Baseball's Triple crown

[sagegrouse]

I checked the "Stats" page on ESPN and just noticed that there are five players who are in the top five in their league for Average, HR, and RBIs:

In the NL, Albert Pujols is 3-1-1; Colorado's Carlos Gonzales is 1-5-3; and Cincy's Joey Votto is 2-3-2.

In the AL, Miguel Cabrera is 2-2-1, while Texas's Josh Hamilton is 1-4-5.

IIRC the last triple crown winner was Carl Yastremski in 1967.

Best bet is for someone to get hot in the National League -- probbaly Pujols, who has the pedigree and is trailing only by .006 in BA. But don't count out the other two.

In the AL, the triple-crown winner would have to overtake Jose Bautista in dingers, and he has nine more than anyone else.

sagegrouse

[devildeac]

I checked the "Stats" page on ESPN and just noticed that there are five players who are in the top five in their league for Average, HR, and RBIs:

In the NL, Albert Pujols is 3-1-1; Colorado's Carlos Gonzales is 1-5-3; and Cincy's Joey Votto is 2-3-2.

In the AL, Miguel Cabrera is 2-2-1, while Texas's Josh Hamilton is 1-4-5.

IIRC the last triple crown winner was Carl Yastremski in 1967.

Best bet is for someone to get hot in the National League -- probbaly Pujols, who has the pedigree and is trailing only by .006 in BA. But don't count out the other two.

In the AL, the triple-crown winner would have to overtake Jose Bautista in dingers, and he has nine more than anyone else.

sagegrouse

Josh Hamilton, if he stays healthy, could go on a HR tear. In the NL, the Braves' Infante is batting .341 after yesterday's 0-4 and does not have enough total plate appearances to qualify but may well if he averages something like 4.1 plate appearances for his remaining games. See the Braves thread for this detailed analysis by OF.

[MisterRoddy]

Josh Hamilton, if he stays healthy, could go on a HR tear. In the NL, the Braves' Infante is batting .341 after yesterday's 0-4 and does not have enough total plate appearances to qualify but may well if he averages something like 4.1 plate appearances for his remaining games. See the Braves thread for this detailed analysis by OF.

I'd have to agree with sagegrouse,it's going to be very hard for anyone to overtake Jose Bautista in homers, Josh Hamilton would have to hit maybe around 13 homers in September (and I believe that's the record for most in a month?) but it definitely seems highly unlikely with Jose Bautista not looking like he's slowing down anytime soon.

Personally, I think it will come down to a two horse race between Pujols and Votto. I absolutely love CarGo but I don't think he'll be able to catch up in homers.

If I had to choose (and as much as it pains me to say this), I would say Pujols wins it. Right now, St. Louis has a good margin to make up against the Reds and it being September, it is clearly Pujols' time to shine and I don't think he disappoints. Personally, I hope the Reds stay on top but I guess we'll find out how much of an MVP Big Al truly is this month.

[devildeac]

I'd have to agree with sagegrouse,it's going to be very hard for anyone to overtake Jose Bautista in homers, Josh Hamilton would have to hit maybe around 13 homers in September (and I believe that's the record for most in a month?) but it definitely seems highly unlikely with Jose Bautista not looking like he's slowing down anytime soon.

Personally, I think it will come down to a two horse race between Pujols and Votto. I absolutely love CarGo but I don't think he'll be able to catch up in homers.

If I had to choose (and as much as it pains me to say this), I would say Pujols wins it. Right now, St. Louis has a good margin to make up against the Reds and it being September, it is clearly Pujols' time to shine and I don't think he disappoints. Personally, I hope the Reds stay on top but I guess we'll find out how much of an MVP Big Al truly is this month.

Most HR in a month record is 20 (I looked that up as I thought it was 18). Name the player. (I had to look that up.)

[MisterRoddy]

Most HR in a month record is 20 (I looked that up as I thought it was 18). Name the player. (I had to look that up.)

Wow, well I was off (to say the least). Thanks for the info.

Also, might that record have been accomplished during the steroid era? You don't really see those types of numbers anymore.

[JBDuke]

Most HR in a month record is 20 (I looked that up as I thought it was 18). Name the player. (I had to look that up.)

It was Sammy Sosa. Pretty sure it was June, but I'm not sure of the year - one of the years he put up big HR numbers, obviously.

[JasonEvans]

I'd have to agree with sagegrouse,it's going to be very hard for anyone to overtake Jose Bautista in homers, Josh Hamilton would have to hit maybe around 13 homers in September (and I believe that's the record for most in a month?) but it definitely seems highly unlikely with Jose Bautista not looking like he's slowing down anytime soon.

Personally, I think it will come down to a two horse race between Pujols and Votto. I absolutely love CarGo but I don't think he'll be able to catch up in homers.

If I had to choose (and as much as it pains me to say this), I would say Pujols wins it. Right now, St. Louis has a good margin to make up against the Reds and it being September, it is clearly Pujols' time to shine and I don't think he disappoints. Personally, I hope the Reds stay on top but I guess we'll find out how much of an MVP Big Al truly is this month.

As others have pointed out, it simply is not happening in the AL. Bautista has a 9 homerun lead. He won't be overtaken barring a hot streak that would be extremely unlikely or an injury to Bautista.

The Infante situation in the NL really complicates any projection there. As devildeac pointed out, Oly Fan and I have been discussing this in the Braves thread for quite some time.

To update the situation here--

Infante now has 360 plate appearances (337 ABs, 19 BB, 4 sacrifices, O HBP). This means he needs 142 plate appearances in the Braves final 32 games, an average of 4.4375 PAs per game, very doable for a leadoff hitter.

He is currently batting .341. To qualify for the league lead, he needs to average 3.1 PAs per game the Braves have played, a number that currently stands at 403. So, he is currently 43 at-bats short of qualifying. If we were to give him an 0-for-43 to get him to qualifying level, his batting average would be .302.

One big key will be to see what happens when Glaus is ready to play again. Do they give Glaus several games at 3B, moving Prado to 2B and putting Infante back on the bench? That would be huge as missing event 2 or 3 games could cost Infante the crown. It has also hurt Infante's chances that Gonzalez and Votto have been hot lately and boosted their averages. Infante probably needs a decent-sized cushion over the 2nd place guy so he can absorb some 0-for at bats at the end of the season if he does not get to the 502 PAs he needs to qualify for the league lead.

--Jason "Infante missed an at-bat last night so Diaz could pinch hit-- but Diaz hit a 2-run homer so I doubt anyone is complaining" Evans

[Olympic Fan]

as Jason just pointed out, Infante could be the wild card in the NL triple crown race. So could Prado, who has enough plate appearances to qualify and is just a few points behind the leaders.

I was watching a look-in on the Cardinals game yesterday on MLB Network when Pujols came to the plate and the announcer started talking about the triple crown race. Sorry, I didn't get the guy's name, but he made an interesting comment -- he suggested that Pujols wouldn't want to win the triple crown because historically, the great majority of triple crown winners fail to make the playoffs.

That shocked me, but when I looked it up, he was right -- just four of 16 previous triple crown winners have played on teams that played in postseason. But it's funny -- just one of the first 13 did it, but the last three in a row have: Mantle in 1956; Frank Robinson in 1966; Yaz in 1967.

Anyway, fascinating stuff ... while looking it up, I came across two fascinating trivia questions:

(1) Who are the two players to win two triple crowns
(2) Who were the two players who won the triple crown in the same year -- and what year? Hint: the played in the same city!

[rasputin]

as Jason just pointed out, Infante could be the wild card in the NL triple crown race. So could Prado, who has enough plate appearances to qualify and is just a few points behind the leaders.

I was watching a look-in on the Cardinals game yesterday on MLB Network when Pujols came to the plate and the announcer started talking about the triple crown race. Sorry, I didn't get the guy's name, but he made an interesting comment -- he suggested that Pujols wouldn't want to win the triple crown because historically, the great majority of triple crown winners fail to make the playoffs.

That shocked me, but when I looked it up, he was right -- just four of 16 previous triple crown winners have played on teams that played in postseason. But it's funny -- just one of the first 13 did it, but the last three in a row have: Mantle in 1956; Frank Robinson in 1966; Yaz in 1967.

Anyway, fascinating stuff ... while looking it up, I came across two fascinating trivia questions:

(1) Who are the two players to win two triple crowns
(2) Who were the two players who won the triple crown in the same year -- and what year? Hint: the played in the same city!

Ted Williams won two. I think Hornsby did too.


The two in the same year in the same city--my guess would be Foxx and Chuck Klein. 193something.

[MisterRoddy]

as Jason just pointed out, Infante could be the wild card in the NL triple crown race. So could Prado, who has enough plate appearances to qualify and is just a few points behind the leaders.

I was watching a look-in on the Cardinals game yesterday on MLB Network when Pujols came to the plate and the announcer started talking about the triple crown race. Sorry, I didn't get the guy's name, but he made an interesting comment -- he suggested that Pujols wouldn't want to win the triple crown because historically, the great majority of triple crown winners fail to make the playoffs.

That shocked me, but when I looked it up, he was right -- just four of 16 previous triple crown winners have played on teams that played in postseason. But it's funny -- just one of the first 13 did it, but the last three in a row have: Mantle in 1956; Frank Robinson in 1966; Yaz in 1967.

Anyway, fascinating stuff ... while looking it up, I came across two fascinating trivia questions:

(1) Who are the two players to win two triple crowns
(2) Who were the two players who won the triple crown in the same year -- and what year? Hint: the played in the same city!

Good stuff, but as far as what the announcer said, want it or not, Pujols is going to try and perform day in and day out and although winning a triple crown might not be his priority, it might just have to come with the territory of having a great season. So I doubt that he wouldn't want to win the Triple Crown.

As for the trivia, I haven't the slightest clue on the second question but I know Ted Williams is one of the answers to the first. I remember watching a documentary about him around the time of his death. The other guy I'm not so sure of: I know Cobb, Gehrig, Hornsby, and Foxx all have at least one and those are my likely candidates but I can't put my finger on who accomplished the feat a second time.

Good question, Oly.

EDIT - I see Rasputin beat me to the punch, was the second one Hornsby?

[Olympic Fan]

Ted Williams won two. I think Hornsby did too.


The two in the same year in the same city--my guess would be Foxx and Chuck Klein. 193something.

Wow, that was quick.

And exactly right. Williams (1942,47) and Hornsby (1922, 25) each won two.

Jimmie Foxx with the A's and Chuck Klein with the Phillies won in 1933.

Youv came up with those so quickly, how about a couple more:

(1) Name the four players who won the MAJOR LEAGUE triple crown -- leading both the American and National Leagues inb all three categories (this excludes the three 19th Century winners, who played before the AL)

(2) Name the four players who won the triple crown and lost the MVP vote. Note: The first six triple crown winners, through Hornsby in 1922, played in years when there was no official MVP. But four of the last 10 triple crown winners were actually beaten out in the MVP vote. Name those four and the four players that beat them out.

[Blue in the Face]

(2) Name the four players who won the triple crown and lost the MVP vote. Note: The first six triple crown winners, through Hornsby in 1922, played in years when there was no official MVP. But four of the last 10 triple crown winners were actually beaten out in the MVP vote. Name those four and the four players that beat them out.

Williams lost both times, to Joe Gordon and Joe Dimaggio. Klein lost to Carl Hubbell. Gehrig lost to Mickey Cohrane (and unlike the other 3 guys, Gehrig didn't even finish 2nd, he was 5th in the voting).

[MisterRoddy]

Williams lost both times, to Joe Gordon and Joe Dimaggio. Klein lost to Carl Hubbell. Gehrig lost to Mickey Cohrane (and unlike the other 3 guys, Gehrig didn't even finish 2nd, he was 5th in the voting).

Wow, I'm a big baseball buff and I didn't have the slightest clue.

Some posters amaze me with their knowledge.

[devildeac]

It was Sammy Sosa. Pretty sure it was June, but I'm not sure of the year - one of the years he put up big HR numbers, obviously.

June, 1998. I'd imagine there were a few 'roids around MLB during that time.

[Olympic Fan]

Williams lost both times, to Joe Gordon and Joe Dimaggio. Klein lost to Carl Hubbell. Gehrig lost to Mickey Cohrane (and unlike the other 3 guys, Gehrig didn't even finish 2nd, he was 5th in the voting).

Good get.

I've argued this before, but I think in the '30s and '40s especially, the voters were inclined to vote for players off the winning team. I know this has been portayed as hate for Ted Williams or as a New Yori City bias in the voting (although how this happensn with two voters in each league city, I don't know).

Go back and compare Gehring's numbers in 34 with Cochrane and its ridiculous. And the writers loved Gehring ... and he certainly benefited from the bias.

But there's another factor at work that distorts the whole issue. For many years, there was no MVP award. In 1911, the Chalmers Automobile Company decided to offer a new car to the MVP in both leagues. Cobb in the AL and Frank "Wildfire" Schulte won the first awards -- and the first cars.

Chalmers awarded a car for the next four seasons. But since it was inconceivable that anybody could use more than one car, previous winners were ineligible. In 1922, the AL awarded an MVP for several years, but the NL didn't join in until 1924. The AL stopped its MVP award in 1929 (the NL had one that year). Neither league had one in 1930, then the current system -- one each league voted by two writers in each league city -- was insitituted.

Here's the problem. It's clear friom newspaper reports that many early voters were stuck on the old Chalmers system -- and felt a player should only be MVP once. It's hard to tell exactly how much impact that had on the vote, but it probably cost Klein in 1933 (he won in 1932) ... although it didn't cost Foxx who won the same two years.

Still waiting on the four players who won the Major League triple crown ...

[rasputin]

Good get.

I've argued this before, but I think in the '30s and '40s especially, the voters were inclined to vote for players off the winning team. I know this has been portayed as hate for Ted Williams or as a New Yori City bias in the voting (although how this happensn with two voters in each league city, I don't know).

Go back and compare Gehring's numbers in 34 with Cochrane and its ridiculous. And the writers loved Gehring ... and he certainly benefited from the bias.

But there's another factor at work that distorts the whole issue. For many years, there was no MVP award. In 1911, the Chalmers Automobile Company decided to offer a new car to the MVP in both leagues. Cobb in the AL and Frank "Wildfire" Schulte won the first awards -- and the first cars.

Chalmers awarded a car for the next four seasons. But since it was inconceivable that anybody could use more than one car, previous winners were ineligible. In 1922, the AL awarded an MVP for several years, but the NL didn't join in until 1924. The AL stopped its MVP award in 1929 (the NL had one that year). Neither league had one in 1930, then the current system -- one each league voted by two writers in each league city -- was insitituted.

Here's the problem. It's clear friom newspaper reports that many early voters were stuck on the old Chalmers system -- and felt a player should only be MVP once. It's hard to tell exactly how much impact that had on the vote, but it probably cost Klein in 1933 (he won in 1932) ... although it didn't cost Foxx who won the same two years.

Still waiting on the four players who won the Major League triple crown ...

Just to guess: Mantle, Ted Williams, Frank Robinson, and Gehrig.

[tommy]

(1) Name the four players who won the MAJOR LEAGUE triple crown -- leading both the American and National Leagues inb all three categories (this excludes the three 19th Century winners, who played before the AL)

I think there actually were five. One is someone not mentioned in this thread at all yet, and not someone usually thought of as a home run hitter, but he's got a major league triple crown to his credit along with a ton of other incredible statistical accomplishments.

[rasputin]

I think there actually were five. One is someone not mentioned in this thread at all yet, and not someone usually thought of as a home run hitter, but he's got a major league triple crown to his credit along with a ton of other incredible statistical accomplishments.

Lajoie?

[sagegrouse]

I think there actually were five. One is someone not mentioned in this thread at all yet, and not someone usually thought of as a home run hitter, but he's got a major league triple crown to his credit along with a ton of other incredible statistical accomplishments.

Ty Cobb won the ML Triple Crown in 1909.

Nap Lajoie won the AL Triple Crown in 1901 but had fewer HRs than Sam Crawford.

sagegrouse

[Olympic Fan]

Ty Cobb won the ML Triple Crown in 1909.

Nap Lajoie won the AL Triple Crown in 1901 but had fewer HRs than Sam Crawford.

sagegrouse

You are right -- there were five ...

Mantle (1956) is the last to do it.

Ted Williams did it in 1942 (not in 1947 -- in fact, he was beaten in every category by a NL player that year)

Gehrig did it in 1934

Hornsby did it in 1925 (not in 1922, when his .401 average was 23 points lower than Sisler)

Cobb did do it in 1909 -- when his seven home runs led all of baseball