration and once a player has enough, what they did in those games should be looked at only. Especially if the difference is less than 100 ABs.

    Yes, Hayward has the better stats, but, as you said, it's largely due to the fact that he has played more games. Posey has the better average and is on pace for more RBI while having comparable home run numbers.

    I just think it's too hard to predict what will happen (which is why we really shouldn't look at games played all that much). Around the time Jason Heyward had as many at bats as Posey does now, he had an average of around .260-.270 and .800 ops. Who is to say that Posey doesn't up his average and OPS like Heyward has done? He could also go in a slump, we just don't know. That's why it's best to compare numbers regardless of games played (while keeping in mind their pace).

    As for Posey's defense, I haven't heard much either about it but what I have heard leads ms to believe he is a solid game manager behind the plate. He's no Yadier Molina but he's a solid catcher. I would suspect the games played at first are to keep his legs fresh for the postseason run along with a solid enough backup catcher that warrants playing time.

    Regarding Jaime, I believe he is in the discussion also, I didn't bring him up because the specific argument was between Posey and Heyward.

  16. #16

    posey vs. heywood

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterRoddy View Post
    I would actually think that the games played wouldn't make that much of a difference. I believe that Posey is on pace for having enough games played for ROY consideration and once a player has enough, what they did in those games should be looked at only. Especially if the difference is less than 100 ABs.

    Yes, Hayward has the better stats, but, as you said, it's largely due to the fact that he has played more games. Posey has the better average and is on pace for more RBI while having comparable home run numbers.
    To begin with, the difference is not "less than 100 at bats" and it's not going to be. Going into today's game, Heyward had 506 plate appearances to 338 for Posey. That 168 plate appearances difference -- almost 50 percent more than Posey. And with Heyward batting second for the Braves every day, he's going to widen the gap, not narrow it.

    Posey has the better average, yes ... but Heyward has the better OBP, which is a far more significant stat. And it's misleading top suggest he "is on a pace for more RBIs while having a comparable number of homers" when he's not. What you mean is that he has a better RBI-per-game rate ... but becauswe he has SO many less games than Heyward, he's not likely to catch him in RBIs and he only has two-thirds as many home runs (11-to-16). Heyward has also scored 74 runs to just 41 for Posey.

    Number of games does matter -- otherwise we might be talking about Strasberg for rookie of the year -- so what if he only pitched in 12 games, since "number of games doesn't make much difference"

    Yes, Posey may get hot; Heyward may slump ... but if their AVERAGES remain close, then Heyward has got to get the edge based on total production.

    (and I agree we're arguing Heyward-Posey at this point. Garcia is in the mix).

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    To begin with, the difference is not "less than 100 at bats" and it's not going to be. Going into today's game, Heyward had 506 plate appearances to 338 for Posey. That 168 plate appearances difference -- almost 50 percent more than Posey. And with Heyward batting second for the Braves every day, he's going to widen the gap, not narrow it.
    Well, I did say at bats, not plate appearances, in which Posey is still down by a full 120 ABs. I made that statement without the stat sheet in front of me. My mistake.

    Posey has the better average, yes ... but Heyward has the better OBP, which is a far more significant stat. And it's misleading top suggest he "is on a pace for more RBIs while having a comparable number of homers" when he's not. What you mean is that he has a better RBI-per-game rate ... but becauswe he has SO many less games than Heyward, he's not likely to catch him in RBIs and he only has two-thirds as many home runs (11-to-16). Heyward has also scored 74 runs to just 41 for Posey.
    I wouldn't call it a far more significant stat. A more significant stat, debatable (I would agree that it's more significant) but if it was far more significant, it would replace batting average all together. You also can't forget slugging percentage, in which Posey has the better average.

    When I said that he is on pace for more RBI and comparable HR numbers, I was precisely refering to the per-game rate (or per 162) which I showed the numbers/162 in a previous post. Posey, in a 162 game season would be on pace for 20 HR and 99 RBI compared to Heyward's 22 HR and 91 RBI. (Posey's are different from what I previously posted...first time was manual, but got these from Baseball Reference).

    Number of games does matter -- otherwise we might be talking about Strasberg for rookie of the year -- so what if he only pitched in 12 games, since "number of games doesn't make much difference"
    Did you read my next sentence? "I believe that Posey is on pace for having enough games played for ROY consideration and once a player has enough, what they did in those games should be looked at only." Strasburg obviously hasn't had enough playing time for ROY consideration, so we wouldn't be talking about him for ROY based on my statements

    Yes, Posey may get hot; Heyward may slump ... but if their AVERAGES remain close, then Heyward has got to get the edge based on total production.

    (and I agree we're arguing Heyward-Posey at this point. Garcia is in the mix).
    Heyward's better overall production is directly related to his 120 more at-bats than Posey. Even still, Posey has only 5 less HRs and 10 less RBI. That really isn't out-performing Posey.

    In fact, it's kind of hard to even consider RBI and Runs due to the fact that they are so easily manipulated. Posey has been at the middle of SF's batting order (more RBI, less Runs) and Heyward has been 2nd in ATL's batting order (less RBI, more runs). I feel like the best thing to lean on is averages, in which, other than OBP, Posey has got Heyward beat.

    I think that Posey and Heyward have both put together a great argument for ROY. I just feel that Posey is the better candidate with Heyward litteraly right there. Although, like I said, if Heyward keeps this recent hot streak up and plays more consistently throughout September, the ROY award is his to lose.

  18. #18
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    First, the number of games issue is a bit overstated because of the nature of the positions being played. MLB OF players should be playing every day, with only the very occassional day off. MLB catchers on the other hand, never play every day. There isn't a single catcher in the NL who has as many AB as Heyward. That's just the reality of the position(and unlike AL catchers, NL catchers don't get to take a day off as a DH to get ABs). The fact that they've put up comparable stats(better OBP Heyward, better Slugging/OPS Posey) but relative to their positions, Posey's stats are more superior to the league average(I haven't looked at their value above replacement, but it seems pretty obvious). The fact of Heyward having more ABs may compensate for this, but its a pretty close race between the two.

    Of course, to me its a close race for second. Garcia has simply put up numbers that are tough to match. He's a top 10 pitcher in the NL right now, and not far from being one of the best. Garcia - presuming stats say the same - may well get some Cy Young votes whereas Posey and Heyward won't get any MVP votes. In any other year they'd likely be winners, but not this year as things stand.

  19. #19
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    Not to be overlooked is the fact that this award is voted on by a bunch of humans, sportswriters to be specific. And, unlike computers, humans tend to be swayed by bias. One of the most significant biases that influences votes is hype. Heyward has had the hype from day one of this season, much more than any other rookie in baseball not named Strasburg. It helps that his team is one of the major success stories in baseball this year too.

    As a result, I think Garcia and/or Posey need to outplay Hayward by more than a little bit to win the award. There are a lot of sportswriters who have already penciled Hayward's name on their ballot and it is going to take something quite special for them to change to someone else.

    I ain't saying it is fair. I ain't saying it is right. I am stating a phenomenon we see all the time in sports. If it is a close race (and right now it certainly is) between Hayward and one or two other rookies, then Heyward is going to win it.

    --Jason "sorry, but that is the reality" Evans
    Don't ask me why, but my mother is making me Tweet. Says it will be good for my career. So, follow my ramblings, mostly on the film industry, @TVFilmTalk

  20. #20
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    Here is an interesting article from a guy who discounts Posey due to the "one great month does not make a season" argument. He says Garcia is the best player and would et his vote but he thinks Hayward will win.

    --Jason "the article has a lot of stats, which should make some of the folks in this thread very happy " Evans
    Don't ask me why, but my mother is making me Tweet. Says it will be good for my career. So, follow my ramblings, mostly on the film industry, @TVFilmTalk

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