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  1. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by sdotbarbee View Post
    Slow down, I am not saying I don't want Cook because I do, Duvall said Duke evaluated both and Cook was better. I was just saying how I don't believe if you had 1 scholarship and you had to choose between Cook and Rose that Duke would choose Cook. I mean would you take Cook over Irving? I wouldn't.
    Rose is no Irving, at least at this point.

  2. #542
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Quote Originally Posted by Cockabeau View Post
    I see people on here railing about the youtube videos. Granted youtube video aren't a good indicator for defense,passing,shooting are anything else for that matter becuase they are highlight videos

    However, I can take ONE thing from youtube video. Pure athleticism. For example,I can watch two minutes of Rodney Purvis and tell that he is very quick,very explosive and can jump high.

    I can watch Quinn Cook on youtube and see that he is not all that quick,athletic or explosive. He relies on guile and toughness. Is guile and toughness for a starting PG good enough at Duke when EVERYONE plays their A game against you? At some point you have to have talent and athleticism or at least size,right?
    Quote Originally Posted by jafarr1 View Post
    See also Smith, Dean and Hurley, Bobby.
    Would you have said the same about the above point guard if you had been poring over his highlight videos?
    “Those two kids, they’re champions,” Krzyzewski said of his senior leaders. “They’re trying to teach the other kids how to become that, and it’s a long road to become that.”

  3. #543
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by NSDukeFan View Post
    Sorry I meant to say Scout (as my understanding as they are better for basketball) in my above post, which ranks LJ Rose as the #1 PG and #19 recruit overall, while as Duvall mentioned Rivals has him at #28.
    Scout has Rose as #1 overall.

    http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75...cfg=bb&yr=2012

  4. #544
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Quote Originally Posted by sdotbarbee View Post
    Hit TOP. Under the all section, they list players by position rankings rather than actual class rankings. Since Rose is the #1 pg, hes automatically at the top. If you keep reading down, you'll notice that it goes by PG, SG, SF, PF, C for the next like 20 players, which would be really strange to have.

  5. #545
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Washington
    Quote Originally Posted by sdotbarbee View Post
    I think you are misreading. Scout has him @ 19 overall, #1 at his position. The page you linked to has 5 #1s.

    http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75...pid=88&yr=2012

  6. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by sdotbarbee View Post
    It is incredibly annoying! I understand #1 and how it works, are you looking at the right year because Rose is '12.

    http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75...cfg=bb&yr=2012
    Yes. As you can see, Rose is #19 in the overall ranking.

  7. #547
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    So I was wondering, how does Quinn Cook compare to Paulus coming in freshmen year. Sorry if it's a stupid question but I haven't seen Cook play besides for in highlights. Seems to me they have about the same level of physical gifts and both are gifted passers that can shoot the 3.

  8. #548
    Quote Originally Posted by sdotbarbee View Post
    Slow down, I am not saying I don't want Cook because I do, Duvall said Duke evaluated both and Cook was better. I was just saying how I don't believe if you had 1 scholarship and you had to choose between Cook and Rose that Duke would choose Cook. I mean would you take Cook over Irving? I wouldn't.
    Well, Duke did exactly what you can't believe they did. One of the players you're speaking about has a scholarship offer and the other doesn't.

    Trust me, Duke does not base their recruiting decisions based on where Scout, Rivals, or ESPN ranks players.

  9. #549
    Quote Originally Posted by sdotbarbee View Post
    Slow down, I am not saying I don't want Cook because I do, Duvall said Duke evaluated both and Cook was better. I was just saying how I don't believe if you had 1 scholarship and you had to choose between Cook and Rose that Duke would choose Cook. I mean would you take Cook over Irving? I wouldn't.
    I'm not sure I follow your logic. First, Irving was available a year ahead of Cook, so of course it makes sense under my "bird in hand" analogy to bring in Irving in 2010. Second, I said I would NOT pass on a player of equal or slightly less ability in order for a chance at a possibly better player the following year. So what makes you think I would pass on a better player (assuming for argument's sake that Kyrie is better than Quinn)??? Maybe you misread my post, or you did not understand it. Third, we don't have only one scholarship left for 2012.

    Had Coach K followed your apparent approach (of holding out for a higher ranked player the next year), we would have passed on Irving for a chance to sign Teague. How would that have worked out for us?

  10. #550
    Quote Originally Posted by Cockabeau View Post
    I can watch Quinn Cook on youtube and see that he is not all that quick,athletic or explosive. He relies on guile and toughness. Is guile and toughness for a starting PG good enough at Duke when EVERYONE plays their A game against you?
    Maybe you can ask this guy...


  11. #551
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    2011 is a much deeper and better class for point guards than 2012. That's why the #1 PG in 2012 is ranked around the same spot as the #4 PG in 2011. (The reverse is true with post players, which is why it makes sense to grab a point guard this year and a big man next year.)
    There you go again using logic and facts.
    Bob Green
    United States Navy (Retired)
    @JBobGreen

  12. #552
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Cockabeau View Post
    I see people on here railing about the youtube videos. Granted youtube video aren't a good indicator for defense,passing,shooting are anything else for that matter becuase they are highlight videos

    However, I can take ONE thing from youtube video. Pure athleticism. For example,I can watch two minutes of Rodney Purvis and tell that he is very quick,very explosive and can jump high.

    I can watch Quinn Cook on youtube and see that he is not all that quick,athletic or explosive. He relies on guile and toughness. Is guile and toughness for a starting PG good enough at Duke when EVERYONE plays their A game against you? At some point you have to have talent and athleticism or at least size,right?
    Yes, athleticism should play into our analysis of recruits. But when that is the ONLY thing that you can extract from highlight videos, you have to grant that there are a lot of other factors that simply cannot be computed. Consider the fact that Marquis Teague, who is widely considered to be a highly athletic point guard, actually started behind the less athletic Cook when they played together recently (on the USA U17 team, I believe). Cook also simply performed better than Teague in almost every stat category. The implication here is that, while Cook may not be as athletic, the other aspects of his game must be much more advanced.

  13. #553
    Quote Originally Posted by Jderf View Post
    Yes, athleticism should play into our analysis of recruits. But when that is the ONLY thing that you can extract from highlight videos, you have to grant that there are a lot of other factors that simply cannot be computed. Consider the fact that Marquis Teague, who is widely considered to be a highly athletic point guard, actually started behind the less athletic Cook when they played together recently (on the USA U17 team, I believe). Cook also simply performed better than Teague in almost every stat category. The implication here is that, while Cook may not be as athletic, the other aspects of his game must be much more advanced.
    i agree with you 100% but id like to have both.... kinda like Kyrie.

  14. #554
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    raleigh nc
    Not every player we recruit should be one-and-done type talent. I think Quinn is the perfect type of player we should covet at Duke. Someone with game to someday play in the NBA just not after one year. It takes all types of players to win a championship and IMO the best type of players are like Quinn.

    Two obvious examples would be last years' team and UNC's 09 team. Both of them were a good mixture of talent and experience with players who had NBA talent yet didn't leave school too early before they could develop into championship level players together.

    Quinn's game will probably evolve like Nolan's (I know they play diff positions) With one or two years of mediorcre play, not great but eventually evolving into an All-ACC type of player.

  15. #555
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeBlueNV View Post
    Not every player we recruit should be one-and-done type talent. I think Quinn is the perfect type of player we should covet at Duke. Someone with game to someday play in the NBA just not after one year. It takes all types of players to win a championship and IMO the best type of players are like Quinn.
    I definitely agree with this. Remarkable talent and athletic ability is great, but it will only get you so far (see Kentucky), and a team of very good, but not great players will probably only get you so far (see the majority of sweet 16 teams in recent years). I think the sweet spot is having one or two players with remarkable talent, combined with multiple players with very good talent and veteran experience. I suspect most National Champions in recent memory are comprised of this combination. So, whether your tremendously talented players come in the form of PG (e.g., Irving, Williams), PF (e.g., Boozer, Brand, etc.), or any other position, I think the combination is a critical component. I'm not sure whether Cook represents a 1-2 year player, or a 4 years stalwart, but there is certainly room for a guy like him on a team with NC aspirations.
    Last edited by Newton_14; 10-29-2010 at 10:02 PM. Reason: Fixed quote tag

  16. #556
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Lincoln Ne
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeBlueNV View Post
    Not every player we recruit should be one-and-done type talent. I think Quinn is the perfect type of player we should covet at Duke. Someone with game to someday play in the NBA just not after one year. It takes all types of players to win a championship and IMO the best type of players are like Quinn.

    Two obvious examples would be last years' team and UNC's 09 team. Both of them were a good mixture of talent and experience with players who had NBA talent yet didn't leave school too early before they could develop into championship level players together.

    Quinn's game will probably evolve like Nolan's (I know they play diff positions) With one or two years of mediorcre play, not great but eventually evolving into an All-ACC type of player.
    Not that I agree with some of these anti-Cook guys, but I am not a fan of the Nolan comparison. Nolan is more explosive and was better at getting to the rim. That being said I agree teams are built with all types of players.

  17. #557
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    If it's true that he's not all that quick, athletic and explosive (and I don't know that it is) then ol'roy goes after him and hypothetically gets him as he looks to recruit over Marshall who he recruited over LD2 he'll immediately start looking to recruit over Quinn. Some kind of terrific guy that ol'roy. In roy they trust? I hope they're smarter than that.

  18. #558
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    raleigh nc
    Quote Originally Posted by G man View Post
    Not that I agree with some of these anti-Cook guys, but I am not a fan of the Nolan comparison. Nolan is more explosive and was better at getting to the rim. That being said I agree teams are built with all types of players.
    Sorry I should have clarified a little better. I dont think their games are similar at all. What I ment when comparing the two was that they may not wow us in thier first few years in school but IMO Cook, like Nolan, will become a great player by his JR/SR year. Hopefully at Duke.

  19. #559
    Nolan struggled mightily during his first two seasons... he was not exactly the athlete that G was, but he was the most athletic guy on last year's team, so that could be why we see him as lightning quick right now. I don't remember thinking he was insanely quick or dominant as an athlete in his first two years, so Quinn may not be as far off as some may think to the Nolan comparison. I think Nolan is a good college athlete who has grown into "great" as a player, and gotten in top shape as an athlete. He is essentially just a good college athlete with these new alterations to make him the great player that he is now (and mental side of his development has a huge amount to do with all of these new dimensions to Nolan).

  20. #560

    athletic

    being the most athletic player on last years team was earned by having out two most athletic players leave the program, Henderson via the draft after his jr. year and Elliott Williams via the transfer route to Memphis. You would think losing these two "freakish" athletes would have hurt our chances, instead it made our guards realize they had to play smart and use their talents to the max, i think they did. Being athletic is nice being a player even better.

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