Donovan to Magic...NOT

[_Gary]

I'm not saying Donovan isn't the hottest thing in college coaching right now. I'm not saying he isn't a great coach. The intent of my original post wasn't even about how I dislike the comparisons, at this early point in his career, with Coach K. My main point was that almost no one in the media is holding this guy accountable for what he's done to UF, the Magic, his good friend at VCU, etc. Everyone just seems to be blinded by love for him and willing to give him a pass, and I'm not buying it. The guy is a serious ego-maniac. His "love" for UF is only about attaining to some untouchable legacy in the future. Billy D is all about Billy D. And I don't appreciate the way he screwed the Orlando Magic. People should be calling him on this, not extending a sympathetic hand.

Gary

[mgtr]

I agree. I take nothing away from Billy D's coaching ability, but his character is really in question. Just like Jimmy V -- everybody raves about him, he was a great coach -- but, he promised those kids at Iona that he would stay until they graduated right before he signed the NC State contract. Billy D may not be another Bobby C -- he may be another Larry Brown. LB is a trerrific coach, but his loyalty score is about -750.
There is a fundamental point here -- much like the one and done case -- would you rather have a flash in the pan for a year or two (do you really believe Billy D would have honored his whole contract with the Magic) or a solid steady coach for the duration? Tough call, has a lot to do with character. Thank God we have Coach K!!!

[gep]

There is a fundamental point here -- much like the one and done case -- would you rather have a flash in the pan for a year or two (do you really believe Billy D would have honored his whole contract with the Magic) or a solid steady coach for the duration? Tough call, has a lot to do with character. Thank God we have Coach K!!!

I also agree with what you say. Interesting thought about Billy D honoring his whole contract with the Magic. One, if he flames out, he's probably outta there... like "fired". Second, if he's wildly successful (nba championship), he's getting offers from other nba teams... and obviously "more money". As another poster said, it's all about Billy D.

Another note... I don't think there's much of a question of whether you take the "solid steady coach for the duration" over the "flash in the pan for a year or two" coach... I think it has ALL to do with character. We all like to win, but there's gotta be a "big, thick, solid" line between solid and questionable character.

[Chicago 1995]

I'm not saying Donovan isn't the hottest thing in college coaching right now. I'm not saying he isn't a great coach. The intent of my original post wasn't even about how I dislike the comparisons, at this early point in his career, with Coach K. My main point was that almost no one in the media is holding this guy accountable for what he's done to UF, the Magic, his good friend at VCU, etc. Everyone just seems to be blinded by love for him and willing to give him a pass, and I'm not buying it. The guy is a serious ego-maniac. His "love" for UF is only about attaining to some untouchable legacy in the future. Billy D is all about Billy D. And I don't appreciate the way he screwed the Orlando Magic. People should be calling him on this, not extending a sympathetic hand.

Gary

What are we holding him accountable for?

What did he do to UF? Made Jeremy Foley fly to Richmond for an interview that didn't happen with Anthony Grant. Wow. It's not like Florida hasn't had an idea for the last year that Donovan might leave after this season for the NBA.

What did Donovan do to Grant? Kept him from bolting there after a year. Buying out of his contract. Breaking his word -- which seems to bug people when Donovan does it -- to his team and his recruits. Grant's going to have to go back to VCU, and as good a coach as he is, there will be other opportunities. All that's happened to Grant is that it's delayed him bolting VCU for a better deal and it's made clear to VCU and Grant's recruits what they should have known -- that Grant's eyes are on a bigger prize.

What's Donovan done to the Magic? Clearly the Magic are the most "damaged" party here -- although they aren't that damaged. Donovan cost them three days in their coaching search. Three days. It looks like they are going to get their second choice -- Stan Van Gundy -- if they can reach terms with the Heat to let Stan out of his contract. If they can't do that, Donovan's not cost them anything in the coaching search. Sure, there's damage to the franchise's reputation by being spurned in this way, and the expectations of the fan base, but that's part of the enterprise, and if they are successful next year, that's all forgotten anyway.

Donovan didn't screw them. He just turned them down. They're going to get their second choice, and there's a large body of evidence that their second choice is a better bet to succeed in Orlando than is Billy.

As much as Gary doesn't get why people seem to be giving Donovan a free pass, I don't get the animosity here in particular. Unless you are a Magic fan, it's not like what Donovan did harmed you in any way. Donovan changed his mind, and he did it in a very timely manner. It's not perfect, and certainly he made a mistake, but he's a human being, and people make mistakes and change their minds all the time. Billy, thanks to his success, just made his mistake in a much more public forum. It's not that big a deal to me, and I don't see why -- where Donovan did everything he could to minimize the damage of having made the mistake he did -- people want to villify him so.

A couple of other points I've seen in the thread. If anything, this is going to help him in recruiting, not hurt him. If the conditions about him not coaching in the NBA for five years are true, there are at least two recruiting classes that he can use that contract to rebut negative recruiting that he's not going to be at UF for the duration. He's also going to be able to spin this in the same way that K has spun his turning down the Lakers.

I'd also argue that three title game appearances and two titles, along with more wins over his first 12 years is, at worst, a wash with K's record over his first 12. No, he hasn't been to 6 Final Fours in 7 years, but no one has a record like that over the last 15 years. In the same way people note that the game and the landscape of the tourney has changed when comparing Wooden and K, the same point can be made comparing K and Billy. Whether we like it or not, the comparison is very fair, and Billy's built a heck of a record -- one I think we'd all be happy to have over the next 12 years.

[JasonEvans]

Should Donovan or the Magic offer full refunds to folks who purchased Magic season tickets over the past few days?

It is an ESPN Insider article, so most folks will not be able to read it, but Jay Bilas just ripped Billy D for this. I've read several other columns that also are quite critical of Donovan. This article has some of Jay's comments in it.

Also worth noting that many in the media are refuing to give Billy a free pass on the notion that he was rushed into a decision by the Magic. Everyone knows the timeline was more like a week. The idea that the Magic gave Billy a take-it-or-leave-it-right-now ultimatum is just not true. The fact that Billy is trying to save face with that argument shows that he knows he is wrong and he is not above just plain lying and making stuff up.

I also have it on good authority that Donovan flat out lied to recruits about his interest in the NBA. He clearly cannot be trusted to tell you anything but what is best for Billy D.

-Jason "here's to hoping the Gators suck next year" Evans

[freedevil]

Jason, I agree. However, I think the timeline was more like a few months than a week. If his excuse is that he backed out because he really loved UF, why wasn't he thinking about that when rumors were swirling that he wanted the Heat job, months earlier?

I think it takes some cojones to switch positions like he did, but he looks like a complete fool. I will find it hard to believe any evidence that suggests otherwise, his "I was rushed into this" excuse included.

[greybeard]

I'm not sure what NBA coaches do, but I know what the league itself does, and it's 99 percent about show biz. Stern has built a grand stage, and boy what a product. Everybody's getting rich, and selling stuff, and, oh, there is some basketball to be played.

This incident involving Billy is just part of the Show, another story to be told. Does anybody think that they know whether the Magic will be better if Billy or Stan or whomever is their coach? That seems to me is a sports issue, and the answer to that one is obvious, who knows? It really don't matter.

Unless you are talking about a very rarified group of guys, and set your parameters of making a difference short of winning the whole thing, I don't think who the coach is matters all that much. Approach to the game, yes.

But, take Larry Brown, Phil Jackson, Nellie, and maybe the guy from Phoenix out of the picture, you chose a guy who can put an entertaining show on the floor and go with it. Let's stop all the fuss about nothing.

[Kfanarmy]

There is a clear and purposeful misrepresentation in here:

Donovan didn't screw them. He just turned them down. They're going to get their second choice, and there's a large body of evidence that their second choice is a better bet to succeed in Orlando than is Billy.

designed to support your point, but in fact he didn't "turn them down," he accepted, signed a contract, bought a tie, did the press announcement...then went home and was emotionally swayed by friends at UF...whether it is immaturity, dishonesty, or stupidity, Billy D embarrassed the MAGIC, wasted time and resources at Florida and prompted two recruits to consider leaving (they may anyway- I would), and played with Coach Grant whom he knew Florida would go to first...They aren't positives, but I don't think any of these a huge problems in the long term. Still he didn't just turn them down and the misrepresentation takes away from your argument.

[greybeard]

I think that Billy would not have helped this team reach its potential nearly as well as say Stan will. So, a part from embarassing the Magic (can a franchise feel embarassed?), and elevating the profile of a coach whose name I've never before been aware I ever heard mentioned, and causing some momentary difficulty to a University for whom he has made millions and won back to back national championships, we are giving Billy a hard time because?

Oh, the recruits. I'd have to think that it is the business of recruiting, and perhaps his current difficulty with it, that impelled Billy to make the wrong choice in the first place. I mean, he lost that guy that everyone was waiting upon to whom, Kentucky? We're talking about Kentucky here. Not Duke. Or UNC. To Kentucky. The one place fast Billy never used to lose, and he lost. If he can get over that, the embarassment of the flip-flop will be a piece of cake.

[Patrick Yates]

Billy D. is a genius.

If his original intention was to stay at FL and Max out his deal, he has succeeded.

Stay with me on this, cause this is beyond Second gunman on the grassy knoll stuff.

Billy has sturned down KY. From a negotiating standpoint, where is his leverage as far as college jobs? Nowhere.

Of the Marquee Programs in college hoops, most are locked up for the forseeable future. Duke and UNC are set for approximately the next decade, and will hire in-house at any rate. KY is set for a while, possibly for decades. UCLA has a lifetime coach as well. Kansas and IU are a little iffier, but they could both be set for the next 5-10 years also.

Where else can he go? He is from the north east, but there are no real powers up there, and few, if any, progams with the assets and the willingness to entice him.

What happend was, BD tried to use KY to leverage a higher price out of FL. It worked, but not as much as BD would've liked. Cause, once KY hired BG, there were no real college jobs that BD was likely to leave for. So, to make his college coach unpoachable, FL comes in with arround 2-4 mill per year.

If you are BD, you know 2 things to be certain

1: FL lowballed you.
2: Every, and I do mean every single opposing coach will be telling recruits that you are gone for the pros at the next opportunity. Ergo, why go there, he might not be there next year.

If you are BD, how do you rectify this? An enigma wrappend in a conundrum indeed.

Here is where it gets, well, wierd.

Billy "accepts" the NBA gig, confirming all of the suspicians regarding his intentions. Every media outlet says that Billy is the guy who can succeed at the pro level. (Rising HS recruits watching begin to think it is a shame that they will not be coached by such a god among men)

He knows that FL will turn to his former asst, the VCU Coach, who is black, in his absence. He knows how well this will sit with some (by no means all, or even a large percentage) of the FL powerful booster base. Ask Chris Leak how open minded some of those fans are.

BD goes to Orlando, with a shifty mien about him. (watch the press confrence if you can, look at his eyes).

Now it gets good. One of said boosters, fearful that FL will hire a black guy, calls Billy and says, "what will it take to keep you?" Billy throws out a number that is less, but not by much, than the Contract he signed with Orlando. Gratefull, the shadowy booster says deal. Billy then weasels out of his Pro Deal.

Surprise, surprise, Orlando includes a clause stating that Billy cannot jump to the pros for 5 years. Oh No! Poor Billy!

Billy agrees, full of contrition and sorrow.

Now for reality. Billy will sign a deal that absolutely dwarfs any other deal in College sports. Billy tells recruits he will be there. Opposing coaches can say nothing, because Billy CAN"T legally leave for the pros, and what other college will he leave for after turning down KY. In five years, BD will say how much he loves FL, and his family will have the kind of roots you cannot pull up. Unless it was for orlando, the one team that will not hire him. So he is going nowhere.

Billy has just engineered a massive raise (above what he was going to get anyway), the enduring love of all FL alums and boosters, and he has answered the biggest knock by opposing recruiters.

Billy is practically a Dark Lord of the Sith for pulling off these machiavellian machinations.

Behold. A new college superpower is truly born.

Patrick Yates

[4xduke]

Having lived through the last two years as a Duke fan in Gainesville, and hearing about the "greatest frontcourt in the history of college basketball" on the radio game broadcasts, "the greatest team in the history of college basketball" on the local sportscasts, along with several other hyperbolic statements about the Florida program, and now hearing Billy being place among the pantheon of truly great college coaches, I want to reiterate what someone said earlier in this thread (I think) - just look at his record before Shyatt came to his staff and after. Look also at the style of play both before and after Shyatt's arrival. Also notice what style Grant uses at VCU - it is the old Billy ball style that may get you a win or two in the tournament, and infrequently a nice long run in the tournament, but it is not a style that will be consistently great. Billy ball basically disappeared from Florida once Shyatt came to town, and it was replaced with solid defense with an occasional foray into the press (quickly abandoned when it wasn't effective). It's hard to see on TV coverage, but in person you also notice that Billy always gets instructions from Shyatt during timeouts before he talks to the team (many coaches talk to assistants frist, but here Shyatt talks, Billy listens and then goes to the huddle). During play, Billy stands in front of the bench posturing for all to see. There isn't much else going on as a coach. He is clearly a great recruiter, probably treading closely all the time to the lines not to be crossed (or even crossing them some would say), but as a coach - not much there there.

In a perverse sort of way, the person hurt the most by Billy's flip-flop could be Shyatt, who could have parlayed (and still may even as an asst coach at UF) a successful stint as Billy's Magic assistant into a pro job (seemed clear from his Clemson experience he could coach, but couldn't really recruit that well) and his own multi-million dollar professional coaching contract.

As others who live in Maryland have lamented about their own state of affairs - it's hard to be in Gainesville right now.

[Stray Gator]

...He knows that FL will turn to his former asst, the VCU Coach, who is black, in his absence. He knows how well this will sit with some (by no means all, or even a large percentage) of the FL powerful booster base. Ask Chris Leak how open minded some of those fans are. ...

Patrick Yates

*********************

Without commenting on how credible the rest of your theory may be, I believe this comment is baseless and unwarranted. I am an alum of both Duke and Florida, and an avid fan of both the Blue Devils and the Gators. I have season tickets to Duke men's basketball and to Gator football, and have had the good fortune of being in attendance at Duke's three basketball national championships, and at Florida's two football and two basketball national championships. I mention all this to provide some context for my perspective--i.e., that I am a longtime fan of both schools, and that I have many friends and acquaintances among both groups of fans, including some of the "powerful boosters."

I can say without hesitation or eqivocation that I am not aware of any Florida fans who were opposed to hiring Grant as Donovan's successor for any reason, much less because of any racial animus. To the contrary, if you'll take a few minutes to visit the most popular Gator bulletin boards (like the Virtual Swamp and Gator Country) and peruse the posts from last week, I think you'll find that Gator fans were uniformly enthusiastic about the prospect of Grant coming back to UF, where he was Donovan's assistant and chief recruiter for more than a decade.

Your insinuation that Chris Leak was the object of derision from Florida fans because of his race is equally unfounded. Chris heard a smattering of boos from the crowd on one occasion in one game early in the season, when he came back on the field to replace the uber-popular freshman Tim Tebow after a series in which Chris had performed rather poorly and Tebow had been subbed in and sparked the offense. I can recall an almost identical incident that occurred in Cameron, which has likewise been overblown by some rival fans and media commentators who shamelessly exploit any pretext to bash Duke. Do you think it would be "fair play" for Gator fans to infer that we Duke fans are racists by suggesting to others that they should "[a]sk Jeff Capel how open minded some of those [Duke] fans are"?

[Chicago 1995]

There is a clear and purposeful misrepresentation in here:
designed to support your point, but in fact he didn't "turn them down," he accepted, signed a contract, bought a tie, did the press announcement...then went home and was emotionally swayed by friends at UF...whether it is immaturity, dishonesty, or stupidity, Billy D embarrassed the MAGIC, wasted time and resources at Florida and prompted two recruits to consider leaving (they may anyway- I would), and played with Coach Grant whom he knew Florida would go to first...They aren't positives, but I don't think any of these a huge problems in the long term. Still he didn't just turn them down and the misrepresentation takes away from your argument.

You're right. He accepted and changed his mind.

I think it's more akin to just rejecting them because he did so promptly. That being said, I should have been more clear about that.

As for the rest of your response, it's not necessarily immaturity, stupidity or dishonesty. He may have just made a mistake, something we all do. To his credit, he let the Magic know very quickly that he'd made a mistake to try to minimize the damage to the team.

As for him embarrassing the Magic, I'm not really all that concerned about that. There's a long list of embarassments the Magic have visited on themselves that are far worse and far more relevant to the state of the franchise than Billy D changing his mind.

As for him playing Coach Grant, I don't think that's a fair statement at all. Playing implies some intent -- which is something all of these criticisms are ripe with. Do you really think Billy played someone he's as close to as Grant? And didn't Grant play VCU and his recruits if he was willing to run off to UF as quickly as he was going to? Where's the outrage there?

Again, I don't understand the outrage here, unless you are a dyed in the wool Magic fan. Donovan changed his mind, and he let the Magic know immediately. The Magic had three whole days where they thought Donovan was their coach. Three days. It wasn't even enough time to have them miss out on Plan B.

[Indoor66]

I guess there is no sanctity in contracts or, even, a person's word. This is a heck of a statement about the human race - or, maybe it is a reflection of immaturity and narcissism.

[Chicago 1995]

I guess there is no sanctity in contracts or, even, a person's word. This is a heck of a statement about the human race - or, maybe it is a reflection of immaturity and narcissism.

In my experience, there is no sanctity in contracts. They're broken every single day. More to the point, especially with coaching contracts, it's a contract that I think the expectation isn't that it will be completed, but instead is a way of deliniating the rights and obligations of each party so that a valuation can be made when the contract is terminated prior to its expiration.

As for a person's word, I think people are overdramatizing what happened here. Donovan made a mistake. It happens, and it happens to all of us at different points in time.

Wasn't it better for both parties that Donovan admitted his mistake, thereby allowing the Magic to get someone who really wanted the job? Or should he have stayed and coached for the sake of his word?

[throatybeard]

As for a person's word, I think people are overdramatizing what happened here.

Absolutely.

I really don't care what Donovan does.

I think what bother me though, is that had Mike Krzyzewski done the exact same thing with the Lakers 3 years ago, he would have been out and out crucified in the media. Donovan is mostly skating on this, and I guess that's fine. I'm bothered with a hypothetical. That's pretty silly.

[Lulu]

um... can anyone tell me why florida would reward billy with possibly the largest contract/salary ever awarded to a college basketball coach? $3.5mil/year for 6 years plus options

...unless this huge contract was part of the discussion that led Billy to revert on his decision, in which case the "unprofessionalism" reaches new highs.

[Indoor66]

That argument would also raise a question of tortuous interference with a contract by U of F. I would hope that this did not happen.